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  1. #1

    Guild Transfer & Guild Rename Services Coming, The View From 10,000 Feet

    Guild Transfer & Guild Rename Services Coming
    Originally Posted by Nethaera (Blue Tracker)
    We want to give everyone an early heads-up regarding our plan to implement a guild relocation service for World of Warcraft. The idea is for a guild leader to be able to transfer a guild to another realm. The guild structure remains intact, including the guild leader, guild bank, ranks, and guild name (depending on availability).

    Guild members who decide to relocate with their guild may initiate their own paid character transfer. Upon a successful transfer they will automatically be part of the guild when they first log into the new realm. Their guild rank and guild reputation will be intact.

    Guild leaders who do not want a change of scenery may also choose to pick a new guild name using another new service. These services are in development and we will be providing additional details at a future point in time.

    As with all of the features and services we offer, we intend to incorporate the guild relocation service in a way that will not disrupt the game play experience. Please note that this feature will require extensive internal testing, so you may see bits and pieces of the service appear on the public test realms. We'll announce further details at http://www.WorldofWarcraft.com .

    Dev Watercooler: The View From 10,000 Feet
    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
    So how is the view from way up here? It’s great actually -- we’re really happy with how Cataclysm is going so far, and we have big surprises on the horizon. On the other hand, there are details you can see at ground level that you can’t make out from 10,000 feet.

    When we started these blogs, the idea was to foster developer communication to the players without some of the inherent problems of posting in forums. Some players have pointed out recently, and we totally agree, that the blogs up until now have been from a very high vantage point. We looked for topics with universal interest that would feel important and newsworthy. That has worked overall, but we also feel like we’ve lost something from when I used to be down in the metaphorical trenches talking to players in the forums.

    So we’re going to try something a little different. We’re going to unleash some blogs that are much more conversational and less proclamational (that's a word now). If we deliver on this, it will hopefully feel like you’re eavesdropping on our design meetings. You won’t always learn a lot about exciting new features coming to the game, but you will (ideally) learn something about the design process itself. (When we have big, exciting news to share, or ‘State of the Game’ style blogs, we’ll still do those as well.)

    But to pull off this more casual blog style, let’s establish a few ground rules:

    1) No promises. I’m going to be talking about a lot of things we might do or things we could do. You shouldn’t interpret this brainstorming as patch notes. Our creative process is insanely iterative. We might pitch dozens of ideas before we find one we like. That can be really exhausting if you’re not used to it. If you’re more interested in final decisions and not idea churn, then this style of blog won’t be for you.

    2) Don’t read too much between the lines. I’m going to point out a lot of design flaws in our game. “Oh no! Goatcaller admitted WoW was deeply flawed! It’s shark-jumping time!” Look, Blizzard is very critical about our own designs. There is virtually nothing in World of Warcraft that could not be improved. That has always been the case and will continue to be the case. Just because I’m going to be sharing that more frankly with you doesn’t mean that the game now has more cracks in its foundation than it ever did. There is an old saying (misattributed, from what I understand, to Otto Bismarck) that laws are like sausages; it is best not seeing them being made. My old friend and mentor Bruce Shelley used to apply the same maxim to game design.

    3) No complaints about the topic. If we didn’t have an interesting discussion about a topic recently, e.g. shaman mechanics, I’m not going to invent one. That doesn’t mean that the class is perfect, or that we don’t love shaman players, or that the shaman class has no direction, or that the class design is frozen in carbonite. I’m not going to keep hash marks next to every class and spec to make sure I’ve covered their "Very Important Issues" lately in a blog. World of Warcraft design being what it is, we’ll probably eventually get around to talking about everyone on here, but it may take weeks or months or years. My team is responsible for areas of the game including classes, items, encounters, trade skills, achievements, combat, and UI, so my blogs will probably stick to those topics.

    Okay, all that preamble is out of the way now. I’ll probably refer back to it sometimes, if we have some players stomping all over the ground rules.

    One topic we’ve been discussing lately is the role of Hit and Expertise on tank gear (or more precisely, plate tanking gear). The conventional wisdom is that Hit and Expertise are threat stats, and you may need to swap them out with some of your mitigation stats depending on the situation. Realistically, unless you severely overgear the content, we don’t think that is actually true. Tanks almost always worry about survival first and foremost, which totally makes sense, and are willing to trade off threat stats for better mitigation in almost all situations. It’s much harder to progress if the tank explodes than it is if the cat occasionally pulls aggro. (It’s not quite that simple, but I’m going to gloss over details and exceptions since I spent so much text on the preamble up above).

    Once upon a time, taunts could miss, and so Hit was marginally more interesting than it is today. Once upon a time, having a boss parry your attacks could speed up its swing timer, which turned Expertise into a (often weak) survival stat. Boss parries felt very random though, both in the sense that sometimes the tank would suddenly take much more damage than anticipated and there was no easy way to know which bosses had parry speed up. (Today, you can assume none of them do.) Until recently, interrupts could miss, but asking a tank to stack a bunch of Hit just for those few opportunities when they were probably going to hit anyway but disaster would occur if they did not felt crummy too.

    The problem is that there aren’t a lot of stats that are interesting to tanks. Stamina and Armor are great, but their stat budget is often in lockstep with item level. (It would be interesting to consider if we could make that not the case once again, but that’s the topic for another blog.) We got rid of Defense as a stat that tanks needed to worry about. We have managed to make Mastery pretty good to excellent for tanks, so that’s at least one stat they like to see. Dodge and (if you’re a plate-wearer) Parry are good, and slightly interesting because of talents like Hold the Line. But beyond that, it starts to go downhill. Sure Haste and Crit can sometimes be fun, but really they often aren’t worth the trade off. That leaves us with Hit and Expertise. We’d like to make them more interesting to tanks. But how?

    One way is by turning them into defensive stats. They are defensive stats for Blood death knights, because the DK self-healing is tied into Death Strike, which can miss. It might be possible to do something similar for the other classes. Imagine if Shield Block had to actually hit the target. Presumably you raise your shield, but not high enough to intercept the incoming blow. Now hit becomes a mitigation stat for warriors as well. We might have to adjust the mitigation amount on Shield Block or give warriors a small Hit bonus so Hit capping wasn’t totally unreasonable, but you get the basic idea. You could do the same with paladins (make Holy Shield more interesting?) and druids as well (Savage Defense could proc on a hit).

    Is this a good idea? We’re not sure yet. You won’t see this change in the 4.1 patch for certain. There are trade-offs to making Hit and Expertise more valuable. Gearing as a tank might be more fun for experienced players, but it also might be more challenging for less experienced players. The number of struggling tanks in your Dungeon Finder groups might go up. Some less knowledgeable players (and to be fair, this stuff doesn’t exactly explain itself on the character sheet) might stack Hit way too high at the expense of a more valuable mitigation stat, such as mastery.

    It is the kind of thing we’re talking about though, and if you want to make a contribution to the tanking forums but aren’t quite sure on a topic, here is one potential possibility.

    -Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer of World of Warcraft. He still has Buru’s Skull Fragment.

  2. #2
    This is some fantastic news.
    I am American mentally, with Japanese tendencies.

  3. #3
    they sure have enough devs to make paid services compared to the amount of devs working on raid content

  4. #4
    Brewmaster Cairm's Avatar
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    almost posted TLR. No real change explained, just opinions. Most of the time its nothing they will fix before 3 months.

  5. #5
    in before the mass amounts of Q_Q about another way for blizz to make money :P

  6. #6
    Ohh, so now they can profit off entire guilds, eh? (if it's the same cost for every type of guild with any number of players, im all the way for it)

  7. #7
    So the guild 'relocate' and 'rename' features are paid for?

  8. #8
    well, im sure guilds will want to transfer to lower pop realms, and be awesome there...

  9. #9
    I can see the guild transfer going so horribly wrong.... Help!! Been hacked, my guild is gone! Along with out 500K golds, crafting mats gears..

  10. #10
    I'm sure people will take shit out of context, but it's nice to see some "what if" posts. If for nothing else than to see what's going on. A number of top guild tanks were remarking on the automatic hit cap on those abilities dumbing down gear options for them. So it's promising to at least see that being acknowledged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visker View Post
    they sure have enough devs to make paid services compared to the amount of devs working on raid content
    Are you really comparing backend services to raids that require entire 2D/3D art teams as well as developers? You might as well complain they updated the armory's layout instead of doing another 5-man.

    Quote Originally Posted by LilSin View Post
    I can see the guild transfer going so horribly wrong.... Help!! Been hacked, my guild is gone! Along with out 500K golds, crafting mats gears..
    They can do the same thing now (steal everything from bank, gdisband, etc) without it forcing them to use a credit card, if they get access to a Guild Master's account. Besides, if you run a guild that is even moderately big it's irresponsible not to have an authenticator.
    Last edited by dotSeed; 2011-03-23 at 05:36 PM.
    I'm in the "I don't have an obnoxiously large signature" club.

  11. #11
    guild transfer seems like a nice idea at first, then you realize it's a way to make more money with people with a lot more than the ridiculous gold transfer cap.
    honestly, between paying for this to have more mats and money when transferring, or buying from gold seller when you arrive on the other realm, I don't see the difference.
    Last edited by ragingsoul; 2011-03-23 at 05:34 PM.

  12. #12
    Paid guild name change and server transfer. bwahahahahahahahahahaha So now the real reason for guild perk implementation comes out.
    I knew Blizzard had turned into a stinking pile of shit when they started profiting off the backs of charities with pet sales.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Collected View Post
    So the guild 'relocate' and 'rename' features are paid for?
    They're similar server transfers and character name changes, so yeah

  14. #14
    I can see it now..."Guild leader is unhappy or recently fed up with guild, transfers guild stranding his entire crew on the original server...stripping them of a home and all guild rep. Insert trollface."

  15. #15
    So a GM can up-and-run to another server, change the guild name, his name, he race and faction?

    I guess this means that if your GM wants to move, he will move and take the guild bank with him. Maybe you are not making good enough progress and he wants to try another realm. While giving a GM this power, the small guys like us ..... lose all our guild perks.

    VERY bad idea IMO.

  16. #16
    Ugh. "Well, we made hit and expertise completely unnecessary, allowing tanks to focus completely on mitigation. Now we're backtracking and want to make hit and expertise necessary again".

    No. Just...no.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nananea View Post
    I can see it now..."Guild leader is unhappy or recently fed up with guild, transfers guild stranding his entire crew on the original server...stripping them of a home and all guild rep. Insert trollface."
    Your guild membership is already at the pleasure of your leader. He doesn't need to change servers to dump you and place you on ignore.

  18. #18
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visker View Post
    they sure have enough devs to make paid services compared to the amount of devs working on raid content
    Because backend coding is totally done by the same people doing encounter design and 3D modeling.

    Yup.

    guild transfer seems like a nice idea at first, then you realize it's a way to make more money with people with a lot more than the ridiculous gold transfer cap.
    honestly, between paying for this to have more mats and money when transferring, or buying from gold seller when you arrive on the other realm, I don't see the difference.
    That's what happens when you compare apples to oranges while using ridiculous assumptions with a "hot topic" like gold selling to try and make a point.

    Blizzard is a business. Their first priority is making money. Believe it or not, appeasing the playerbase comes second. The only people that paid transfers will affect to the point of losing a subscription, are naive/ignorant kids that think making money is a bad thing. Stop trying to fight the man, because in an environment like this, the man will always win.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age"

  19. #19
    Mechagnome
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    And you guys wonder why developers don’t want to post on the forum. Blizz is a company and companies want to (need to if they want to stay around) make money, this is not evil. If you don’t want the service then don’t use it, others of us would like the option to do so.
    Last edited by Shockzilla; 2011-03-23 at 05:58 PM.

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire Poysonivy's Avatar
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    Change server is kinda iffy to me. If they could rename the guild and/or merge with an existing one that would be just fine.

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