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  1. #41
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I want a change. I'm not saying it's perfect as it is, but it's just that Blizzard has to be very careful. Holy Priests are in a very good spot at the moment, and even a tiny change can upset the balance.
    Retired Holy Priest
    As a rule, I try to act on the internet as I would in real life. If I have offended you, feel free to point it out. Unless I meant to offend you, I will probably apologize.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Parishealton View Post
    Interesting Blue response regarding HW:Sanctuary http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/166343/hw-sanctuary

    I wonder what they will nerf in order to justify a decent buff for HW:S and holy Priests. IMO Holy is in a good place right now with so many spells you cant expect all if them to be excellent. Disc however has already had to contend with the PoH nerf a while back Id hate to see any of the priest shared healing spells nerfed to accomodate HW:S.

    .... and I think Holy Nova needs some Disco only love !!
    Tbh i disagree with the blue.. Holy is behind in most ways when looked at end game raid geared. There is too much dependance on our stat balance of spirit, intel and haste to ensure we can heal to the same extent either a druid or shaman can.. and lets face it.. why take a priest when paladins are actually better at every job now.

    the incoming buff to holy fire will make a new holy-atonement build highly attractive and will be my frst day after patch.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by ProBubble View Post
    Tbh i disagree with the blue.. Holy is behind in most ways when looked at end game raid geared. There is too much dependance on our stat balance of spirit, intel and haste to ensure we can heal to the same extent either a druid or shaman can.. and lets face it.. why take a priest when paladins are actually better at every job now.
    Holy is rock solid. If you're being replaced by a Druid/Shaman/Paladin, well, you have other problems. Less sky is falling, please.

    the incoming buff to holy fire will make a new holy-atonement build highly attractive and will be my frst day after patch.
    What?
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by ProBubble View Post
    the incoming buff to holy fire will make a new holy-atonement build highly attractive and will be my frst day after patch.
    I hope you're trolling because atonement is tier 3 disc...

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Vicarious View Post
    I hope you're trolling because atonement is tier 3 disc...
    Either he's trolling or he meant Archangel. I pray to God he means Archangel. We don't need any more trolls in the world.

  6. #46
    except archangel is soooo bad that only people who need it for mana return pick it up even as disc

    there's many other things wrong with archangel as holy but it hurts my brain to think about it

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Vicarious View Post
    except archangel is soooo bad that only people who need it for mana return pick it up even as disc

    there's many other things wrong with archangel as holy but it hurts my brain to think about it
    Here's where you're wrong.

    Archangel is not used for a Mana return. It is a net mana loss. People as Discipline use it because it's "combo points" as Spiritus put it, towards a 15% increased output healing cooldown.

    Priests don't have Tidal Waves, Nature's Swiftness, Tree of Life, Guardian of the Ancient Kings, or Avenging Wrath. No, we don't have any of that at all. Divine Hymn's pathetic enough to not even count. What we do have is Archangel.

    Can Holy Priests glyph Divine Accuracy, and make use of Archangel? Surprisingly, yes. You'll be lower on the meters, but surprisingly during those times when the damage incoming is low-ish, trusting in your other healers to take care of it while you build a smite or two, weaving in for when the real damage is coming in, well... what do you give up for the chance to do that? 1% haste.

    Is 1% haste worth a situational 15% healing cooldown? Yes. Go ahead, continue spouting off on how there's "so many other things wrong" that you know nothing about.
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2011-03-30 at 01:27 AM.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Here's where you're wrong.

    Archangel is not used for a Mana return. It is a net mana loss. People as Discipline use it because it's "combo points" as Spiritus put it, towards a 15% increased output healing cooldown.

    Priests don't have Tidal Waves, Nature's Swiftness, Tree of Life, Guardian of the Ancient Kings, or Avenging Wrath. No, we don't have any of that at all. Divine Hymn's pathetic enough to not even count. What we do have is Archangel.

    Can Holy Priests glyph Divine Accuracy, and make use of Archangel? Surprisingly, yes. You'll be lower on the meters, but surprisingly during those times when the damage incoming is low-ish, trusting in your other healers to take care of it while you build a smite or two, weaving in for when the real damage is coming in, well... what do you give up for the chance to do that? 1% haste.

    Is 1% haste worth a situational 15% healing cooldown? Yes. Go ahead, continue spouting off on how there's "so many other things wrong" that you know nothing about.
    or you could not jump down peoples throats without reading two separate lines of text

    as disc atonement spec you don't spec archangel because it is a HEALING LOSS(5 stack evangelism is more healing bonus on atonement than 15% archangel buff) for a small temporary mana gain that is actually a mana loss in most scenarios for having to build back up the stacks so unless you plan to make use of inner focus and one of your hymns and the buff would drop you don't even use it

    separate thought

    as holy you have to sacrifice glyph of mass dispel/dispel magic to hit cap smite and 3 talent points not 1% haste

    then you have to start stacking it up probably 30 seconds ahead of time if you want to weave them in at a minimal healing loss before the real damage (as opposed to the fake damage in the rest of the fight) for a 15% increase thats far and away better than divine hymn that you totally discount even though its mana efficient and boosts healing done nearly as much for much less effort. Can you use archangel? sure. Will I as it is now? no, It would need to at least be mana efficient for me to agree to jump through the hoops for it although it would be easier for them to just add heal to the list of things that stack it

    So before you come in with your holier than thou(no pun intended) reflecting of your own bad assumptions about a priest spell onto my comment on archangel take it down a notch and pretend for a moment you don't think you're better than everyone else here
    Last edited by Vicarious; 2011-03-30 at 02:12 AM. Reason: added quote for relevance

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Vicarious View Post
    as disc atonement spec you don't spec archangel because it is a HEALING LOSS(5 stack evangelism is more healing bonus on atonement than 15% archangel buff) for a small temporary mana gain that is actually a mana loss in most scenarios for having to build back up the stacks so unless you plan to make use of inner focus and one of your hymns and the buff would drop you don't even use it
    That's if you're using it on cooldown, yes. You don't use it on cooldown. You use it as a throughput buff. Healers don't have Patchwerk fights where they pour everything they can, linearly on a spreadsheet, and cycling through cooldowns/trinkets counts towards output. Chimaeron, for example, has low healing requirements, low healing requirements, low healing requirements, and then OH SNAP requirements.

    How many more fights in this tier count for similar types of burst healing requirements? Does that 5 stack of Evangelism apply to Greater Heals? Prayer of Healing/Mending? Can you use Atonement during such burst healing phases? Not really, that's not the point of it. Which is why 15% output on those is better than 5 stacks of Evangelism onto Atonement, during those phases.

    as holy you have to sacrifice glyph of mass dispel/dispel magic to hit cap smite and 3 talent points not 1% haste
    One fight that you use Mass Dispel on isn't really worth a major glyph. Dispel Magic, similarily, the heal on the glyph isn't make or break. Infact, the major that I got rid of was Psychic Scream, which I was holding onto for burning through 5 mans with undergeared alts.

    3 talent points? 1 from the Shadow Tree, and then either Blessed Resilience, Tome of Light, or Spirit of Redemption+1. Nothing gamebreaking to the Holy Tree, really. So really, 1% haste.

    then you have to start stacking it up probably 30 seconds ahead of time if you want to weave them in at a minimal healing loss before the real damage (as opposed to the fake damage in the rest of the fight) for a 15% increase thats far and away better than divine hymn that you totally discount even though its mana efficient and boosts healing done nearly as much for much less effort.
    Actually, I can use Smite up to a minute and twenty seconds before hand, hell I can stretch out one archangel over three minutes if I don't need to, simply because Evangelism has 20 seconds. And having anywhere in 20 seconds to squeeze in a 2.2 second cast isn't really that difficult, in low damage environments, isn't that difficult to do. Low damage environments, where people can be topped up by Atonement, Heal, ticking HoTs, residual splash healing, whatever. It's low priority. I never said it was "fake" damage, I said "real" damage where your job as raid-stability, is where you should be focusing your time. No one's going to die under low-priority top-up damage. People die when burst comes in, that's where Archangel fits. So yes, there is a distinction, hence the term "real damage".

    And Divine Hymn doesn't do enough, for its eight minute cooldown. It heals half of what Tranquility does, on three targets when Tranq hits five.

    Can you use archangel? sure. Will I as it is now? no.
    Again, that's your choice. It's not for everyone, certainly not in these environments.

    So before you come in with your holier than thou(no pun intended) reflecting of your own bad assumptions about a priest spell onto my comment on archangel take it down a notch and pretend for a moment you don't think you're better than everyone else here
    My own bad assumptions? you're the one who said taking Archangel was all kinds of bad.
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2011-03-30 at 02:48 AM.
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  10. #50
    Right now it is NEVER efficient to use in any situation. Even on heavy aoe fights like heroic Al'akir which we downed yesterday for server first! It just doesn't heal enough for the mana cost. Just spamming PoH is more efficient and more effective. Lower the mana cost or increase the healing. I have never used that spell on any heroic boss. With druids getting a ridiculous buff to tranquility AND Efflorescence (which has no cast time and a much shorter cooldown), it is only fair that it is buffed. Divine Hymn could use a little as well.

  11. #51
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramennoodleking View Post
    I wouldn't mind seeing it changed completely. Maybe make it to where anyone inside the circle recieves x% more healing from the priest who casts it, as long as they remain inside, but sanctuary itself does no healing.
    Now there is a thought - I like that idea. Would make using PoM and CoH awesome
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2011-03-30 at 04:21 AM.

  12. #52
    State of Mind: Reduces the mana cost of your AE spells by 15/30% when standing in a Sanctuary, and reduces the cast time of your Greater Heal by 0.25/0.5s on targets affected by Serenity.
    Last edited by Darkener; 2011-03-30 at 04:50 AM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Spike` View Post
    if they buff sanctuary prepare for a nerf on prayer of healing or circle of healing

    like they said, holy aoe is where they want it to be, so if want a buffed sanctuary = nerfed x or y

    This.
    Be careful what you wish for, you might end up with a nerfed PoH and get a slightly buffed sanctuary in return that still is not worth casting,
    or worse, a CD on PoH.

    Better leave it like it is: a sparkly golden circle that immediately shows you when you have a bad priest healer.

  14. #54
    They really only only have 4 options with the spell.

    1. Reduce the ridiculous mana cost and leave the healing as is.
    2. Increase the healing done but leave the mana cost as is.
    3. Reduce the CD on it (be able to refresh it when it expires) and leave the mana cost as is.
    4. A combination of the 3 above.

    I am personally thinking 1&3.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucapa View Post
    Better leave it like it is: a sparkly golden circle that immediately shows you when you have a bad priest healer.
    That immediately shows you who can't think outside the box beyond a 2.2 second cast time? Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxpowr
    I am personally thinking 1&3.
    That would turn it into Healing Rain, which Blizzard just reiterated "Sanctuary isn't Healing Rain".

    Reducing the mana cost by 15% would be a good stretch, leaving its output and its cooldown as is.
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  16. #56
    As a question, as Disc, if you plan to use Atonement, doesn't the spec require Archangel?

    OT: I use it on Maloriak during the Scorching Blast ability as once it's down I can spam PoH and PoM to help boost up the feeling.
    <-- That is otterly adorable.

  17. #57
    Archangel isn't never good but it isn't as good as you make it sound, my opinion, I'm sure you wouldn't mind it being buffed in some way, if you prefer i can rephrase what i said as it has many negative factors that I believe outweigh the trade off

    Divine Hymn could be better sure it could be tranq but it isn't, the uses it serves and the clever things you can combine it with make it fine and it cant be cast aside like you make it sound you do (the bad assumptions I mentioned)

    Its all relative to your comp what raid 10 or 25 and how you play what you feel is worth giving up and what you want to stay, if you have 2 spriests and 2 holy priests you have a divine hymn for every fued phase for heroic chimeron for example when everyone gets picked up to full and stays over 50-60% the whole time they need to I don't worry about preping another 15%, just me

    And my point on the glyphs and talents is that its what they are added together exchanged for one situational tool

    There are a LOT of different holy builds around for many reasons and many are valid, not many people try archangel and I'll applaud your effort to try new things. It just Isn't there for me in its current implementation, we can both be right you know

    Kelesti, we are way off topic so I'm going to not continue to derail the thread, but if you still think I know nothing and want to have a hot debate about it in PMs go for it

  18. #58
    I don't think it will be some major change and I don't want this tbh, because then we will to OP in aoe healing and something else would be nerfed right after this buff. Personally I like the idea with +% healing from priests. I think they should increase cd, leave mana cost, dont change healing done but add (you prayers spells are stronger on targets standing in sanctuary)


    Quote Originally Posted by ProBubble View Post
    Tbh i disagree with the blue.. Holy is behind in most ways when looked at end game raid geared. There is too much dependance on our stat balance of spirit, intel and haste to ensure we can heal to the same extent either a druid or shaman can.. and lets face it.. why take a priest when paladins are actually better at every job now.

    the incoming buff to holy fire will make a new holy-atonement build highly attractive and will be my frst day after patch.
    The part with paladin being able to do every job better is the funiest thing I've read today. Actaully priests can do every job better than paladins. Their single target hps is not much better than ours (without beacon ofc), our cd is better and we provide 10% dmg mitigation with crits and we have hots, bubbles and other shit. And in aoe raid healing paladins just sucks big time, they have holy radiance which is mostly spell that top people when shaman/priests secure their hp on proper %. And if you look at state of dps site the difference in hps is minimal and hps doesnt say almost anything in terms which healer is more/less usefull
    The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Reducing the mana cost by 15% would be a good stretch, leaving its output and its cooldown as is.
    just make it an instant cast so it benefits from mental agility, problem solved ^^

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    That immediately shows you who can't think outside the box beyond a 2.2 second cast time? Right.
    Nope! Sanctuary is bad in every situation unless you are at full mana and there is still a Mana Tide Totem down. Seriously, it is terrible. Never worth the mana cost.

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