1. #1

    [10H] Valiona/Theralion

    Hello, my guild is thinking of chugging at heroic Valiona/Theralion on 10 and I have a few questions before I formulate a strategy. Should I utilize 2 tanks or just 1? For Blackout, is it best to stack up as a whole just like on regular before healing up or to have smaller clumps to soak? What composition should I send down the twilight zone (ie. 2D, 2D/1H, 1D/1H, etc etc.)? Assuming we don't remove the twilight zone debuff via personal spells, how many stacks should people stay in there or for how many 'rotations'? If it helps, my group composition goes like this:

    Protection Paladin
    Feral Druid DPS/Tank
    Enhancement Shaman (decent self heal)
    Frost Death Knight (decent self heal)
    Marksmanship Hunter
    Fire Mage (can remove debuff)
    Destruction Warlock (decent self heal?)
    Holy Priest
    Restoration Shaman
    Restoration Druid

    Without a Rogue or a Retribution Paladin in our raid composition, does it make it a whole lot harder? Any help is appreciated, thanks!

  2. #2
    A rogue that can spec sub will make it much easier, but it's still doable. I would have the mage and the warlock go down. Have them go down with the resto druid, as the damage isn't spiky at all and the hots will make it easy to heal until stacks get very high.

  3. #3
    Sorry for my ignorance on Subtlety Rogues, but what makes that particular spec so invaluable to this encounter? I know they all have CoS/Feint and stuff to reduce damage and possibly good heals with Recuperate, but if I managed to get us a Subtlety Rogue, what does he need to know to fully take advantage of his spec? Thanks!

  4. #4
    Cloak to clear stacks easily, recup to heal himself. He can go down and never have to come up again, basically taking the adds out of the picture for the fight.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by timoseewho View Post
    Sorry for my ignorance on Subtlety Rogues, but what makes that particular spec so invaluable to this encounter? I know they all have CoS/Feint and stuff to reduce damage and possibly good heals with Recuperate, but if I managed to get us a Subtlety Rogue, what does he need to know to fully take advantage of his spec? Thanks!
    Subtlety in particular gains Enveloping Shadows and Elusiveness which negates a significant amount of Twilight Zone. Combined with cheat death, imp recup and quickening, subtlety is right at home in the twilight realm where any other class will quickly collapse.

  6. #6
    Good stuff! Can I get some answers on my others questions as well >_<, thanks a ton!

  7. #7
    This fight is honestly quite hard without a rogue. The more people you send down there, the rougher it will be upstairs since you will have less people to spread the meteorites/blackout between. If you send a healer, you've lost a third of your upstairs output.

    You pretty much need at least 4 people at range upstairs (3 people at range all times to prevent black void zones on the melee, and 1 will run with meteor). You need at least 1 tank, and then you need some melee to soak the meteorite with. Sending 2 people is probably the maximum amount you want to send, and you really don't want to send a healer if you don't have to.
    Last edited by Pokty; 2011-03-30 at 11:22 PM.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    How hard is 10m heroic V&T compared to other heroic 10 mans if you have a subtlety rogue with you?

  9. #9
    Deleted
    We 4 heal it with 2 tanks and still beat the enrage timer by a full minute, we just rotate 1 healer and 1 dps.

    You can 1 tank it, but it gets a bit tricky as the tank still has agro in the twillight realm, if you do 1 tank i'd advise you to send down a healer with the tank.

    The first two blackouts are pretty carefare, just have 4-5 people stack for them, the later ones are a bit more harsh as you may have people in the shadowrealm, so try to stack as many as possible.
    Last edited by mmocff76f9a79b; 2011-03-30 at 11:54 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    You can 1 tank, but it gets a bit tricky as the tank still has agro in the twillight realm, if you do 1 tank i'd advise sending a healer down with the tank.
    Haven't heard of this setup yet, but nice to know it works :], what's the enrage timer though? And by rotation, do you mean people go in during the 3rd Dazzling Destruction and come out after the 3rd Deep Breath while the next group goes in during the 3rd Deep Breath? Is this like more standard way to rotate? Thanks.

  11. #11
    Deleted
    The enrage timer is 10mins. And by rotation I mean like a healer goes in with mage, then another healer goes in with shadowpriest, then when stacks go away first healer goes in again with mage. You can go in through the flame, dazzling destructions or via the tank, the choice is yours. It depends on amount of mobs up and how the people inside do...
    Last edited by mmocff76f9a79b; 2011-03-31 at 12:07 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Elmokki View Post
    How hard is 10m heroic V&T compared to other heroic 10 mans if you have a subtlety rogue with you?
    I'd put it among the first "tier" of hc progression. We killed it for the first time last reset as our 8th hc boss on the 15th pull. (some of these pulls was due to our ignorance about how blackout really works on hc AND attempting to 1 tank it)
    This reset we oneshotted it with no problems whatsoever.

    In it's current state I'd say with a sub rogue this should be the 3rd or 4th boss you take on hc. After atramedes, halfus, chim.

    It's all about the rogue tho.

  13. #13
    Did it last night without a rogue using a strat that is probably unique to our comp. Warr/DK tanks took care of the adds downstairs with a Fury Warr going in once to help out. Both Warriors glyph victory rush getting some pretty nice self heals, prot took stacks in the 30's before getting out. Timing when to get out is key as the tanks need their stacks to drop off for their 2nd turn inside.

    Took us about 5 pulls after going this way to get them down.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by timoseewho View Post
    What composition should I send down the twilight zone (ie. 2D, 2D/1H, 1D/1H, etc etc.)? Assuming we don't remove the twilight zone debuff via personal spells
    2 tanks, 2 healers, 6 dps... zerg the dragons down without sending anyone to the twilight zone (except the tanks when they fall through, they can nuke down a couple of adds while there).

    As long as your DPS & healers are decent, this tactic is super easy in 10man heroic.
    Last edited by Jon; 2011-04-01 at 04:54 PM. Reason: for clarity

  15. #15
    Just wondering, are people exaggerating when they say a subtlety spec'ed Rogue can stay down there forever? We tried it last night with one and he had to come up shortly in the middle of the first Theralion landing AND the following Valiona landing, is he doing something wrong? Can a rogue who's done it give me some more insight of what needs to be done (or is there a short guide)? Is the Rogue supposed to be able to to keep the twilight phase add-free? At the rate we were going, we were on track kill them at the second Theralion landing, is this too long? It may just be because he was a little undergeared (heroic instance-geared alt) since we ended up having a DPS to go down to help him out at the beginning. Thanks.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by timoseewho View Post
    Just wondering, are people exaggerating when they say a subtlety spec'ed Rogue can stay down there forever?
    No, they aren't.

    The rogue is supposed to keep Feint up 100% of the time. Coupled with Enveloping Shadows, this is a fulltime 80% AOE damage reduction. They should be doing a feint + 5pt Recup on the dragon before heading down initially.

    Once they're down there, they just have to keep Recup up, Feint up, and not touch the balls.

    There are talents that can help them a lot, such as Recup CD refreshed when killing an add, etc. Glyph of Feint can help with resource cost.

    We tried it last night with one and he had to come up shortly in the middle of the first Theralion landing AND the following Valiona landing, is he doing something wrong?
    Yeah. Make sure hes not touching balls, and he's keeping Feint up. It's really simple. He should cloak stacks off around 20-25.

  17. #17
    Thank you for the fast reply! At any point, would he need assistance from other DPS? Or is just having a Rogue down there the whole fight enough and a full-time job for him.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by timoseewho View Post
    Thank you for the fast reply! At any point, would he need assistance from other DPS? Or is just having a Rogue down there the whole fight enough and a full-time job for him.
    I usually only come out of the twilight realm when the boss has 3-4 million health.

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