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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire sargior's Avatar
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    10N Garrosh Help

    Hi Guys

    My guild is up to garrosh 10N and our dps is not strong enough to skip 2nd heart phase. So as soon as Garrosh does his first empowered whirlwind the healers cant keep up and we wipe.

    Have a 554 resto druid and 556 shaman both without cloaks(iknowright). We have only had a few attempts so far and instead of wasting everyone's time I want to know if I have to sit one out for a better geared player or can it be done with this gear?

    When I ran healer instead of my arms warrior we didnt have enough dps to clear the first heart phase before 25 energy. We ran a fresh run last night hoping to gear up some people but nearly everything was unwanted.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...npewpew/simple
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...oodstar/simple

    We spread out for emp ww and where not in desecrate. Warriors had banner on cd and healers didn't use tranq or healing tide so we still have tricks to use to survive the emp ww although with the boss only at 35% hp and with another phase 2 go I'm not sure how long they can hold up.

    Raid make up was
    1x DK Tank - 567
    2x Frost mages - 560
    1x Warlock 570
    1x Warlock 559 (was pug)
    1x Hunter 568
    2x arms warrior 564
    1x resto druid 554
    1x resto shaman 556

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    The group should be fine, Arms Warrior at that progress/gear level is a strong spec for NM Garrosh, no reason to sit it out (though no need for 2 of them either). Most the pug groups that I do on normal mode Garrosh will solo tank it with 3 healers. I've done it a few times with 2 tanks + 2healers with success too, as well as 1 tank + 2heal. Melee dps is pretty decent on the fight.

    Biggest thing that usually catches out lesser geared/experienced groups is interupting the mind controlled players and dealing with personal adds, higher damage completely negates the requirement to interupt by simply bursting them down before they can cast, it also pretty much completely negates the adds on normal mode. My guild killed it just over a year ago at ilvl 551 average with 1 tank + 2 healers, but you have more gear than that in your dps so can afford a 3rd healer to give you the cushion.

    I can speak from personal experience as a Warrior. You should stay at the boss and keep dpsing for the Whirling Corruption (even the empowered if you're not too melee heavy, especially with a DK tank as his Bloodworms going pop can fully heal you) and go defensive stance + use a defensive cooldown (either DBTS or Shield Wall), if you have Evil Eye you can definitely weave them in time for every Whirling Corruption. You should macro your Vigilance to the tank /cast [target=tankname) Vigilance and figure out a rotation for using Vigilance and using Demo Banner.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2014-10-09 at 01:44 AM.
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  3. #3
    What kind of tactic are you using?

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire sargior's Avatar
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    stack p1 kill enginere on red.
    Ping pong p2. drop axe at 1 point run to boss sort out mc then run to next axe drop point and kill the axe

    I think it may be possible to drop axes around the room and ignore them from p2 onward. I just went with the strat we all know best and the usual flex mode strat.

  5. #5
    All you need to do is get your raid leader to lay out a cooldown rotation for the whirls.

  6. #6
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    You should be fine w/ CDs if you get only one emp. whirl in phase 2. Getting the second one in phase 2 due to low DPS kinda if you are not very good, kills your raid.

    You just have to be super fast in the transition realms to do so. Only one which can lead to a wipe is the one with the 2 big split adds, there blowing one up and then the second has to be done very fast.

    But I would say that for emp. whirls - run a damage reduction CD + healing CD to stabilize the raid and you have the best healers for that, cause people don't have to be clumped up. As long as your warriors save their crys+banners for whirls there CDs doesn't need any healing to the side as a major CD, but if you shaman drops SLT then the extra healing CD should be used.

    Also your hunter can deterrence, mages iceblock and I am absolutely sure that warlocks can save their butts as well with something. IMHO poping a CD which doesn't allow you to DPS is still better then dieing due to damage.

    One thing to note however is, if people stand in the purple swirls which indicate the add spawn location when the add spawn, they take damage on top of the emp. whirl damage. So your people should watch for that as well.
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  7. #7
    From my experience as a long time pug healer, the most common cause of raid death with the emp whirls is that people dont spread out. You NEED to get out of the purple swirls, standing in two of them is a killer, besides, the adds needs to die separately and thats easier when people are not stacked to start with. The melee can be ok with some cds to help out, but ranged cannot stand bunched up in one spot.

    And as above, save CDs for that.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sekhmet View Post
    You NEED to get out of the purple swirls, standing in two of them is a killer, besides, the adds needs to die separately and thats easier when people are not stacked to start with.
    We have a winner - DO NOT STAND IN THE PURPLE when emp whirl hits, you can use a self cooldown - some are more powerfull then others but on a mage for example a simple temp. shield wont let you drop under 35 % except of course if you stand in the purple stuff This makes it way easier for the healers, also pop some cd's during the empowered whirls and don't ignore the adds if you are getting them in P3 if you say your damage is low

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sekhmet View Post
    From my experience as a long time pug healer, the most common cause of raid death with the emp whirls is that people dont spread out. You NEED to get out of the purple swirls, standing in two of them is a killer, besides, the adds needs to die separately and thats easier when people are not stacked to start with. The melee can be ok with some cds to help out, but ranged cannot stand bunched up in one spot.

    And as above, save CDs for that.
    This.

    Emp whirlwind in the n°1 cause of wipes on Garrosh because people start to panic and don't position right.

    Spread out in the same side of the room, healers must position themselves to be in range to heal everyone.

    Don't stand in purple shit (obviously) and kill adds separatedly. Some classes must use their taunts (arms warriors, hunter, druid) to spread minions (sometimes the tank has 4 minions on him, they need to be taunted so they don't become a super-add that will instakill the tank).

    Also, don't use dots or 6s long stuns on the players that are controlled by garrosh (be careful about mortal strike that applies deep wounds, this can tick for 150K...)

    Use minor defensive spells during whirlwind (def stance, etc)

    As a DPS warrior, you can tank anything for 10s thanks to Die by the Sword, so if a minion become empowered, you can taunt him to allow your mates to kill him while you parry everything.

  10. #10
    Grunt
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    You said you had tranq and HTT, remember HP stone. You need to remember that emp ww will also be in ph3 so learn to handle it. The ilvl should be okay. When I first killed him was first week when SoO was released but I belive we had 3 healers.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Jassinta's Avatar
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    If you don't already, you need to work out a raid wide cooldown roster. Any healing cooldowns or raid wide damage reductions need to be planned out, so everyone knows who's doing what and when, and that should massively help with damage.

    I think my guild 2 healed it with a shammy and a druid, but we have a feral druid and rogue which is 2 extra healing/dmg redu cooldowns right there. I don't think their gear is too low, provided they know what they're doing. Lack of a cloak doesn't mean a bad player

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  12. #12
    I think you may need to look at trying to optimise your dps to push those phases a bit harder. If your healers can comfortably heal through p1 stacked, without using CDs, then they shouldn't really be having issues with the empowered whirlings.

    When dropping the weapons in p2, try going straight to the 2nd stack point instead of moving to the middle for MCs. It cuts down on some movement time and just make sure melee/ranged take care of their respective groups to break the MC. Then revert back to stacking on the boss for p3 MCs as you were.
    Also, DoTs should be enough to bring the weapon down to only need a couple of hits from someone to kill it before the next one spawns. Make sure all ranged throw whatever DoTs they have at it and keep them refreshed, then if necessary just finish it off a few seconds before the next one is due. We would usually just assign that to 1 person so DPS on the boss isn't wasted.

    Like others have said in this post already, self-defensives are really key to surviving this fight. Your entire comp (with the exception of perhaps the shaman) have abilities they can use to save themselves and they should be using them. External CDs also and Lock Potatoes. Make sure you're communicating when they need to be ready with them - so sort a rotation for HST and Tranq etc, and call when they need to use them. Also make sure once they kill their add, they group back up to be topped off before then next desecrate and MC.

    On progression for us I think positioning during these phases was the cause of a lot of trouble. Once people stop panicking and running to China with their add, you should see a big improvement/less death.

  13. #13
    Your comp seems fine it might be helpful to swap out a warrior for a dps shami or a boomie as they can help your healers make it through big damage as both have enough op offheals to equal another healer and a half. As others have said you can make it after 1 emp whirl just spread out, pop cds, and single kill adds....or ignore them if your tank is a boss (provided no one has rediculous passive cleave) a geared tank can just chill with several of the adds on him without much ill effect but this way makes finding mcs a pain so your choice.

    As for making timers without a log or heck a ss of recount I can't say for certain by gear score alone you guys should be cool. If you need to squeak out a bit more damage in p2 to get him down faster you could try staying stacked up. This method might require a third healer to keep up with and ensuring a proper CD rotation from your raid as at least one weapon is at the same time as a whirl and it hurts without a tranq or ag or something major on top of EVERYONE popping something defensive.

  14. #14
    Apart from, maybe, your warriors, everyone in your Raid has the tools to survive at least one EWC without ANY outside healing.
    Just goddamn use it, its not hard to just take care of yourself as a DPS or heal.
    Stop using weird stack here but stay spreaded tactics, tell your people to:
    1. Spread
    2. Use a personal CD, selfhealing, and maybe healthstone to survive the ticking damage
    3. Move away from add impact location and quickly kill it
    4. return to the feet of the Boss and get healed up while waiting to break MC.

    As soon as people get that surviving empowered WC is not really about the raid effort with CDs etc but focus on their OWN survival, things should become a lot easier.

    Personally i never care where anybody else is standing during an EWC, i just make sure to survive it on my own, kill my add, and be done with it as a DPS.
    It really is that easy as long as you're far enough from the boss to reduce the damage taken to a manageble level.

  15. #15
    Your strat is leaving a bunch of dps on the table. Here's some tips to pick up a ton.

    Phase 1 - the only thing that matters here is that you all survive. So don't use cooldowns here until after he heals to full - there's a nice burn window when that happens.

    Phase 2 - killing the weapons is a waste - by leaving them up you get ~8% extra damage on Garrosh, plus no losses from switching. So pick a way to drop the weapons off to the side, and ignore them. We tank Garrosh where he lands after the transition, and make a '(' shape across one side of the room with the four weapons.

    Speaking of weapons, you only need 3 people at range to keep them out of melee. So pick a 3-man weapon team to drop them, and everyone else can sit right where they land and tunnel on Garrosh. They run to the first spot as soon as the transition ends, back in as soon as the weapon hits (for MC), then out after the MCs are broken and in after the weapons.

    For empowered whirlings, you should only kill the adds before phase 3. Once he heals for the last time just leave the adds alone. As long as they don't start dying they won't matter to your tank. Just be careful your tank doesn't AOE them, because his vengeance will blow them up.

    If you search my name, you'll see a couple write-ups of our complete strat, with replays so you can see our full movement pattern.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sargior View Post
    Raid make up was
    1x DK Tank - 567
    2x Frost mages - 560
    1x Warlock 570
    1x Warlock 559 (was pug)
    1x Hunter 568
    2x arms warrior 564
    1x resto druid 554
    1x resto shaman 556

    Sounds like you just need to coordinate your raid cooldowns during whirlwinds.

    You have 2 rallying cries, 2 banners, 1 tranq and 1 healing tide. Your 3 minute cooldowns can be used on every other whirlwind.

    So burn both a rally and banner on the 1st and 2nd one. For the empowered do the same but add a healing tide or tranq but be sure the healers move from their puddle prior to doing so.

    Spread out right before the empowered whirlwind starts. Then look at the ground and immediately move from the puddle/splash once it appears at your feet. The puddle registers as empowered whirling corruption. So if see that in your damage taken on Skada/Recount/Logs you know they are taking 100% avoidable damage.
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  17. #17
    I am Murloc! roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    You also want your deathknight to prefectly rotate his cooldowns, so his healing requirements are low. He should pop bone shield at 6-7 stacks, and AMS at 9-10 if it gets to 12, I blow a major.

    he should have as much mastery as possible
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  18. #18
    Ok i can see problem with druid. 19k spirit! That is just too much. Also ask does he have siegecrafters trinket? Because it is a lot better than Thoks in my opinion.

    http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/u...s/taurenpewpew

    Tell him to look at that. He can get max haste cap and he only loses useless spirit and 2.98% mastery. Totally worth it.

    Here is my druid: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rvelius/simple

    Chance to that hastecap will improve hes healing like crazy. Also he dont need cloak or gem to heal that. I have healed Garrosh with my druid without cloak and gems in about same ilvls. And we also used stacking P1 and P2.

    Shaman. Same thing. 15k spirit? Just why... I am pretty sure he could manage it with 9-11k. I am not an expert with shamans but i think they dont need that much spirit just more crit. http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/u...issan/hoodstar

    Now just plant how to use your def cooldowns and healers will sort their healing cooldowns.

    Druid: He can actually pop Hearth of The wild when first weapon drops in phase 1 and then he can use it again P3. He could also use Tranq at phase 2 first whirlwind and then again in first empowered whirlwind with spirit walkers grace (Symbiosis from shaman). He have incarnation what he could use at P2 second whirlwind to save some mana and again in phase 3. Druid should keep efflo on melee all the time and he should be handling them in whirlwinds. Melees should stay at boss in every whirlwind and just use raidwide and def cooldowns (warriors have lots of them). If they are about to die, druid will just bloom efflo and they are back to full HP.

    Speaking of efflo he should always drop it down first in transition phases and throw couple rejus to people so it will start to load up. Then just place it under garrosh and people should be inside it all the time. Before that transition phase ends he should always bloom it, because it will go back 0 when you go back to normal world.
    In phase 1 he can use efflo to top everyone up quickly after every iron star. Also use Stampeding Roar on transition where you are running with lots of little adds.

    Shaman: He should be handling rangeds on phase2 whirlwinds. Keep healing rain on ranged and use spirit link/healing tide to keep them up. He could also use them in phase 1 during weapons because in "my plan" druid will be using healing cooldowns on phase2 whirlwind number 1 and 2 so could take rest of them. Keep healing rain under garrosh on transitions and focus non tank players mostly. Tanks dont really take damage here.

    Warriors: They should make rotation on banners and tell on VOIP when they are putting them down. Using shieldwall, die by sword on whirlwinds on phase 2 whirlwinds will help them to be alive and keep nuking garrosh. They are also great on Empowered whirlwind adds because they can just taunt them off from players and seperate them. Throw vigilance on tank and taunt has now cooldown.

    During MC they can just use bladestorm+distrupting shout and thats it! Just dont use bloodbath same time or MS because it might get someone killed. Same goes for Jade serpent transition where they can each take their own side, charge in, pop bloodbath, bladestorm and adds are down.

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire Jassinta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by braeldiil View Post
    Phase 2 - killing the weapons is a waste - by leaving them up you get ~8% extra damage on Garrosh, plus no losses from switching. So pick a way to drop the weapons off to the side, and ignore them. We tank Garrosh where he lands after the transition, and make a '(' shape across one side of the room with the four weapons.

    For empowered whirlings, you should only kill the adds before phase 3. Once he heals for the last time just leave the adds alone. As long as they don't start dying they won't matter to your tank. Just be careful your tank doesn't AOE them, because his vengeance will blow them up.
    This is exactly how we do it and it works like a charm so long as everyone gets their act together. If you're having any difficulty with dps at all, then you don't want to have to kill those weapons and lose precious time on Garrosh. You can tank him where he lands, and the ranged then move out to the back wall, drop a weapon, and come back in for MC. Rinse and repeat with either your raid slowly moving across the room, or ranged making a semi circle around him like braeldil said. If you need more room, you can have 1 dps throw some dots on the weapon to decrease it's size so you have more room to play with, but really you don't need to bother killing it completely.

    In P3 you just move to the other side of the room that should be completely free of weapons if you did it correctly.

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  20. #20
    first off, in most guilds you wouldnt even be allowed to raid if you didnt have a cloak by now. but thats beside the point. the way we do it is stack for p1 and 2, killing weapons and engineers and adds like normal. im a paladin so i devo aura the first whirling, then we usually get one more during p2 before garry empowers, which a priest uses mass shield on. devo is up for the third (usually final) whirling which will be empowered, and we ignore adds/ move away from weapons and burn boss

    if the healers alternate cds on whirlings, tranq on imo the second or third one, and shaman using healing stream/spirit link on two of the others, it'd make a huge difference
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