General question about 4.1

[Azragarn]

I have been playing a lock since first launch and like most been through up and downs, from worst class to OP DPS.

I have been looking at the 4.1 changes and i was wondering on ppls thoughts, do you think the changes being made to our class will be enough to make us a ... well viable (only word i could see that fit here)

While i still do ok DPS (13K ish) i see us around the middle and get comments like "OMG a warlock, i never see warlocks anymore" this is generally on pugs.

Just after thoughts not flames and arguments about dps etc

[Seezer]

Warlocks are viable in PVE now. In 4.1, affliction is going to pull ahead of destro and demo.

[Jademist]

I have been playing a lock since first launch and like most been through up and downs, from worst class to OP DPS.

I have been looking at the 4.1 changes and i was wondering on ppls thoughts, do you think the changes being made to our class will be enough to make us a ... well viable (only word i could see that fit here)

While i still do ok DPS (13K ish) i see us around the middle and get comments like "OMG a warlock, i never see warlocks anymore" this is generally on pugs.

Just after thoughts not flames and arguments about dps etc

Warlocks are just one of the least played classes. With Paladins being the most I believe...last time I checked that WoW-realms census website. That's why "people never see warlocks anymore". I guess its just not as much of an appealing class to others...

or they're just not capable of wielding the awesome powers of warlocks!

Anyways, Warlocks are very viable in PvE, I don't know why they aren't or wouldn't be.

[Veriu]

From a theoretical dps standpoint, destro lock is like 5th highest DPS spec, and the 3rd highest class, as hunters have 3 specs higher (MM, MM with arcane, and BM)

http://www.simulationcraft.org/406/Raid_T11_372.html

last sim of 4.1 has locks down to 6th highest spec (warriors moved ahead of us)

http://www.simulationcraft.org/410/Raid_T11_372.html

[helheim]

the op has a point though. on my realm (dragonmaw-us, medium to heavy population around 6500 85s or so) warlocks are actually kinda few and far between. one of the raid leaders in my guild frequently comments when i am in the raid how he is not used to having a warlock in raid or the "luxuries" we bring like healthstones, dark intent and summons.

even though affliction is "simming" to be the top dps spec for 4.1 i am trying to remain calm because i play destro, and affliction is lame. at least imo.

anyway we are quite viable in pve. i am usually top dps or close to it on fights like halfus, chimaeron, maloriak, atramedes, etc. it is kinda sad though when you see 5 seconds into a pull and the mm hunters are pulling 22k+ compared to the ramp up of about 18-19k i get after 25 seconds give or take.

[Azragarn]

Yeah i am a PVE aff lock, i was just so used to being the top of the meters and the hunters chasing me. Now alas i have to chase them and in some fights DK tanks

[Ekkoeu]

You should be able to already be doing substantial damage as Destro/Afflic pre 4.1 anyway. But Afflic will top in 4.1

[Ibis]

From a theoretical dps standpoint, destro lock is like 5th highest DPS spec, and the 3rd highest class, as hunters have 3 specs higher (MM, MM with arcane, and BM)

http://www.simulationcraft.org/406/Raid_T11_372.html

last sim of 4.1 has locks down to 6th highest spec (warriors moved ahead of us)

http://www.simulationcraft.org/410/Raid_T11_372.html

That's funny though and shows the difference between live and simmed. Arcane is supposedly the best spec. Yet State of DPS and RaidBots that collect the actual top data from WoL show that Fire is THE top overall dps spec in all categories (10N/10H/25N/25H) and arcane is somewhere far behind. (Well, adjusted totals make shadow priests the current top dps spec, but anyways). One thing is sure though - MM hunters are annoyingly good :P

I can analyze all the reasons for the differences, but we all know that simcraft is only simulating a Patchwerk fight with certain ("optimal" and BiS) conditions. That's not a problem really. It might become a problem when people take SimCraft chart and point out how each spec will do in the next patch, or slightly worse, how it "is" doing at the moment, rather than checking the real data. I also think that it's a problem if you choose your spec only because it's the top simulated dps spec. It's probably just an unfortunate choice of words, but you stated that "warriors movED ahead of us", like it already happened. For me that's taking simcraft charts too seriously.

It's a nice tool (especially for getting your personal stat weights) and sort of a guideline, but I think sometimes people are too religious about SimCraft. I'm not that naïve about World of Logs data either - they can be skewed if people are really determined to get ranked.

[Sometimes]

I've been playing my lock since I started in vanilla wow. Was an Undead and also my first character. Over the years I have race / faction changed back an forth and now I am an Orc.

We've been through one hell of a ride but honestly right now I love my lock more than ever, since nobody else seems to be playing one! I like the fact that in our whole guild, its only the GM who plays a lock (well).

Kind of nice to be unique in that sense, rather than the endless supply of DK's and Paladins.

[Veriu]

That's funny though and shows the difference between live and simmed. Arcane is supposedly the best spec. Yet State of DPS and RaidBots that collect the actual top data from WoL show that Fire is THE top overall dps spec in all categories (10N/10H/25N/25H) and arcane is somewhere far behind. (Well, adjusted totals make shadow priests the current top dps spec, but anyways). One thing is sure though - MM hunters are annoyingly good :P

I can analyze all the reasons for the differences, but we all know that simcraft is only simulating a Patchwerk fight with certain ("optimal" and BiS) conditions. That's not a problem really. It might become a problem when people take SimCraft chart and point out how each spec will do in the next patch, or slightly worse, how it "is" doing at the moment, rather than checking the real data. I also think that it's a problem if you choose your spec only because it's the top simulated dps spec. It's probably just an unfortunate choice of words, but you stated that "warriors movED ahead of us", like it already happened. For me that's taking simcraft charts too seriously.

It's a nice tool (especially for getting your personal stat weights) and sort of a guideline, but I think sometimes people are too religious about SimCraft. I'm not that naïve about World of Logs data either - they can be skewed if people are really determined to get ranked.

Did you actually read what I wrote? here I'll quote the important part here, I'll even bold it so you can be sure to see it.

From a theoretical dps standpoint

Yes, sim numbers =/= real dps, yes, some things show up higher on sim then they can in a real fight, and some things are lower in sims due to not being able to track multi doting/splash damage/etc....

but from a purely theoritical single target dps standpoint, sim numbers aren't terrible to look at....

As for arcane vs fire....yeah, because arcane BiS includes drops from Sinestra while I don't think fire BiS does....I know that that trinket from sinestra that drops mana cost by 405. As it makes Arcane blast a much much better spell...

As for your distaste for me saying that warriors movED above us....on that chart, they did. On the 4.0.6 chart, warriors are below us, on the 4.1 chart, they are above us....

Personally, I don't trust state of dps all that much either....it can be faked, and only goes off of combat logs that are logged, many of which aren't. Also, you are comparing specs where people don't have the same gear...so, if for some reason more people played spec/class X in the beginning, they will be better geared than people playing spec/class Y...therefore spec/class X will show up as higher DPS than spec/class Y, even though spec/class Y might actually be doing more dps than X at the same gear lvl.

[Azragarn]

I have to agree i am enjoying my lock alot at the moment but i feel that there is something broken about them like alot of you (as i started originally) i have been playing one since vanilla and will never change

Raided last night i ran with a destro lock, while on trash he kicked me over all my dps was higher. So in review while we are not that bad off i do hope that we can reclaim the damage levels we were doing ... i miss the days of the threads "warlocks are OP" and ppl just complaining and not being able to get why as they did not understand our play style hehe

[Deleted]

Warlocks are just one of the least played classes. With Paladins being the most I believe...last time I checked that WoW-realms census website. That's why "people never see warlocks anymore". I guess its just not as much of an appealing class to others...

or they're just not capable of wielding the awesome powers of warlocks!

Anyways, Warlocks are very viable in PvE, I don't know why they aren't or wouldn't be.

I installed WoWcensus and on my server Warlocks are the second least played class, coming only after rogues. Paladins are actually the most played class at 30ish%

[Deleted]

Overall, I think we're fine. Warlocks in PvE often compare themselves to shadow priests, and to be fair, Shadow Priests are completely OP at the moment, therefore we're fine.

Overall, we think they’re fine. Warlocks in PvP often compare themselves to Shadow priest, and to be fair, Shadow priests have some very potent emergency buttons, particularly Dispersion.