Heroic Al'akir advice....

[Magicochon]

First, this fight is simply retarded
Second, anybody have any tips about how to place healer / range / melee. We change our position every 4-5 try but nothing seems to work. The p1 is SOOOO rng that we can't find what would be the best positionning.
We're doing it 3healers. We want to push the p1 asssap.
I'M on the back where the !&"?$?!*&* ice is and sometime I have the feeling that I can do NOTHING but watch the random killing me. Sometime I can dodge everything perfectly cuz everything linned up in a way that I it was naerly impossible to dodge, and then bam Lightning on me will I'm near 1-2 other player and we all die like shit.

I just doN,t see how we will do this fight, we wipe 5-6 times in p1 before we reach p2, then we wipe 5-6 again in p1 to do 1 try on p2... it sucks...
I can't see how I could give "explaination" about what I do cuz I do different things nearly everytry cuz the p1 is simply fucking too rng....

Anybody who killed it can spar some tips cuz I can't see the end...

---sorry for bad english----

[Deleted]

Eventually you get lucky and kill it or people start to see the patterns (which there some of). It can seem extremely rng at the start, especially if you have to factor in the ice shit. I'd recommend you place your holy paladin on the left of the tank, cause it seems the ice always goes that way btw that way he can freedom himself to quickly move over the ice if it comes to that. Also warrior tanks are extremely usefull for this fight with heroic leap and charge to minimize electrocute dmg.

[Magicochon]

already doing that
I'm still smashing my head over the desk

[Chiasmus]

The fight is not 'retarded', it's one of the best designed fights in the game; your group is just playing badly. There are so many ways to avoid the 'RNG deaths' that for some reason everyone harps on about, especially on ten man where you have completely free movement around the platform.

Got Lightning Charge on you and the ice patch spawned close by? Move to your left/right.
Can't get into the gap for Squall Line without crossing the ice patch? Move to your left/right.
Got Wind Burst and Squall Line coming at the same time? Move to your left/right.

I see a trend here! Positions don't have to be static at all, and any bad combination can be countered with planning before events occur. Think to yourself, "hmm, Squall Line is coming and we have Wind Blast very soon, are they going to collide? Should I move pre-emptively to avoid the chance of being knocked off the platform or getting hit by Squall Line?". You'll soon notice that phase one isn't so random at all, and every combination thrown at you can be predicted ahead of time and nullified.

In terms of positioning, you'll probably want to have one healer near the back of the boss with any melee you have, then have the other healers on the left and right side of the tank, with the casters in range of at least one of these healers.

[G l o w y r m]

We change our position every 4-5 try but nothing seems to work. The p1 is SOOOO rng that we can't find what would be the best positionning.

The fight IS scripted and there is a counter to everything. Each section of the board acts pretty much the same way each time so moving people around so much is going to make it harder since no one is getting used to the "pattern" of their section. The only things that change are the ice and lightning, which just require proper healing (and on 10m, movement).

10m is just about spreading out and having pretty much 1 person on each section. A tank in front with a healer on the section next to him, then a caster DPS maybe also, the rest should be along the side/back. When lightning hits just have the healers move to the section next to the lightning and heal those people. Everything else is just reacting properly. Healing this fight just takes proper prioritizing. Healing lightning people before topping someone else off, noticing when someone is running through ice, etc.

Got Lightning Charge on you and the ice patch spawned close by? Move to your left/right.
Can't get into the gap for Squall Line without crossing the ice patch? Move to your left/right.
Got Wind Burst and Squall Line coming at the same time? Move to your left/right.

^

Oh 1 more trick, healers can stand right next to Al'Akir and heal melee through him on the other side and a few spaces away. This can be handy sometimes.

Also try watching some videos, Vigil/Cuties Only/Vodka and others all have heroic 10 Al'Akir videos out on youtube.

[wordup]

The fight is not 'retarded', it's one of the best designed fights in the game; your group is just playing badly. There are so many ways to avoid the 'RNG deaths' that for some reason everyone harps on about, especially on ten man where you have completely free movement around the platform.

Got Lightning Charge on you and the ice patch spawned close by? Move to your left/right.
Can't get into the gap for Squall Line without crossing the ice patch? Move to your left/right.
Got Wind Burst and Squall Line coming at the same time? Move to your left/right.

I see a trend here! Positions don't have to be static at all, and any bad combination can be countered with planning before events occur. Think to yourself, "hmm, Squall Line is coming and we have Wind Blast very soon, are they going to collide? Should I move pre-emptively to avoid the chance of being knocked off the platform or getting hit by Squall Line?". You'll soon notice that phase one isn't so random at all, and every combination thrown at you can be predicted ahead of time and nullified.

In terms of positioning, you'll probably want to have one healer near the back of the boss with any melee you have, then have the other healers on the left and right side of the tank, with the casters in range of at least one of these healers.

It is not one of the best designed fights in the game, you're just kidding yourself.
On heroic 10man, it is just a variety of clusterfuck mechanics in P1, then a massive joke afterwards. It's embarassing to call it a hard mode encounter on 10man, since it is just a 1 phase wonder and then a clear rush to the finish after. Don't insult people when it's a faceroll encounter, it's asinine and childish. In 25man there truly are potential RNG deaths because the alignment of abilities can force people into bad positions, and if you think otherwise you clearly haven't done it on heroic nor are you a serious hard mode raider.

[Deleted]

I know you gave your reasoning for choosing 3 healers, and I don't know if you've tried it, but you may find taking 4 healers is a lot more forgiving. P1 will last longer of course like you said, but in a lot of situations which might be labelled by you as bad RNG, the 4th healer might make this much easier. At least it might get you through more phase 1's on a given raid night.

[Chiasmus]

It is not one of the best designed fights in the game, you're just kidding yourself.
On heroic 10man, it is just a variety of clusterfuck mechanics in P1, then a massive joke afterwards. It's embarassing to call it a hard mode encounter on 10man, since it is just a 1 phase wonder and then a clear rush to the finish after. Don't insult people when it's a faceroll encounter, it's asinine and childish. In 25man there truly are potential RNG deaths because the alignment of abilities can force people into bad positions, and if you think otherwise you clearly haven't done it on heroic nor are you a serious hard mode raider.

Off-topic: I'm not going to get into a slagging match with you. My post wasn't intended to be insulting, but to merely offer the advice that the OP requested. The OP blamed their wipes on the perceived randomness, rather than the actual cause, which was their guild's own poor play. I could have posted in a more positive tone, but even a sugar-coated "learn to play" is still insulting (and even more condescending).

Even more off-topic: 25 man has RNG, as does 10 man, that doesn't mean that certain scenario's mean you're guaranteed to die. It is entirely possible to avoid dying even in the most horrible circumstances by doing what I stated in my other post: moving to another group. Six people in a Lightning Charge is healable (given there'd be two healers there, plus a third right next to them), but even that isn't needed if you have each DPS in the group move in different directions. Feel free to dispute this, but I can honestly say that all of my deaths on Al'Akir 25H phase 1 were totally avoidable and were caused by me not thinking ahead or being slow to react with a Healthstone.

On-topic: What Silvaa said is also true, and will counteract the loss of DPS in phase 2 by allowing you to survive a lot longer into it. The enrage timer is virtually non-existent on Al'Akir.

[Deleted]

I'd avoid moving ppl from one position to another as mentioned, they get better at making the right choices and spotting the timings of the various bad shizz.

[Blacksen]

First, use 4 healers.

Second, heal through the lightning damage in phase 1. If you are the target for lightning (you're the one standing in the middle when it spawns), just don't move. Other people should move.

Third, use the number system for tornados. 1 is closest to the boss, 7 is all the way out. The tornados always spawn in te same spots an move the same direction relative to the tank. You should know based on the number where you're going to need to be 30s in advance.

There are only 14 scenarios you need to deal with in phase 1 under this system, one for each tornado, each direction. It's not hard.

The entire fight is phase 1. It took us 64 attempts to down with a moderately stacked raid. 19 of those 64 made it solidly into phase 2. 4 made it into phase 3.

[Makarena]

what blacksen said tbh.

[Deleted]

There is 8 points on the minimap which is good to use for positioning. We use one player at each point and two players at two points. Classes who can get away quickly if a lightning field spawns is good to have at those 2points.

Normally you dont move at all if a lightning field spawns, just heal through it. We usually have a mage and warrior who blink/heroic leap if it spawns a lightning field where we have 2 players. Rogues and warlocks are also good for this.

We have a holypala to the left of our tank and another healer to the right. Position 2 players to the right of the tank and behind Al Akir. Usually the icepatches starts moving clockwise to the left of the tank and its easier to move away from lightning fields if you dont have to bother about icepatches.

Once we started with this positioning we minimized the RNG part of p1 and we usually reach p2 60-70% of our tries.

We have killed it 4 times in 10man heroic and we use 4 healers, but this reset we used 3 healers instead. I found P2 much easier with 1 more dps. Classes (mage/paladin/rogue/DK) who can reset their stacks will make P2 easier for healers.

[Hotcandy]

we're about 50 attempts in and are smoothing things out in p2 (our best is 35%). We are using 3 healers, we get through P1 about 20% of the time. The questions I have is if we can get through p1 wit h 3 healers should we continue this route? Where do you need the extra 4th healer I've seen top guilds recommend? And lastly is p3 just a joke as I've perceived it to be?

[Pasture]

The fight is not 'retarded', it's one of the best designed fights in the game; your group is just playing badly. There are so many ways to avoid the 'RNG deaths' that for some reason everyone harps on about, especially on ten man where you have completely free movement around the platform.

Got Lightning Charge on you and the ice patch spawned close by? Move to your left/right.
Can't get into the gap for Squall Line without crossing the ice patch? Move to your left/right.
Got Wind Burst and Squall Line coming at the same time? Move to your left/right.

That's fine for 10s but in 25s you don't have the luxury of moving left or right without chaining and potentially one-shotting 6 players,

[Deleted]

we're about 50 attempts in and are smoothing things out in p2 (our best is 35%). We are using 3 healers, we get through P1 about 20% of the time. The questions I have is if we can get through p1 wit h 3 healers should we continue this route? Where do you need the extra 4th healer I've seen top guilds recommend? And lastly is p3 just a joke as I've perceived it to be?

4 healers makes p1 and p2 easier, its doable with 3, but easier with 4. Also amount of immune classes can help determine wether 3 or 4 healers is required. I'd say having to few "reset classes" can be very rough if not impossible for 3 healers. Towards the end of p2 you'll be taking upwards of 10k dmg per second per person without an immunity.

Yes p3 is a joke, only thing you have to worry about is going up/down and moving for lighthing strikes. It shouldn't take you more than 0-5 attempts in p3 to down it. Mark a person and let him call out movement, then just stick to that target.

[Hotcandy]

some people are saying p2 is easier with an extra dps opposed to an extra healer? Personally i thought it would easier with the dps is why we've been doing it with 3 heals.

[Deleted]

http://www.paragon.fi/blogs/rng-not-excuse

[Chiasmus]

That's fine for 10s but in 25s you don't have the luxury of moving left or right without chaining and potentially one-shotting 6 players,

You can read the others posts in a thread before responding you know.

Also, one-shotting 6 players? Maybe you're thinking of the normal mode, but heroic mode works differently friend.

[Blacksen]

some people are saying p2 is easier with an extra dps opposed to an extra healer? Personally i thought it would easier with the dps is why we've been doing it with 3 heals.

Phase 2 is also easier with the extra healer. When the damage starts ramping up, you'll need it.