DPS Scaling, Getting out of hand?

[JabJack]

definitely, we've gone from players doing 400dps(vanilla) to 2000dps(TBC) to 10k(WoTLK) to 25,000(Cata).

Tbht his is most likely due to the health pool scaling to reduce burst in pvp =/.
Id personally prefer if it were to go back down to players having sub-10k hp, but having the scaling reduced to match, otherwise with the next expansion we'll be seeing people with 500k hp and pulling 50k dps.
It's going to make all the content below the current expansion obsolete and a complete joke.

Content will get out dated no matter what you do, get over it. I'd rather progress with the expansion, then sit at the same dps through out the whole expansion.


OT: yes dps is a little high but it has to be, to compensate with the higher health pools as stated above.

[Pieterman]

I lol'd. You're about an expansion to late with this thread.
Endgame vanilla some people could pull out 1500 dps, at the absolute max
Endgame TBC some rogues managed to get pretty close to 3k on brutallus. At the start of wotlk people did about 5k, and at the end of wotlk about 15k (not counting the 30% buff). Now in cataclysm I'm generally seeing people do 17k max, some top guild players going over 20k.

TL;DR DPS scaling got out of hand in WotLK, it's not that bad in cataclysm

PS. people pulling 6k in blues are just very very bad at their class.

[Shuyin]

Try to remember this isn't a thread about how bad a player is if there doing dps sub whatever, its about the scaling.

the problem is that you compared really bad players (on my mage fresh dinged 85 with no gems, enchants or reforging i do 10-12k single target, so 6k is just bad) to good and/or well geared players (on my paladin full 359 with some 372 my sustained dps is 24k, 2k margin error because of rng, without any funny mechanic).

also if we compare a full 333 geared to a full 359 geared it's 2 tiers of difference AND the numbers you said can only be real if the blue geared is from 5 mans and the epic geared is from 25 man raids (more buffs). and don't forget that, unless Blizzard decided to discard this decision, later tiers will require higher rating to get the same values we have in old tiers so that will keep us around the same values through all the expansion.

P.S.
"This guy is very correct, in Wotlk i remember seeing people doing 2k Dps in heroics as opposed to easily 15K+ in ICC."
bad dps in 5 mans opposed to average players raid buffed with 30% damage buff

[Lao_tzu]

Ok for an example then lets say 8K entry level DPS - unbuffed on a target dummy, not unlikely.

Top geared players doing 24K this is still a 3x increase over the first tier, its already possible to round up and AOE most heroic dungeons even without epic gear.
How long before we can by-pass alot of the raid mechanics, that was largly impossible in TBC due to the Limited gear scaling (and gear availability)

[tru]

Sub 6k? Is that auto attacking? Bad players will always be bad. At fresh 85 I was pushing 10-15k depending on the situation. Are you really surprised that gear 26 iLevels higher and raid buffs would be able to push it above 25k?

Sorry but yer stupid feller
No fresh 85 pushes that much dps. if that was the case you musta skiped heroics and went straight to raiding then eh
Since your lil snood sub 6k auto atk remark im going to assume you play a rogue and yes they can auto atk and do great things
I have about 5 fresh 85s i haven't put much time into. they run from about 7k-10k from the worst green gear to the better green/blue
Wars/Rets/DKs for most part anyone who relies on weapon damage so much is going to do shit garbage at 85. know why? cause they have shit weapons.
Casters require gear to do great things so your logic is just flawed all around

[Deleted]

Ok for an example then lets say 8K entry level DPS - unbuffed on a target dummy, not unlikely.

Top geared players doing 24K this is still a 3x increase over the first tier, its already possible to round up and AOE most heroic dungeons even without epic gear.
How long before we can by-pass alot of the raid mechanics, that was largly impossible in TBC due to the Limited gear scaling (and gear availability)

If the dps is that good to allow you to bypass some raid mechanics, then so be it. I'd love to run valiona hc with 2 moonkins, 2 afflocks, mage, sub rogue and ret pally, just to get it down in like 3 minutes and limit the bullshit RNG.

[Brael]

It's going to make all the content below the current expansion obsolete and a complete joke.

Like it isn't already?

As others have said, people doing 6k dps is more to do with the player than the scaling, any class i've got at 85 so far i've done 10k+ starting out.

[Deleted]

Well, you're comparing extremely bad players in bad gear with really good players in full heroic raid gear. We're talking about an ilvl jump from 320 to 372. When cata was released, decent players did about 10k when they dinged 85. Now, you get a 15% buff as well. Anyone doing below 6k simply sucks.

[Shuyin]

Sorry but yer stupid feller
No fresh 85 pushes that much dps.

YOU don't. others do.
the point of the thread is that the assumed dps in blue gear was too low and the gap isn't that big and wont get bigger if the rating change from tier to tier goes live

[Gavenrod]

Damage scaling definitely feels like it's out of hand. I've tried not using cooldowns on boss fights, and nothing's more agonizing than waiting to actually get into the fight. So I don't queue as DPS anymore, instead I queue as a healer.

Damage expectations from players is also scaling. I've seen some hilarious situations involving pug raid leaders anticipating a certain amount of damage, no matter your role for that particular fight.

Despite the devs telling us that they want Arena matches to be extended fights, it's still possible to activate cooldowns and bring someone down in a matter of 3-4 GCD's. (This is versus opponents rocking more than 3200+ resilience.)

[Strykie]

Kinda weird that i was doing 10-12k with leveling greens/blues (300-333ilvl) the day i hit 85?

Doing 20k DPS Full raid buffed in ICC (30%) on Heroic LK 25 = ~ 15k DPS without.
Doing 21k DPS Full raid buffed vs Chogall Heroic

[sithorion]

The reason the scaling seems like a big difference is because of the huge stat nerfs when you hit 85. My warrior had 45% crit unbuffed at lvl 80, but now he can barely break the 20% in full 346 with some epics. The more gear you get though, the more stats you gain, and the better your rotation will work out.
Also remember that end Wotlk we had a 30% buff, giving people the chance to do 21k bursts on LK hc 25. That was with rogues having 100% arp and >50% crit. Now, your attacks are hitting harder, but you critt less and you hit less often(haste). Also do you have to sacrifice a lot of direct dps increase stats lke crit and haste to get your caps on expertise and hit. This will fade the better your gear will be, but it is certainly an issue in begin gear. Thus, your overall dps will be significantly lower when you have ilvl of 329.

Also, you have to take in account that the multiplier ain't that big as you think.

for example: in Wotlk you did around 1.5/2k as avg player in heroics. In naxx raids, you did around 3/4k. This is a multiplier of 2.

now, you do around 10k as avg player in heroics, whereas you do 15k in BoT/BWD raids. This is a multiplier of 0.5.

(note: these are random numbers, and are for average, casual players. Don't flame on me with LAWL you did 3k in naxx you slacker, I did much more. GFY, but I wasn't talking about very good players)

[Soulstainer]

well half the people posting here are talking about bought epics and player made level 85 gear while some players are talking about having quest blues at best. Sub 6k is what I see in just about every regular instance I go into with the exception of some melee classes and tanks. I tank regulars for friends on a regular basis and I am usually the ONLY player (tank in quest blues with a few nicer pieces ) that breaks 8k EVER! My mage in pvp gear breaks 12k single target but thats ILvl 350+ my friend who plays a boomkin can do 50k dps on trash packs and about 17k on single target raid bosses with no drops from reg raiding yet. Believe it or not not every single player has 40k gold (on my PoS server) to fully gear a brand new 85 with the best bought stuff. And alot of classes get insane dps in crap lvl 85 greens (saw a hunter doing 17k dps in greens was really stupid though he is rather skilled) while some classes (affliction lock) can barely pull 8k in dungeon blues with bought epics (same skill lvl as hunter and I know both personally). Reason for this is due to affliction lock being nerfed into the ground while hunters received some buffs.

OT yes dps scaling is completely retarded right now mainly due to the huge health pools players have for pvp purposes. in Wrath I have seen feral druids do 18k dps in a heroic instance while in ICC they could easily do 30k. My mage in wrath with a 5k gearscore could do 8200 dps outside of ICC but only 7kish in ICC due to movement fights (12k on saurfang). Blizzard lives by the ideology that bigger is always better which in most cases is the wrong way to go.

[Deleted]

Kinda weird that i was doing 10-12k with leveling greens/blues (300-333ilvl) the day i hit 85?

Doing 20k DPS Full raid buffed in ICC (30%) on Heroic LK 25 = ~ 15k DPS without.
Doing 21k DPS Full raid buffed vs Chogall Heroic

Also 20k on LK HC. Was doing 7-8k on release day and struggling to do more. By the end of release week in pretty much full blues (still mainly green gems/minimal enchants) I ranked 1 on Chogall normal was just over 17k. Now in 10 heroics I'm doing 30k on V&T Heroic (DI, no 10% sp buff, mage buff, 3% dmg buff). Playing corrupted moonkin on cho'gall so I won't paste those numbers. 21k sounds low for an spriest in your gear though (guessing not even top200 on wol)... You outgear me by a mile now lol. Whats your dps like on V&T?

[kosuko]

The player that does sub 6k dps in shit gear, will never reach more then 20k in end-raid gear. Just. not.

doing 21k on BH as 359 ilvl destro lock. I'm not sure how high that can get with 372 gear but seeing how im already over 20k im guessing 25 is possible, depening on reaching the immolate haste softcaps and raid buffs. (tricks, DI, Focus magic etc.)

[DeanyKong]

I don't find it too unreasonable. It just further separates the adequate from the horrible. I never dropped below 10k while leveling (Spell power always scales properly!) and I now do about 17k without even having half epics.

Granted, seeing someone do 2k DPS is far more enraging now that the ceiling is so high.

[Brince]

With my lock alt i'm doing something like 10-12k dps in random dungeons and my gear is quite low. I think that an avarage player will go from 9-13k (depends on class) to 18-22k.

[ogspider]

so ur saying the difference in dps a bad player in bad gear can do vs a good player in good gear should be less noticeable.... yup take away any indicators of skill and reward mediocrity good gameplan

[Slagge]

doing 21k on BH as 359 ilvl destro lock. I'm not sure how high that can get with 372 gear but seeing how im already over 20k im guessing 25 is possible, depening on reaching the immolate haste softcaps and raid buffs. (tricks, DI, Focus magic etc.)

I really dont think that is what this thread is about.

[Otaka]

This guy is very correct, in Wotlk i remember seeing people doing 2k Dps in heroics as opposed to easily 15K+ in ICC.

thats because icc has 30% dmg buff.....