The Divide: An idea on a fix for frost PvP vs. PvE.

[Critpickle]

Here is some food for thought, what if they made the frost tree much larger...the idea I have would require the tree to be about doubled in size. now, im going to use two concepts here, one in Rift and one already in WoW to some degree. This would require a large overhaul of the spec, not so much in talents but in the way the tree is designed.
Deep breath, wall of text inc. -=Sidenote=- I posted this previously in the comments of the mage column on wow.joystiq.com but realized this is much better for discussion.

Concept:
a). Make two separate sections of the frost tree, one side valuable to pvp and one valuable to pve. The way the two trees would work is thus: Talent A is required for talent B which is required for C which splits off into D and E which are required for X and Y and so on. This way to get the valuable talents for lets say pvp you have to go so deep into the PvP side it is no longer worth it to tap into the PvE side, and put the talents that would be valuable for PvP but are meant for PvE so deep enough into the PvE side that they are inaccessible to those going into the PvP side. Im not talking Deep Freeze or anything here, those talents could be perhaps duplicated in both trees, im mainly talking about talents that "increase damage by X" or "Increases critical strike chance of Y by X"
This would allow both sides to be balanced differently.

b). Make talents in this PvP "side" of the spec "Increases damage against PLAYERS by X" or "absorbs X amount of incoming PLAYER damage". Therefore it would make talents in this spec unattractive to the other side intended for PvE because it would be a 0% increase in PvE.

Anyhow tell me your thoughts, I know theres alot of room for improvement but this is my basic idea.

[Rezkin]

Way to much for the programers and game load, been discussed to death already and answered...

[Deleted]

Blizzard don't want Frost doing good damage in PvE. That's why they nerfed Deep Freeze damage.

[takolin]

Blizzard don't want Frost doing good damage in PvE. That's why they nerfed Deep Freeze damage.

I think the high DF damagechange was because it madecertain things too easy to burst down. It was too much damage for 1 GCD (or 2 with cold snap).

[Pasture]

The best way is to have frostbolt stack some kind of frost dot. Perhaps have your ice lance / deep freeze / frostfire bolt do more damage for each stack of the dot. It would almost always be up in PvE but rarely in PvP.

[Deleted]

The best way is to have frostbolt stack some kind of frost dot. Perhaps have your ice lance / deep freeze / frostfire bolt do more damage for each stack of the dot. It would almost always be up in PvE but rarely in PvP.

Sound's interesting but I don't really see frost as a dot spec.
Maybe this dot could be dispellable therefore giving us more dispel protection on our roots / cc in pvp?

[FrozenFlames]

Blizzard don't want Frost doing good damage in PvE. That's why they nerfed Deep Freeze damage.

Well the thing is, Frost is still nice damage and it will get buffed next patch..

[Veliane]

Tone down Frostbolt and Ice Lance damage.

Glyph of Dry Ice - Prime - Increases your base Mastery by 6 but your Frost damage spells are longer able to slow or snare.

Glyph of Deep Freeze - Major - Reduces the cooldown of your Deep Freeze by 50% but decreases the duration of it's stun effect by 4 seconds.

[MarizzaDraenor]

Should just remove the mastery usage as we know ir for next expansion and rework it as a PvP perk sort of.

Make all trees for all classes viable and balanced PvE wise.

Adjust their PvP usage through mastery (changes/adjustments on talents etc).

Something like a spec inside the spec option.

You are a frost mage for example. Great ! Where do you wanna place your mastery on pve or pvp? And specific spell unlocking according to that.

[Critpickle]

You are a frost mage for example. Great ! Where do you wanna place your mastery on pve or pvp? And specific spell unlocking according to that.

Thats sort of what I was going for, like give them similar tools just change them up, I.E. Going the Frost PvP option would unlock Deep Freeze as a stun, but no damage, and going the PvE option would give DF damage, (only on stun immune mobs) but maybe a toned down version on a shorter cooldown.

[Chireru93]

The best way is to have frostbolt stack some kind of frost dot. Perhaps have your ice lance / deep freeze / frostfire bolt do more damage for each stack of the dot. It would almost always be up in PvE but rarely in PvP.

this all the way. frostbolt is your main spell in pve but in pvp you're going to be running around a lot, and hell if you're not that's because you're fighting a ranged and it's melee that seem to lose to frost mages (except for dk's..well, good dk's, the few there are), and if a melee is on a frost mage the mage has to keep moving so they can't really keep the dot rolling.

Edit: also, the idea the first post stated wouldn't work. That completely defeats the purpose of the smaller talent trees, and would instead create a 4th talent tree similar to the 3rd, which is frost. I've seen good dmg by frost mages in pve and they have their uses, like in the Magmaw (right?) fight to slow down the adds, that can help the healers out more than you'd think, and free up another dps who may do more dps than said mage would as fire or arcane to dps instead.

[Critpickle]

Blizzard making talent tree's tiny in the first place was a mistake, if anything they should've made the tree's more diverse and changed what was already there, they say they want to give the players choices, making tiny tree's only makes cookie cutter specs viable, especially in raiding.