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  1. #1
    Immortal roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Why do people ignore normal raid difficulty?

    I see threads all the time that say "I like LFR, but I wish it was harder and more rewarding"

    Do they not know normal mode exists? The only difference between LFR and Normal Raiding is that in Normal you have to form the group yourself, it's not done for you.

    Do people need a guide on how to use the LFG feature? Because I would be happy to put one together. If that isn't it. What is the appeal of LFR over normal mode, I would like to know, because I don't get it. Is it simply that the group is formed for you?
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    The only difference between LFR and Normal Raiding is that in Normal you have to form the group yourself
    Not really. The tuning is very different. To break it down very roughly:

    LFR: You can not wipe almost at all in almost all encounters unless you go completely afk
    Normal: You will wipe if you do repeated major mistakes on average gear for it
    Heroic: You will wipe with a couple of major mistakes on average gear for it.
    Mythic: You will wipe on one major mistake on average gear for it

  3. #3
    I dont see that many ppl say they want lfr to be harder? But yeah you cant really have more than half the raid afk in normal. LFR also has determination, so by 10 stacks most grps should be able to complete it

  4. #4
    Yes, it's simply that the group is formed for you. It's also the fact that in order to do normal you need to have some sort of basic interaction with other people, something which sadly the majority of players is no longer capable of doing.

    That's why you often see some allstars in these forums asking to make all difficulties queuable.

  5. #5
    In any case it's a nice difficulty to promote for the casuals, even if I don't believe it's as easy as LFR. Heroic often has a lot of people that really go just for the gear. Normal is more fun really when it's just a pug because you will find people that are there for the basic raiding experience and not for any immediate end that justifies any means. For that reason I would support some more promotion of it for the most casual players. It has a nice balance for them. You will wipe if you do very important mistakes repeatedly, but, because of the nature of the tuning, you can still carry a couple of consecutive mistakes, they will rarely wipe and they are healable usually and most of those people will understand some of the basics and in a very short time you can have a killable boss for them. That tuning might be a bit more hard core if you go in with the absolute entry gear, e.g. right on the first week of an expansion's raid launch but I think that's not an issue because the main bulk of the people will be raiding there - and in any difficulty - with slightly better gear than the entry gear.

  6. #6
    I'd much rather they get rid of LFR, then let the LFR queue system build groups for normal. No determination. Gold PG required.

  7. #7
    I think Normal is largely redundant. A better option would be a single flex difficulty which begins easy on the lower bosses then ramps up in difficulty the further you get into the instance. They can add portal quests like HFC's to allow players to skip further into the raid if they desire but I would recommend against ramping the ilvl of the gear like HFC's... instead offering better itemized gear further inward and perhaps a slight ilvl increase on endgame bosses.

    To me, with tier coming back into the LFR the need for four separate raid difficulties just seems a bit extraneous.

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I think Normal is largely redundant. A better option would be a single flex difficulty which begins easy on the lower bosses then ramps up in difficulty the further you get into the instance. They can add portal quests like HFC's to allow players to skip further into the raid if they desire but I would recommend against ramping the ilvl of the gear like HFC's... instead offering better itemized gear further inward and perhaps a slight ilvl increase on endgame bosses.

    To me, with tier coming back into the LFR the need for four separate raid difficulties just seems a bit extraneous.
    Heroic is quite challenging on entry gear or slightly more than entry gear. For a very casual player it can be very strenuous. Normal does have a place because while it can be challenging on entry gear, it won't be crashing the dreams of most casual players that want to try to do it.

    One could argue LFR is not even a difficulty because it would insult the meaning of the word difficulty, it's mainly "story mode", with some minor exceptions (they usually make the final boss slightly harder for a week or two).

  9. #9
    At this point in the tier you can skip normal with the VP nerfs (not that I'd recommend it, for tier bonuses/trinkets)

    At the start of the tier it was definitely worth doing, as guilds of all BRF progression levels were in it that first couple of months

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    What is the appeal of LFR over normal mode, I would like to know, because I don't get it. Is it simply that the group is formed for you?

    You press a button and you're in a group, 24/7/365. No BS. Not a hard concept to understand.
    Last edited by ablib; 2016-05-28 at 11:15 PM.

  11. #11
    I liked flex better.

    3bosses you can kill in less than an hour. Do another wing another time.

    Normal is just another real raid and made me hate pugging with sitting more time waiting in group to replace ppl/fill group/... than actually killing stuff.
    Just the same as heroic raid pugging, but with people with fewer gear or skills...

    Actually this is the biggest reason a lot of people ignore them, many people can't play the game a couple of hours in a row. Stuff like mythic dungeons they can do on the other hand. By the time the group is formed for normal mode HFC, they've already cleared the dungeon.

  12. #12
    With farming in Tanaan leaving your Ilvl at 705 including valor upgrades, the only thing worth anything is the tier gear from normal. Heroic has the upgrades, that's why people farm that over normal.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Fincayra View Post
    With farming in Tanaan leaving your Ilvl at 705 including valor upgrades, the only thing worth anything is the tier gear from normal. Heroic has the upgrades, that's why people farm that over normal.
    Yeah, valor upgrades + mythic dungeon gear have made it pretty easy to just skip over normal mode now-a-days. Granted it would still be worth doing it IMO for trinkets + four piece before you enter into heroic.

  14. #14
    Maybe because LFR is actually harder than normal. Normal and heroic modes are overrated while LFR is underrated. I've heard many pro players say that LFR and Mythic should be the only options available.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by woopytywoop View Post
    I liked flex better.

    3bosses you can kill in less than an hour. Do another wing another time.

    Normal is just another real raid and made me hate pugging with sitting more time waiting in group to replace ppl/fill group/... than actually killing stuff.
    Just the same as heroic raid pugging, but with people with fewer gear or skills...

    Actually this is the biggest reason a lot of people ignore them, many people can't play the game a couple of hours in a row. Stuff like mythic dungeons they can do on the other hand. By the time the group is formed for normal mode HFC, they've already cleared the dungeon.
    They don't have to make wings that force you out. There can be physical wings in the raid. HFC has that because of the ground, first and upper flloors and in fact that's how a lot of people do them because it's really strenuous to do them all, and in fact it's not a good idea to take people that can only do up to Gorefiend and then go upper.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    LFR is actually harder than normal.
    Can you describe what you mean? I've never seen that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    LFR and Mythic should be the only options available.
    How would you gear before you enter mythic?

  16. #16
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    People ignore it because if they want to raid, they usually are in a guild and guilds don't do Normal except usually to farm them for tier sets early on.

    If it was faster/smoother to make a pug for Normal, I imagine people would do it more. I assume that's the reason people don't bother but I don't actually know. It sounds like a real and believable reason.
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  17. #17
    Well lets see now and days when you PuG for normal people are usually there for like 1 boss or 2, then if what they want doesn't drop they up and leave and you're in LFG feature forever, then people get impatient, because heavenforbid raiding take longer than 5min. Once 1 or 2 leave, then its more people to find, all of which are just chilling in their garrison yet ask for a summons or take forever to get to HFC, in which case, a few more leave because they've had to wait for 10min now and it just keeps falling apart and next thing you know the 30-1hr+ that you've spent in using the LFG tool yourself to even get into a raid results in 1-2 kills that got you nothing other than the stats of having the kills. Thus why they like LFR even more, if you're not raiding with your guild the average player has bad luck in PuGs. Lack of communication, people that should never be beyond LFR difficulty level, all the stuff stated above and it just makes it a crappy way for your day/night to go.

  18. #18
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    If a guild is not really ready or capable of doing Mythic, Normal is a stepping-stone to get there. The same hold true for Heroic and Mythic difficulty. So both Normal and Heroic aren't really endpoints for organized raiding although that's more true of Normal than maybe Heroic.

    As for LFR, it's a guaranteed seat to see a raid wing without having to prove to anyone that you're good enough or if you're someone who works days and plays mainly at 2:00 a.m. server time. It's a no-hassle way to see raids without having to put up with what is clearly a community that doesn't respect Normal raiding in any significant way.

    More importantly, for many LFR is also an endpoint; many don't go any further nor have any intention of ever doing so. So there are two difficulties that qualify as end game for a lot of people: LFR and Mythic. Normal isn't any such thing and Heroic for many is something to get through to try Mythic. Which leaves the two middle difficulties in a bad spot.
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  19. #19
    Moderator Djriff's Avatar
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    I notice it a lot when I pug. Annoying when i'm trying to get a trinket or a piece of tier for an alt. Thankfully in legion LFR has tier, so that makes it easier to grab.

    As for why people ignore it, coming from mythic BRF you already outgeared 80% of normal HFC, so might as well go for Heroic. Once you do a full clear or two of heroic, you definitely have no reason to go to normal except for tier/trinkets and only if it's a worthwhile upgrade over the stuff you had from BRF. It also doesn't help that there is 4 raid difficulties, with a large jump from LFR to Normal and an even bigger jump from Heroic to Mythic.
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  20. #20
    But, normal require to have few social interactions, it's sooo shit compared to MoP LFR

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