1. #1

    Raid Composition

    In my 10man, we are progressing in Heroics. My raid composition is as follows

    Mage (fire)
    Warlock (destro/demo)
    Deathknight (Frost)
    Hunter (Marsman)
    Priest (shadow)
    Paladin (Prot)
    Paladin (Holy)
    Preist (Holy/Disc)
    Druid (Bear tank)
    Shaman (Resto)

    I dont know why the DK refuses to go Unholy, and i also believe that the preist should be replaced by an elemental shaman.
    but since that is not the case, my question to all of you experienced warlock raiders out there is:

    Would i benefit the raid better if i were to go demo full time provideing the 10% spellpower buff?
    seeing as there is no Ele Shaman and i only go Demo for Maloriak (SP?)
    Wolfxtears / Warlock / US / Ysera / Premonition

  2. #2
    I would say Demo for aoe fights and affli/destro for the rest. That's my opinion though, I don't have any numbers for you.

  3. #3
    The 10% buff is far more than worth it for that group, considering you've got basically all of your dps (other than the Hunter, but even then, Stings deal Nature damage) dealing significant magic damage.
    As for the DK not going Unholy, I might be wrong here, but last time I checked the magic damage debuff is unique so Ebon Plague wouldn't stack with CoE. Having said that, it's a lot easier for him to spread it (unless the lock in question is Affliction, with Jinx).
    Last edited by Zenikoetsu; 2011-03-22 at 06:23 PM. Reason: Clarification

  4. #4
    Going demo only brings the buff up by 4%.

    I would swap according to the encounter...orrrrrrr, play whatever you perform the best.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome Beyz's Avatar
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    4% SP is rougly 300 spell power, which can be translated into roughly 700-800 DPS for most caster classes. So depending on how much dps you individually lose compared to how much the raid gains would bring you the answer.

    Theoretically your raid would gain overall by doing so, but this is mostly due to the fact that healers benefit as well

    Going by statistical data you would lose (3000 dps - 800 dps) 2200 dps assuming that you're currently playing each specc to it's potential performance, where as you mage and shadow priest would gain about 1500 total. So 700 raid dps lost. But since some of the other classes in your raid benefit a little from spell power as well it should be around the same. So only healing is improved.
    Last edited by Beyz; 2011-03-22 at 10:49 PM.

  6. #6
    I didn't realize the mage was fire...i think only lolcane mages bring the 6% buff anyway.

  7. #7
    Brewmaster Zinnin's Avatar
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    All mages have the 6% rolled into their int buff im pretty sure.

    Arcane does give a 3% dmg buff though.

  8. #8
    If you're competent with both specs, it's going to be roughly the same. But every fight requires something different and there are just some fights demo sucks at, so I go with destro, and vice versa. Most of the time I play destro when our shaman plays resto but we don't have the luxury of a fire mage and our shaman doesn't always raid, and when he does he often plays enhancement.

    If we're working on a fight where healers are struggling, I'll play demo always. There's no point trying to get extra damage out when it's your healing that is preventing you from progressing. If the fight requires a serious burn phase under 25%, I'll play demo. You get the idea.

  9. #9
    i would be inclined to say 4% isnt much to lose in a 10 man but if you play all specs equally why not take the best raid buff then. personally i get a big enough jump out of goin destruction that its not worth the 4% sp for the one other caster in my group. (and the healers say they dont care about 4%, they want shit dead ASAP)

    i realize this may mean im terrible at demo or something in the eyes of some reading, but i like to tell myself it just means i rock at destruction. just let me pretend that even if it is not the case. lol

  10. #10
    For some people they just can't get more out of destro so the loss isn't worth it. For others it wouldn't be worth the 4% extra because they just can't get more out of demo. Really to get the best comparison you need to play both specs to the best of your abilities to know which is truly the best for your group. Player skill and familiarity/comfort with different specs will tell more than general spec potential which can make things a little confusing when trying to choose.If you're willing to experiment and it's always good to know both specs as well as you can (you can use it to your advantage for certain fights) then I highly recommend trying the other spec for a few raids and trying your best to do well with it to get a good idea what is best for your group.

    And most importantly, don't force yourself to play a spec you don't enjoy, after weeks of persistence. It isn't worth it.

  11. #11
    Jenerena is on the money. pretty much the best answer right there. /salute

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenerena View Post
    For some people they just can't get more out of destro so the loss isn't worth it. For others it wouldn't be worth the 4% extra because they just can't get more out of demo. Really to get the best comparison you need to play both specs to the best of your abilities to know which is truly the best for your group. Player skill and familiarity/comfort with different specs will tell more than general spec potential which can make things a little confusing when trying to choose.If you're willing to experiment and it's always good to know both specs as well as you can (you can use it to your advantage for certain fights) then I highly recommend trying the other spec for a few raids and trying your best to do well with it to get a good idea what is best for your group.

    And most importantly, don't force yourself to play a spec you don't enjoy, after weeks of persistence. It isn't worth it.

    i honestly believe i play destro to perfection. not trying to toot my horn or anything, but i honestly believe i can abuse the spec to the fullest for every encounter. having said that, the other night we brought an ele shaman in lieu of a missing dps. that 4% made my dps higher than without, by a huge margin. i am sorry to say that logs were not taken because we did it all on normal, and decided that it wasnt worth bothering with. now i am comparing heroic attempts with normal mode ones, and i may be wrong doing so.
    Of course i understand that if we have a heavy caster dps raid, then demo is best for the Comp, but i will none the less take this advice and apply it, because i honestly see no other alternative. thank you good sir for your thoughts.
    Wolfxtears / Warlock / US / Ysera / Premonition

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by HoldTheOnion View Post
    i would be inclined to say 4% isnt much to lose in a 10 man but if you play all specs equally why not take the best raid buff then. personally i get a big enough jump out of goin destruction that its not worth the 4% sp for the one other caster in my group. (and the healers say they dont care about 4%, they want shit dead ASAP)

    i realize this may mean im terrible at demo or something in the eyes of some reading, but i like to tell myself it just means i rock at destruction. just let me pretend that even if it is not the case. lol
    ROFL I've been hearing a lot of about this type of discussion pertaining to demo locks "it's only 4% more than the mage buff"

    People go to great lengths to min/max just to gain an extra 1% but then easily dismiss the demo/ele 4% spell power buff as not worth it.

    I'm gonna pull some numbers out of my ass here, but it's a pretty safe bet to say, that the 4% more SP from demo is more than what you get from enchants. 4% is huge. How many 1% attempts has everyone had on bosses. 4% more damage can be the difference between killing the boss, and wiping.

    The real question is does your raid NEED that 4%.

    BTW why would you swap out the strongest raid healer in the game (holy priest) for a DPS?

  14. #14
    If you have two other casters in your raid, they will gain about 600 dps each theoretically (so 1200 raid dps). Your healers will gain about 250-300 spell power each. Put together that's quite a bit of extra throughput. However, on some fights demo may be more than 1200 dps behind as destro (due to multi-dotting, mobility, etc) so it's a fight-by-fight judgement. 4% may seem a no-brainer but you forget that demo's potential see-saws depending on the fight and many players who have been playing destro for a long time may fall on their face a few times trying to get the most out of demo, negating the benefit. That's why I say get good at both and use your judgement to work out what your group really needs for each encounter. Some fights don't need high overall damage for the entire fight to beat it, but more very high damage at certain times and demo can be very selective with their damage output, suiting this perfectly.
    Last edited by Jenerena; 2011-03-25 at 09:19 AM.

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