Thread: Mythic Butcher

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  1. #1

    Mythic Butcher

    80 wipes now, just not getting it done, a lot of wipes sub 10% or at 10% Would love some people to tear apart our logs, I honestly think healing is low.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1706&wipes=1

  2. #2
    Glancing over your logs, I can say that your healing seems to be fine, there looks to be quite a big variance between your #1 DPS and your lowest.. That's the main issue that I see. Looking at your deaths on your closest attempts, I see that there are a few people dying early, so see if people are using personal cooldowns to reduce incoming damage at the right time to assist with the healing. But in all honesty, I'm looking at one attempt now and your highest DPS is 33k and your 3 lowest are 18k, 22k and 22k. If those lower DPS can pick it up a little bit, make sure they're pre-potting and timing their cooldowns properly, you should have it.

  3. #3
    I haven't yet tried the fight on mythic but i raid on a druid so looked at your druid's healing, couple thoughts:

    1. Harmony uptime is low, usually under 80%. That's costing him some heals.
    2. Doesn't seem like he's using wild growth as much as I'd think you want to and is casting too many rejuvs. On my most recent heroic butcher kill that was logged I cast wild growth 16 times in 4:16 and he usually casts 6 or fewer in your 4 minute attempts. Wild growth is more mana efficient that rejuv and heals for more as long as it doesn't overheal.
    3. I'd think he wants to keep wild mushroom up most of the fight, he's letting it drop a lot. With the glyph you can position it right on top of boss to heal both tanks and melee.
    4. Same thing on lifebloom. I see an attempt where it healed for 166k over 4 min with 20% overheal - I had a heroic attempt where I did 610k over 4 min with 11% overheal. Lifebloom is good to keep up to get clearcasting procs and preserve mana.
    5. Over 22 wipes he used nature's swiftness a total of 10 times. I'd think he should be using that 2-3X per attempt.
    6. He's dream of cenarius specced. Unless you really really need the minimal dps boost I'd think another talent would be better used here (vigil).

    These things may be wrong, I don't know mythic butcher, just some things to think about.
    Last edited by Tonus; Yesterday at 07:06 AM.

  4. #4
    Dreadlord Thete's Avatar
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    I can't really comment too much on healers, but there are some examples of general dumbfuckery going on. this includes a mage somehow getting cleaved, melee taking pale bombs, several people standing in vitriol, etc. Given that there's a lot of needless damage going out, I'd personally not be inclined to point the finger at healers. I'm not saying they are doing well, but when you have to heal damage that you shouldn't, there can be a domino effect on such a brutal and intense fight as this.
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  5. #5
    Field Marshal NadEFurY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thete View Post
    I can't really comment too much on healers, but there are some examples of general dumbfuckery going on. this includes a mage somehow getting cleaved, melee taking pale bombs, several people standing in vitriol, etc. Given that there's a lot of needless damage going out, I'd personally not be inclined to point the finger at healers. I'm not saying they are doing well, but when you have to heal damage that you shouldn't, there can be a domino effect on such a brutal and intense fight as this.
    This, so much.

    The moment such derps start going out it gets out of hand by slowly rolling into a problem that can't be recovered from.

    The fight is about perfect execution, which includes everyone, not the key players only, bear that in mind.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by kilj View Post
    80 wipes now, just not getting it done, a lot of wipes sub 10% or at 10% Would love some people to tear apart our logs, I honestly think healing is low.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1706&wipes=1
    breaking down the logs and taking your dps warrior (as its the class i play) to see basic fundamental errors mate, 1. his dps is worryingly low on most tries - then again he seems to die at around the 3.10-3.30 mark like clockwork

    he was in for 12 of the 22 tries

    Rally cry used - 6 times (3 min CD) - should be used 2 times per try - very early and then saved for enrage
    Vigilance used 7 times (2 min CD) - should be used 2 times per try
    Enraged Regen used 14 times (1 min CD) - should be used 3-4 times per try
    Die By The Sword used 3 times (2 min CD) - should be getting used 2 times per try (and on this fight should probably be glyphed to last longer)

    Well fed buff - 9 times for 12 pulls - means he went into 3 tries with no food buff
    Charge used 12 times over 12 pulls, means when the boss went over to the ranged grp to cleave them he was losing up time by not charging over and dpsing on the run back to his assigned stack point
    He's playing fury with a mastery enchant on his weapon???? why not crit?
    Hes used scabbard 23 times, recklessness 15 times - unless I'm mistaken they should always be used together
    If he's dying like clockwork at a certain point, why isn't he using defensive glyphs to help the problem and using personal cd's more, the ms glyph will boost healing received by 10% for effectively the entire fight - something he should be using.

    Don't mean to sound harsh, but hope that illustrates how the blaming healers thing is always the easiest option when theirs much much more every dps can do to make the fight a lot easier. likelihood is going through every person on the roster their will be a lot of similar cases of people not playing that sharp

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by kilj View Post
    80 wipes now, just not getting it done, a lot of wipes sub 10% or at 10% Would love some people to tear apart our logs, I honestly think healing is low.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1706&wipes=1
    There is quite a bit going wrong on most of these attempts. Our Shaman with less gear hovers around 60k HPS, Same with our Disc Priest(60k) and Holy Pally(60k). It also seems like your dps is slightly behind where it should be, when we killed the fight we had 9 DPS above 30k and only 4 below it. Is there any reason your mages aren't playing arcane????? Yes frost mages can kill the fight, but arcane mages should take some of the DPS requirements off of the rest of the raid. That being said, you guys are probably in the range where you can kill it, but you will need a really good attempt. Our raid did it with 673 ilvl overall (4 players at mid 660's) so the gear is definitely there. Your healing tonic/Healthstone usage as a raid is really really poor, I know that everyone of our dps is required to use a healing tonic(we have no locks) on most of the healing intensive fights.
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  8. #8
    Your WW monk is using Chi Explosion, pretty sure Serenity will be better, regardless of gear.

    Sub-10% wipes means it's not a healing issue, but a dps one; also, you're hitting enrage on 8 out of 22 attempts.
    You've got so many people dying during the fight, and generally some very poor dps in the bottom half of the meters. Getting the last 10% is not something you can do by just improving your execution of mechanics (i.e. not dying mid-fight); it's still a tight dps check for pretty much everyone on their first kill.
    Last edited by Freds1234; Yesterday at 09:51 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by kilj View Post
    80 wipes now, just not getting it done
    Hey man, gunna hijack your thread as well since you're getting some decent responses.

    Logs from today

    Disclaimers:
    • Some sub-ins/trials in the raid
    • Many attempts were called a wipe and we were asked to stand in purple
    • We are 50+ attempts in now and currently have the DPS to down it(looking at 'current dps' at the 40% mark).
    • Wipe dps is Wipe DPS, note we aren't hitting enrage often, half(most?) are above 30 before we start dying off.
    • Just can't seem to go into a strong execute phase with all the melee alive. Lack of strong execute phase I know personally effects how my DPS looks as a Fury.(Retributive)

    I'm open to any constructive responses. We should have it tomorrow but wanting to be as prepared as possible.

  10. #10
    @OP
    Well, the DPS in general is way too low first of all. You can't just miraculously find some hidden strategy if some of your DPS are at like 26k.

    For a change of pace, though, lets concentrate on the Brewmaster:

    First of all, misses like 5+ Keg Smashes on average. Misses Chi Waves as well, and especially misses boatloads of Expel Harms. The timing is also wrong and most of them aren't properly buffed by resolve when they are used, at least in what I'm reading. Judging by his energy graph in around 4 different attempts(that went up to 4min), He's below 50 energy for like 30s periods. That means that his general playstyle is completely wrong and he prioritizes jab way too highly. Also, he seems to be stacking like 90s of extra Shuffle at the end of the fights, yet he still hit multiple streaks of heavy stagger and tons of moderate stagger. In general he should be using Purifying Brew approximately twice as often as he is while significantly toning down on the Blackout Kicks. There's especially baffling moments when his damage taken is very high yet he still is using Blackout Kick(while having over 1min of Shuffle stacked) and seldomly using Purifying Brew. As for the DPS arguments - Yes, it is a DPS loss to use Purifying Brew so much but if you don't do that, you might as well play Chi Explosion.

  11. #11
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1706&wipes=1

    People are dying early and often. Several of the pulls have people dying ~1 minute in to random shit, then most of the deaths look to be post frenzy to cleaves. You pretty much have to chain either raid CDs, or personal CDs on the soak groups during frenzy or you'll just have people drop.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=156438

    Healing tonic usage is frankly, shit.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...1&ability=6262

    you have people that aren't locks using healthstones. Everyone that isn't a lock should have healing tonics. They heal for more than a healthstone if you're not a lock (and even then you need to have it glyphed for it to be worth as a lock). On a fight where people are dropping to predictable things and not using healing tonics... yeah.

    dps is a little low. Most of this is due to them dying probably. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1706&wipes=1

    look through that page, it has some stuff that you might want to look at.
    Last edited by britishbubba; Yesterday at 10:12 AM.

  12. #12
    If in doubt, blame the healers /sarcasm off

    Pretty much all has been said before, so make spreadsheets on when to use personal def CDs and when to use raid-wide CDs. DPS below 30k on Mythic Butcher also means you are not really ready for this check.

  13. #13
    Dreadlord Thete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinivus View Post
    Hey man, gunna hijack your thread as well since you're getting some decent responses.
    [*]Many attempts were called a wipe and we were asked to stand in purple
    Why not just reset the boss and save a few repair bills (runes too if you're using them)?
    Retribution Paladin

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

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  14. #14
    In most of the 4 minute attempts I see dps'ers with 80% uptime, meaning that they spend good 30-40 seconds doing nothing but melee attacks. In general your raiders are quite horrible to be honest.

    People lack food buffs, people lack flasks, people don't prepot, people don't second pot when they got uptimes on trinkets, people don't pop cd's or tonics when they get low, the healing throughput is half of ours, your BM monk is doing less dps than your protection warrior.

    I'd say you should go for another boss entirely, as I assume you've not killed 5/7 with these people yet.. If I am wrong, then you've been damn lucky.

    Sorry if this comes as an insult, but there are some very basic mistakes being made that i've not seen happen in a mythic guild above 2/7M so I am honestly a bit baffled.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Thete View Post
    Why not just reset the boss and save a few repair bills (runes too if you're using them)?
    Very interested in guidance on that matter!

    Runes are 150g+ on my realm so any savings on that would be appreciated.

    How can we reset? =)

  16. #16
    Dreadlord Thete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinivus View Post
    Very interested in guidance on that matter!

    Runes are 150g+ on my realm so any savings on that would be appreciated.

    How can we reset? =)
    Run to the doors; they appear to keep you locked into the encounter but he doesn't usually keep engaging up the steps if you leave him alone. Sometimes needs a tank to keep him busy for a few seconds while people do that.
    Retribution Paladin

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

    Thete#2661

  17. #17
    Grunt Ishna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thete View Post
    Why not just reset the boss and save a few repair bills (runes too if you're using them)?
    Would that not result in some people having BL/Hero/TW debuff though which will delay the next pull? My guild isn't doing Butcher yet but I thought the tactic was to BL on pull.

  18. #18
    Dreadlord Thete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishna View Post
    Would that not result in some people having BL/Hero/TW debuff though which will delay the next pull? My guild isn't doing Butcher yet but I thought the tactic was to BL on pull.
    I think the debuff is removed when he resets - certainly we never had a problem with it.
    Retribution Paladin

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

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  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire Winkle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinivus View Post
    Hey man, gunna hijack your thread as well since you're getting some decent responses.

    Logs from today

    Disclaimers:
    • Some sub-ins/trials in the raid
    • Many attempts were called a wipe and we were asked to stand in purple
    • We are 50+ attempts in now and currently have the DPS to down it(looking at 'current dps' at the 40% mark).
    • Wipe dps is Wipe DPS, note we aren't hitting enrage often, half(most?) are above 30 before we start dying off.
    • Just can't seem to go into a strong execute phase with all the melee alive. Lack of strong execute phase I know personally effects how my DPS looks as a Fury.(Retributive)

    I'm open to any constructive responses. We should have it tomorrow but wanting to be as prepared as possible.
    Personally i disagree that you have the DPS to down this fight, you need 500k DPS to do 120m damage in 4 mins, on your best attempt you appear to be around 460k DPS, this is adjusted to discount deaths: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...0&end=13860223

    Both Arcane mages should be pulling more DPS with that ilvl as should the boomkin, even though warriors benefit significantly from the execute phase 27k at 680ilvl again seems low.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Winkle View Post
    Personally i disagree that you have the DPS to down this fight, you need 500k DPS....
    At 40% we've been at a steady 510-520k before as stated.

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