The Moonkin Guide - Cataclysm Edition

[axxey]

You missed my point. (I'm not an alchemist, i use mirror myself)
Trinket uptime is unimportant, % of viable uptime is.

It's not 16.7% uptime, it's how much of that 16.7% falls under eclipse where it has a use?
You can't calculate a mastery proc for boomkins the same as a dps class that has static damage increasing masteries.

If i look at a random log of myself, there's 16.9% uptime, 80% of the first proc in eclipse, 20% of second proc and 70% of 3rd proc fall under eclipse. Very random factors, 34 seconds of uptime during eclipse falls at more like 11% effective uptime rather than 16.9%.
(I rounded some numbers, you get the general picture though).

[Thalur]

You are missing the point of mastery. Moonkin mastery is designed around the fact that you are in Eclipse only around half the time, so in a manner of speaking, you get twice the usual benefit from mastery while in Eclipse, and none outside.

To evaluate the trinket, stop thinking about proc luck. Over a number of fights, you will get the average uptime in and outside of Eclipse depending on how long you usually are in and outside Eclipse. It evens itself out, but it increases the rng impact in a single fight.

As a result, you can value the mastery proc just the same as static mastery. The only difference is that it is much stronger for multi-target fights where you stay in Eclipse longer than usual.

[Kromus]

Good informative response as always guys, and I now understand the benefits

Will look into acquiring Mirror, have been letting it slide to OS for other raid members haha

Thanks for the response guys and keep up the good work, a thread I always enjoy reading

[Sysunia]

Last night i spend about 70% of my total dkp on the HC version of mirror, tbh i dont see how a random mastery proc can be good for us, but everywhere they say that 372 mirror is BiS so I belive people smarter than me ;]

[axxey]

Since it fell back on the other page, I'll quote my question again in the hopes that calculated or one of the math people could give me an idea.

What % of uptime return do you need from 1926 mastery to beat passive 30int and 195haste?

I'm assuming there will be break points for a proc trinket in fight length(cooldowns fit in), quite apart from the proc itself.

What % of the generic 16.7% uptime needs to fall under eclipse to beat the passive alchy stone.

[Calculated]

As noted above, that's not really the way you want to go at this but if you want to know what WrathCalcs uses:

a) WC modeling assumes a single-target, stand-and-turret rotation
b) WC has 29% Solar Uptime and 27% Lunar uptime = 56% Total Eclipse uptime

So . . . using the assumptions of 56% Eclipse uptime and 16.7% Mirror uptime, WrathCalcs has Mirror ahead . . . best answer I can give you. All of that said, 56% uptime is fairly low for Eclipse because in actual encounters we are not able to just stand and turret. My Eclipse uptime from a variety of boss encounters in my last log from this week ranges from 69.7% to 84.0%. If you extend your Eclipse at all, you will definitely see >60% Eclipse uptime on any given fight.

Quite frankly, Mirror just sets up as a very strong trinket -- don't get caught up on Mastery only helping Eclipse -- the lion's share of our damage comes from Eclipse. My experience has been that Mirror's 20 second duration generally gets me a good amount of value from each proc. Also, if I can get multi-sets of Eclipsed dots out, those keep giving even after the proc has faded. In my opinion, when you start applying real encounter scenarios and mechanics, Mirror starts to pull even further ahead than the spreadsheet modeling would indicate.

[Kromus]

Plugged my information into Wratchcalcs, fantastic spreadsheet.

Feel silly raiding at a high level through wotlk and Cata without using this as a reference tool for improvement

Should be included within the old Miscelanous section of your guide for a reference tool. Its pretty nice for breakdowns and reviewing

[Calculated]

I put a link to WrathCalcs in the Stats and Caps section and I believe in the Reforging section as well. Best tool out there for my money.

[penpen002]

Oh neato there's more stuff added from the last time I've checked

[Deleted]

Plugged my information into Wratchcalcs, fantastic spreadsheet.

Feel silly raiding at a high level through wotlk and Cata without using this as a reference tool for improvement

Should be included within the old Miscelanous section of your guide for a reference tool. Its pretty nice for breakdowns and reviewing

I've been helping Hamlet out by adding the character setup interface and some general macros to the sheet, if anyone has any feedback or ideas I'd love to hear them! My current project is adding Armory import.

[shags the penguin]

I've been helping Hamlet out by adding the character setup interface and some general macros to the sheet, if anyone has any feedback or ideas I'd love to hear them! My current project is adding Armory import.

Armory important :O <3 That will make thinks easier by far All of my feedback is good

[Kromus]

I've been helping Hamlet out by adding the character setup interface and some general macros to the sheet, if anyone has any feedback or ideas I'd love to hear them! My current project is adding Armory import.

As said above, it was pretty taxing inputting all my information piece by piece, considering all the information is available in the armoury, something to pull data form the armoury would be a lot easier.

[fews]

Thanks for showing me how to dps Calculated, its appreciated. But, I have a question about your heroic raiding spec... why did you opt to take Gale Winds over maxing out Moonkin Frenzy? I understand that even if you do this it leaves you with only 30 points (i put my extra one into moonglow). I never, ever use hurricane and only use typhoon for its pushback/daze if, say, an add gets loose and starts whacking a healer. It seems like a huge waste of two talent points.

[shags the penguin]

Thanks for showing me how to dps Calculated, its appreciated. But, I have a question about your heroic raiding spec... why did you opt to take Gale Winds over maxing out Moonkin Frenzy? I understand that even if you do this it leaves you with only 30 points (i put my extra one into moonglow). I never, ever use hurricane and only use typhoon for its pushback/daze if, say, an add gets loose and starts whacking a healer. It seems like a huge waste of two talent points.

I would guess its a more cho'gal spec, Solar beam, gale winds for extra damage on typhoon, The - spell damage taken, leaves owlkin as the only noncore talent left. Not 100% but i dont remember owlkin being that often on cho'gall

[Calculated]

Shags wins the internet His answer is spot-on. I prioritized some talent points for Cho'gall / Sinestra.

There are only a few fights that I really feel I need to optimize spec for atm (Sinestra, Cho'gall, Al'Akir, Nefarian). Gale Winds helps in a significant way on Cho'gall and Sinestra and Owlkin isn't really make or break on any of these 4 fights (even though it does proc significantly on Nef and Al'Akir). Solar Beam is specific to Cho'gall as well although it can also help on a clutch Nefarian P2 interrupt if primary/backup interrupts are dealing with Cinders or some such. Anyway, I could still get 3/3 Owlkin if I dropped a point out of Perseverance but I prefer the extra damage mitigation to the nominal damage increase on these fights as well.

[fews]

oh okay... that makes good sense. we do 10s and we're just starting progression on hc nef and i didnt make the cut for our al'akir team (fuckin tornadoes are the bane of my existance)... so ill keep that in mind for cho'gal and sinestra

also, since im here, do you have any tips on how to keep dps on al'akir in p1? i mean it seems like once we hit lunar eclipse our dps just tanks... i rarely find a good time to hardcast a starfire.

[foibooze]

oh okay... that makes good sense. we do 10s and we're just starting progression on hc nef and i didnt make the cut for our al'akir team (fuckin tornadoes are the bane of my existance)... so ill keep that in mind for cho'gal and sinestra

also, since im here, do you have any tips on how to keep dps on al'akir in p1? i mean it seems like once we hit lunar eclipse our dps just tanks... i rarely find a good time to hardcast a starfire.

1. Take the worst spot on the platform so that other dps doesn't have to deal with double blizzards and coinciding cyclonewalls during windblasts.
2. Pre-pot, rip away towards solar eclipse.
3. Congratz you are now in solar eclipse.
4. Keep dots up, spam sunfire, use cd's, starsurge on procc (don't go out of solar)

I do this when I get 'upset' at the heavy movement and bad timing of it. Entering p2 with anything between 17 and 22k dps. It's not fun to look at compared to MMhunter (lol) arcanemages and such but hey, I tend to catch up a bit in p2 and normally end around the same numbers when he's dead.

If you are better at timing the rotation you can keep it up and keep the dps at around 23-25 I spose, but I manage to screw it up 2/3 so I prefer the safe method of spamming sunfire, gives a higher worst case scenario output from my experience.

[fews]

holy shit i didnt believe you for even a second but i just tested this out and did about 14k sustained on a target dummy.... with raid buffs this might actually be viable

[foibooze]

It's a real crutch, but with the heavy movement going on it soothes my mind playing like this rather than sitting on edge biting my tongue to get everything timed right. GL claiming your spot! =)

[Deleted]

Does anyone know if it's possible to make some targetable pets/ things with engineering or any other way?

It would be awesome to start each boss fight at the precise eclipse point you want.