Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
  1. #61
    I'm kind of surprised by the amount of people that thought it gave spell hit...I guess if you just started at the end of wrath or in cata you might think that.

  2. #62
    The Insane Rivin's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Posts
    16,615
    Quote Originally Posted by grandpab View Post
    I'm kind of surprised by the amount of people that thought it gave spell hit...I guess if you just started at the end of wrath or in cata you might think that.
    It's not that surprising...Dual Wield Specialization never said it only gave melee hit, even in TBC (if I'm remembering right, anyway, but as of the start of Wrath it definitely didn't), and until Cataclysm the hit gain didn't show in the character sheet either. :/ Actually given that it only showed in the character sheet starting in 4.0.1, it seems like it would be more likely that those who started playing a shaman in Cataclysm would be even less likely to make the mistake.

  3. #63
    It's just that, if you think about it a little it seems like common sense, as long as you know you need 1742 hit for spell hit and that its 17%, you wouldn't need 1742 hit if it gave spell hit.

  4. #64
    High Overlord Anthas's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    168
    When I saw that in the patch notes, I thought to myself "that makes sense" and carried on with my day. Doesn't bother me at all.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    missed 4 lava lashes and flame shocks in a row. yaw, i'm lucky. stupid theory crafters with "agi better than hit", we are not feral druids!

    Lava lash is a melee special and only requires 8% melee hit. With your 6%hit bonus, you'll only need about 241 hit rating extra to never miss your melee specials.

    And I can understand you might have hard times capping expertise and spell hit at pre raid level, however i really can't understand you can't cap your melee specials.
    Maybe you got some debuff that made you miss? Or maybe you confused parry/dodge with miss? Did boss/mob use some rogue like "evasion" spell?

    For flame shock you are right, but missing some of those won't gimp your dps as much as loosing agility for hit.

    TLDR: agi > hit (until spell cap) > expertise (until cap) > mastery >crit > haste, and meeting hit and expertise caps should not be an issue with raiding gear and appropriate reforging/gemming

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitz View Post
    I think it would be harder to balance a CD around a "Random" proc. Then again it would add another random factor to enh DPS.
    On a side note, I'd love either a "SS increase Maelstrom Weapon to proc by x% for y sec" Which would make MW less random and "Almost" predictable SS > 2 Hits > MWx5 LB. Or make WF procs Nature base like a lot have said and help with the enh "scaling" problem ^_^
    It would add a random factor, but it would drive people toward haste since it just gives proccing WF that edge over other stats perhaps. After all, the Demo lock talent proccing to reduce metamorphosis is RNG but still works out pretty well.
    Either way the main point is the cooldown, which could be anything, reduced CD, more damage %, increased proc chance on MSW/WF, whatever, loads of options. It just gives a nice extra mechanic to the cooldown.
    Haste reducing Lava Lash and Unleash Elements would be my preferred, since UE reduction from haste also gives more haste procs so a twofold plus.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Aertea View Post

    2.) Middle compared to what? Frost Mages? BM Hunters? Sub Rogues? Drop the specs no one uses and we're in the bottom.
    No, you're not. Maybe you should actually take a look at other classes before you say something?

    Your scaling isn't nearly as bad as it is for feral druids (even balance has worse scaling, it's still better than feral), it's also better than DK scaling. Compared to us, your scaling looks terrific.

    So stop thinking you're the only one who scales badly, when you're not even close to the worst.
    Last edited by Fojos; 2011-03-29 at 05:12 PM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Fojos View Post
    No, you're not. Maybe you should actually take a look at other classes before you say something?

    Your scaling isn't nearly as bad as it is for feral druids (even balance has worse scaling, it's still better than feral), it's also better than DK scaling. Compared to us, your scaling looks terrific.

    So stop thinking you're the only one who scales badly, when you're not even close to the worst.
    Where do you get your -how should I call it - statements from?
    Quote Originally Posted by Genganger View Post
    Often I just open the fridge instead of turning the lights on in the kitchen. I like that.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Fojos View Post
    No, you're not. Maybe you should actually take a look at other classes before you say something?

    Your scaling isn't nearly as bad as it is for feral druids (even balance has worse scaling, it's still better than feral), it's also better than DK scaling. Compared to us, your scaling looks terrific.

    So stop thinking you're the only one who scales badly, when you're not even close to the worst.
    You do understand the difference between scaling, and simply doing poor DPS don't you?

    Death Knights, Feral druids appear to fall into the later category. This doesn't mean they don't need help, but it means what they face is not a scaling issue.

    Can you name another class who averages out near the top in 346 gear, but falls to the bottom quarter by 372? I believe Enhance is the worst scaling spec in the game. This doesn't mean we're in bad shape now, but if it doesn't get fixed, we'll have some major problems come 4.2.

  10. #70
    The reason why Ferals and DKs are starting to slide down is the constant nerfs they have been taking. They still scale better than we do.

    Each 2 week segment of Stateofdps Enhance keeps sliding down more. This isn't because of gimmick fights, cheesing encounters by other dps, it is simply as the other classes are getting better gear, they are surpassing us.

    The smart ones have said this all along, but the mouthbreathers just don't seem to get it.
    Last edited by gynshon; 2011-03-29 at 09:49 PM.

    Sig made by Shyama. Click sig for current Warlock armory.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Aertea View Post
    Can you name another class who averages out near the top in 346 gear, but falls to the bottom quarter by 372? I believe Enhance is the worst scaling spec in the game. This doesn't mean we're in bad shape now, but if it doesn't get fixed, we'll have some major problems come 4.2.
    The two classes I mentioned did good in 346 gear, so what are you talking about? Don't ask other people if they know what we're discussing when you don't even have any knowledge of the classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    The reason why Ferals and DKs are starting to slide down is the constant nerfs they have been taking. They still scale better than we do.
    Feral druids haven't been nerfed in PVE. Our shred and mangle got buffed with the bleed nerfs (this actually helped our scaling, but just by a tiny bit).
    Last edited by Fojos; 2011-03-31 at 04:26 AM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Fojos View Post
    The two classes I mentioned did good in 346 gear, so what are you talking about? Don't ask other people if they know what we're discussing when you don't even have any knowledge of the classes.
    So you agree with me, then insult me? Awesome.

    You said it yourself. The other classes did "good". They didn't do the best, simply good. Enhancement on the other hand was doing the best.

    Again, I am not saying DKs and Druids don't have issues that need to be addressed. I'm saying Enhancement scaling is the worst, which the numbers support fairly well.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Aertea View Post

    You said it yourself. The other classes did "good". They didn't do the best, simply good. Enhancement on the other hand was doing the best.
    No, enhancement wasn't doing close to best in blue gear. Use simulations for all the different classes and you'll see. Feral is theoretically above enhancement in blue, and below in epic, so yeah.

  14. #74
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Isle of Faces
    Posts
    15,064
    Quote Originally Posted by straazz View Post
    So, reading through the laltest (datamined) PTR changes, I noticed that our DW specialization is taking a blow. On live servers it increases all hit by 6%, whereas it no longer increases spell hit on that PTR build.

    I don't mean to QQ at all, but it just seems like it's not that well thought through. Enh shams already have a hard time gearing and reforging to meet both the spell hit cap (which on live servers is 11%, 10% if Draenei) AND the expertise cap. As I've gone through some of the JP and VP gear, T11 included, I noticed there are a more than a few items that do have hit on them. I also went through the 359 mail agi and 1H agi epics, and found that very few items actually have hit.

    I already have issues getting capped on spell hit and exp, so what I'm thinking is that the current tier of gear really doesn't support this change. Right now it only works out by a very tiny margin. Imagine 4.1 hitting, and having to pull all your expertise rating, which is a maximum of 541 rating (since mail agi doesn't have exp), over to hit, where you would need 6 x 121 = 726 rating to get capped once again. Result: Not hit capped, and nowhere to get additional hit from. OR... You can do nothing, and just be even further away from the spell hit cap.

    So what I'm thinking, is that we're either gonna miss quite often on MW procs and shocks, OR we're gonna have to live with raid bosses dodging us a whole lot.

    Any thoughts?
    That passive has NEVER affected spell hit. Ever. It's a tooltip fix. Do this many Shaman really not know this?

    Enhance needs 1742 Hit rating, and 541 Expertise rating to be raid boss capped. Except for Fury Warriors, we need more Hitspertise rating than anybody.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2011-03-31 at 06:14 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •