Why is Camo so terrible in PVE?

[Lilyana]

Yes, it's horrible. Like Flare didn't screw me over. It's this ongoing hunter vs rogue. Trap vs Disarm trap, flare vs range of sap etc. since lowlevel duels. The Beast Within vs Stunlock.

I'd say these are the most vs-ing classes in terms of tools.

Well, if you don't like Camo, i wouldn't complain they took it away Stealth is for rogues, not hunters. A gift that makes rogues what they are.

Smokebomb + vanish works. However, hunters have a counter for that too: snake traps. It keeps the hunter in combat and the rogue probably will trigger the snakes. So the cycle begins all over again until someone breaks the status quo. But is a status quo that bad?

[Rukentuts]

Camo is a "decrease aggro radius" (while moving) like Mind Soothe. It isn't stealth. Stealth is more powerful.

[Zanez]

Wouldn't mind seeing a use for this in raids tbh lol.

[Arrowstormen]

Camo is a "decrease aggro radius" (while moving) like Mind Soothe. It isn't stealth. Stealth is more powerful.

but it is close to stealth. its still strong for laying traps.

[Deleted]

Yeah, like mushrooms, Time Warp, Leap of faith, Spiritwalker's Grace all turned out to be super duper awesome. I don't know about the other level 85 abilities because I haven't played those classes at 85 yet.

[Seditian]

Spiritwalker's Grace

That's just you, if you seriously think Spiritwalker's Grace is useless, just unsubscribe please.

[Deleted]

That's just you, if you seriously think Spiritwalker's Grace is useless, just unsubscribe please.

it proves reliable in very few situations. And yes, I have an elemental shaman. The cooldown is way too high while the duration has been increased that didn't solve anything. A 1m duration is way too much for PvE situations and high movement fights. If you played an elemental shaman on fights like V&T you'd surely agree with me.

And I didn't say those abilities were useless. I said they weren't awesome either. Just like Camouflage turns out to be amusing and handy in quite some situations.

[Minky]

So ok camo is good against rogue, so it is totally ok that our ability is good against rogues but totally useless against other classes? I always use camo when I go into arena in the start but as everyone can see you when you move no one has problem finding me

It's far from useless against other classes.
It gives you range supremacy against all other ranged classes. Hunters stick Mages and Warlocks like pincushions. Let your partner initiate [If warrior, charge in and start the storm of damage], break Camo with a shot, start damaging, send pet, Web/Entrapment->Unhealable damage.

---------- Post added 2011-03-25 at 04:59 PM ----------

Yeah, like mushrooms, Time Warp, Leap of faith, Spiritwalker's Grace all turned out to be super duper awesome. I don't know about the other level 85 abilities because I haven't played those classes at 85 yet.

I really hope this poster's trying to troll.
Time Warp and SWG are both amazing abilities in PvE, while SWG remains amazing in PvP.
Just be thankful Camouflage is consistent in its usefulness, if you use it right.
Gee..That's a lot like smoke bomb. A long cooldown for a short duration where positioning and timing is everything.

Thankfully, the Hunter class has complications in its design - so the only thing you need to worry about with Camouflage is that you need to cast it.

---------- Post added 2011-03-25 at 05:00 PM ----------

Smokebomb + vanish works. However, hunters have a counter for that too: snake traps. It keeps the hunter in combat and the rogue probably will trigger the snakes. So the cycle begins all over again until someone breaks the status quo. But is a status quo that bad?

Smoke Bomb+Vanish?
I think you meant Smoke Bomb+Stealth - which doesen't work because Smoke Bomb is 5s, and Combat time is 6s.
I'd love to queue against the Rogues who use Smoke Bomb into Vanish.

---------- Post added 2011-03-25 at 05:03 PM ----------

I agree with the 'I don't want the rogues and their stealth to feel special thing' but a level 85 ability please. They should have given hunters an AoD type spell to call our pets we have on us for x amount of seconds.

Smoke Bomb says Hi.
3 Minutes cooldown, can use a 5 minutes cooldown to use twice, 5 second duration.

Camouflage is more consistantly useful for establishing ranged supremecy during resets. It has little use in PvE, but then again, neither do Stealth or Prowl.

I guess Stealth and Prowl should get a +100% crit modifier on their attack from stealth~

[Deleted]

It's far from useless against other classes.
It gives you range supremacy against all other ranged classes. Hunters stick Mages and Warlocks like pincushions. Let your partner initiate [If warrior, charge in and start the storm of damage], break Camo with a shot, start damaging, send pet, Web/Entrapment->Unhealable damage.

---------- Post added 2011-03-25 at 04:59 PM ----------


I really hope this poster's trying to troll.
Time Warp and SWG are both amazing abilities in PvE, while SWG remains amazing in PvP.
Just be thankful Camouflage is consistent in its usefulness, if you use it right.
Gee..That's a lot like smoke bomb. A long cooldown for a short duration where positioning and timing is everything.

Thankfully, the Hunter class has complications in its design - so the only thing you need to worry about with Camouflage is that you need to cast it.

---------- Post added 2011-03-25 at 05:00 PM ----------


Smoke Bomb+Vanish?
I think you meant Smoke Bomb+Stealth - which doesen't work because Smoke Bomb is 5s, and Combat time is 6s.
I'd love to queue against the Rogues who use Smoke Bomb into Vanish.

---------- Post added 2011-03-25 at 05:03 PM ----------



Smoke Bomb says Hi.
3 Minutes cooldown, can use a 5 minutes cooldown to use twice, 5 second duration.

Camouflage is more consistantly useful for establishing ranged supremecy during resets. It has little use in PvE, but then again, neither do Stealth or Prowl.

I guess Stealth and Prowl should get a +100% crit modifier on their attack from stealth~

Why would I be trolling?

Time Warp has limited usefulness for when there's no shaman in the group/raid. Since 75% of the 10 man raids have at least 1 shaman in the raids (based on personal experience, not on facts), it's only good for soloing and grouping, battlegrounds. Camo is good for those things+arena's.

SWG I have explained in my previous post. It's good in PvP, agreed. In PvE it's ocasionally useful but has to be changed in order to be really interesting on movement fights.

And I have a hunter as well for the record, which is currently my main.

[Kage4]

hmm, idk about you but for me, camo is a god send. never get detected when in camo, so I never aggro anything. no one sees me in pvp, or rarely. very convenient, when skipping trash, just in case.

[Minky]

Why would I be trolling?

Time Warp has limited usefulness for when there's no shaman in the group/raid. Since 75% of the 10 man raids have at least 1 shaman in the raids (based on personal experience, not on facts), it's only good for soloing and grouping, battlegrounds. Camo is good for those things+arena's.

SWG I have explained in my previous post. It's good in PvP, agreed. In PvE it's ocasionally useful but has to be changed in order to be really interesting on movement fights.

And I have a hunter as well for the record, which is currently my main.

Why exactly does something that has high usefulness in one facet and slight usefulness in another need a change?
I'll bring up a couple of other cases: Dark Simulacrum. Smoke Bomb. Mind Spike. Stampeding Roar. Wild Mushroom.

In fact, when you look at it with more than an objective point of view, every class' 81-85 abilities are extremely situational in nature; some more than others. The fact that Camouflage allows you to have Range superiority in both RBGs and Arenas should be enough to facilitate its use as an ability.

I would focus more on improving the Hunter Q of L - Like trap launcher, trap misses, and Focus as a mechanic in PvP.

[Deleted]

Why exactly does something that has high usefulness in one facet and slight usefulness in another need a change?
I'll bring up a couple of other cases: Dark Simulacrum. Smoke Bomb. Mind Spike. Stampeding Roar. Wild Mushroom.

In fact, when you look at it with more than an objective point of view, every class' 81-85 abilities are extremely situational in nature; some more than others. The fact that Camouflage allows you to have Range superiority in both RBGs and Arenas should be enough to facilitate its use as an ability.

I would focus more on improving the Hunter Q of L - Like trap launcher, trap misses, and Focus as a mechanic in PvP.

I agree with you, but coming from a PvE perspective that the OP uses in his post, I'm trying to say just that. All of those things have a very situational use, that was exactly what Blizzard wanted it to be. Camouflage is no worse than most other lv85 abilities, be it in PvP or PvE.

[Aleksej89]

I use Camo quite often in PvE:

1. Move in closer for more accurate Trap.
2. Sneak around in order to mark Patrols that need to be killed/evaded (large faceless in ToTides, for example).
3. Much much easier questing (gold/achievs), especially in Cataclysm zones.
4. Using Camo to escape unfavorable situations, by doing Feign Death and then Camo - for example, after a corpse run when surrounded by Mobs.
5. Hiding from PvP when i want to do PvE or Gathering.
6. Easier and safer positioning before boss fights.
7. Much easier to skip bosses and elite packs that your 5man party does not want to kill.
8. General sneaking around in instances, indoor areas - or anything that requires you to be on foot, Camo makes it safer PvE wise.
9. Using camo+gnomish knife to safely rezz dead healers after a wipe (5man usually).
10. Pulling ranged mobs with Camo+Trap - Casters or Ranged mobs will run to you in Melee when you "Trap Pull", making it much easier for your Tank to gather them around.
11. Camo + Feign Death work very similar to Rogue's Vanish, but on a much shorter cooldown.
12. Much easier running of old instances and even raids - Camo was of great use to me when i did Molten Core solo for some stuff.

This list is just what i could remember right now as far as PvE + Camo goes.
In fact, i like Camo so much i wish it had a shorter cooldown or a longer duration.
Really cool spell, useful quite often.

[Seditian]

it proves reliable in very few situations. And yes, I have an elemental shaman. The cooldown is way too high while the duration has been increased that didn't solve anything. A 1m duration is way too much for PvE situations and high movement fights. If you played an elemental shaman on fights like V&T you'd surely agree with me.

I agree it should have a lower cooldown, 1 minute cooldown and 7,5 second duration or something like that. Maybe even like a 30 second cd and 2 casts can be casted while running.
I haven't played an Elemental Shaman while fighting V&T, however I did that encounter on my Paladin and I currently play a lot on my Shaman, so I do understand where you're coming from.

But if you think it's useless, or at least near to useless, then boy has PvP got a treat for you, I'll give you some hints:

-Slows, since everyone has a much better slow, it renders this ability useless.
-Roots, pretty obvious here.
-Dispellable, now this is the worst of them all: you actually get interupted if it's dispelled and you're still running. Which is logical, but it should not be dispellable in the first place.

[Deleted]

I agree it should have a lower cooldown, 1 minute cooldown and 7,5 second duration or something like that. Maybe even like a 30 second cd and 2 casts can be casted while running.
I haven't played an Elemental Shaman while fighting V&T, however I did that encounter on my Paladin and I currently play a lot on my Shaman, so I do understand where you're coming from.

But if you think it's useless, or at least near to useless, then boy has PvP got a treat for you, I'll give you some hints:

-Slows, since everyone has a much better slow, it renders this ability useless.
-Roots, pretty obvious here.
-Dispellable, now this is the worst of them all: you actually get interupted if it's dispelled and you're still running. Which is logical, but it should not be dispellable in the first place.

I'm not quite sure that I understand what you're trying to say in the latter part of your post. It's not useless at all, I agree with that. It's great for kiting melee in a lot of scenario's. If you mean it's subjected to a lot of other factors in PvP (SWG that is) then I agree with you as well.

But that further proves my point that Camouflage isn't in such a bad state for being a level 85 ability since all (or most) level 85 abilities are extremely situational.

I do play a hunter and i have to say I've amused myself quite some times already with the ability and have come across quite a few situations where the skill is very handy (trapping, bypassing certain trash are some of them)

[Deleted]

you know i see that alot of people have flamed you but i am going to aswell delete your hunter cause your a moron

Well isn't that productive feedback, mister Hunter1207.

I am not going to discuss the matter of me being a moron (I can be a moron when I want to, guilty), but I would like to know

1) why I am a moron
2) where you see a lot of people flaming me when only 2 or 3 people have answered my post and they have actually agreed with me in a way

[Deleted]

I think we have a misunderstanding here. I am not the OP of this post. I just jumped in a few posts ago. That's a fault on my behalf. I was actually vouching for Camouflage being quite good compared to other lv85 abilities.

Nonetheless, I still don't like your attitude. Even if it's not against me, you don't just go around throwing the word moron at everyone who has an opinion about something. Neither do you call them stupid or do you tell them to - as you call it - 'stfu'.

And to think that you of all people are sick of those 'bayud huntards' you speak of. It's exactly people like you who have given hunters a bad name in the past. I do not claim that you don't know what you're talking about, nor do I claim that you're a bad hunter, but your childish attitude doesn't give you much credibility.

[Naked Hippie]

Using it incorrectly.
Take MagT for example as you seem to b solo'ing it as well.
Going through the gardens aftr the second boss, i use camo to move through the first area with my pet DISMISSED and get to the small little checkpoint with the sentinel. I stop in a corner, go full stealth, wait for it to pat past, and rinse/repeat to the Council.

The only thing i can get from this QQthread is you havent played a stealth class; ergo you're not accustomed to keeping your distance or recognizing how close you can be b4 an eliet roflstomps you