At first I didnt like the heroic nerfs, but they may be alright

[Marsc92]

Theyre nerfing it because of the new heroics.
The only people that will be doing older heroics are those that are still gearing. Its not hard at all to get 346 ilvl, and of course that means you'll never be doing older heroics again most likely. Its just more so that when u get a group of fresh 85s in terribad ilvl 329 gear, it isn't still a wipe fest or anything.

[isadorr]

It HAS to be done?
For this one time I am on the side of the QQ'ers here, I see absolutely no reason why they should change anything.
The game has been out for 4 months and if things were NEEDED they would be changed before.
Too bad I don't have an US-account, but I would really love to hear a good reasoning for these change.
Why did they do them and why did they think it was needed?
If the dungeons were impossible for some set-ups, than I can agree.. But afaik it was perfectly doable unless you were an idiot.
And yes, the average pug contains idiots, that isn't Blizzards fault however and they shouldn't support being so bad.

Melee has interrupts and so do tanks, I think this is blizzard's way of saying we can nerf but we can't fix stupid.

[Triston]

Throne of Tides

* Gilgoblin Hunters' Poisoned Spear direct and periodic damage has been reduced.
* Gilgoblin Aquamages' Tsunami damage has been reduced.

This is the one change I absolutely agree with. Prior to epic gear, these packs would pretty much gib your tank. The hard part of heroics should be coordination and boss mechanics, not trash that globals a modestly geared tank.

The rest of the changes are meh. I'm not for them, but it's ok. The good players will be doing ZA and ZG, where it takes a brain. Let the bads have their undertuned heroics, and we can have our tough ones.

[Deleted]

This is Blizz doing what they have to do to try and a save a population base.

Does it really matter why they're doing it?

[Tumble]

I dont see why people give a shit at this point in time if they have been nerfed to the ground. You are either one of two types of people:
1) You vastly out gear them and need nothing from them, so why do you give a shit if they are nerfed?
or
2) You still cant complete them as they are now so the nerf will benifit you, you should be happy.

Both of those groups should be happy or not give a shit about the nerfs. There really is no in between with heroics, at this stage in the game, you either fly threw them even faster than you did b4 with your guild mates, which is a plus, or you actually can complete them now with randoms, which is also a plus. Quit bitching about the nerfs, they do nothing but make life easier for people who only run them, its not as if you are getting full T11 from running dungeons.

[Triston]

This is Blizz doing what they have to do to try and a save a population base.

I would rather they didn't. I'll pay 20 bucks a month instead of 15 if we can drop the dumbest 33% of players.

[Viros]

I don't care, just because I was done with heroics after the first week of Cata. Let the bads who are still struggling have their easy (easier) heroics, it doesn't affect me.

[Resentful]

I don't care, just because I was done with heroics after the first week of Cata. Let the bads who are still struggling have their easy (easier) heroics, it doesn't affect me.

And makes alts easier!

[SrWraith]

I would rather they didn't. I'll pay 20 bucks a month instead of 15 if we can drop the dumbest 33% of players.

Just an fyi, you'd have to pay $22.50 a month to drop a third of the player base. Good thing WoW is easier than algebra.

[Deleted]

If the dungeons were impossible for some set-ups, than I can agree.. But afaik it was perfectly doable unless you were an idiot.
And yes, the average pug contains idiots, that isn't Blizzards fault however and they shouldn't support being so bad.

You win. +10 to you sir.
So far, I've had experience as a healer (priest), tank (warrior), and dps (elemental shaman) for these heroics, and although as above posters have mentioned they're not *game breaking* in any way, no serious nerf to any 5man. I still don't agree to any instance to be nerfed so soon.

Okay 4 months since the release of Cataclysm, whether you're in raiding gear or levelling gear, the difficulty of any instance is more or less down to the players you're grouped with. Normally comes down to the argument of "pug" or "pre-made" group.

Imo this expansion is significantly harder than WotLK (which I think's great), i hope these nerfs don't provoke and avalanche of more things to come, similar to what happened closer to the end of WotLK. Clearing Gundrak heroic in under 6 minutes isn't exactly what i'd call "fun". Granted, completing a daily heroic every day for a few badges, and it taking a fair chunk out of your day isn't exactly "fun" either, but who decides where to draw the line?

[Deleted]

Yay for nerfs, now people are less likely to waste my time!

[Keosen]

Blizz makes dungeon hard -> MMOChamp community rage over asking for ners cause 1h HCs are bad
Blizz nerfs them a little -> MMOChamp community rage because they were nice to be hard
Blizz nerf them more -> MMOChamp community rage because "hey me and my 4 guild mates all full on epics we can faceroll it so screw alts and people starting now"

*Blizzard adds MMOChamp community to his ignore list because after all "what's the point of reading 11yo schizos"?
Blizzard wins.

[Deleted]

I have to say, most of the boss changes here actually ARE ones that make it mindless in my eyes.
- Ragezone: no longer fatal to just stay in there.
- Ground Slam: the damage nerf most likely means a even slightly geared tank won't get oneshot by it.
- Forgemaster Throngus, Encumbered: kiting the boss is possibly no longer crucial.
- Bound Flames, Lava Pools: no longer add any extra consideration to the fight
- Gilgoblins in TotT: once again, the mechanic can most likely be ignored now (I agree it was a bit over the top earlier though)

And that's pretty much my problem with them: when that big bad ability of the boss no longer oneshots you, you won't need to learn to avoid it anymore, just like in WotLK - and soon that effect will extend to (normal mode) raids.

[anyaka21]

It HAS to be done?
For this one time I am on the side of the QQ'ers here, I see absolutely no reason why they should change anything.
The game has been out for 4 months and if things were NEEDED they would be changed before.
Too bad I don't have an US-account, but I would really love to hear a good reasoning for these change.
Why did they do them and why did they think it was needed?
If the dungeons were impossible for some set-ups, than I can agree.. But afaik it was perfectly doable unless you were an idiot.
And yes, the average pug contains idiots, that isn't Blizzards fault however and they shouldn't support being so bad.

Actually, if you are a Blizzard developer or executive, it takes time to look at the data, it takes time to look at the way the population of the game is in decline, and then make a move.

At this point of the expansion, my guess is, their data shows that not only have they lost more people than they've gained, but also that people are playing less than they have in the past (and yes, I'm pretty sure Blizzard has the ability to track this). People on less, playing less alts, etc..., or essentially play time on decline, probably means people likely to leave the game in the near future.

Thus in the mind of Blizzard, YES, it HAS to be done. And it absolutely a reason to change anything and everything they see fit to keep people playing.

4 months is most definitely a time to make changes that are and have been needed to make the game better for a very large and disenfranchised portion of the population.

And regardless of the average pug containing idiots, it was Blizzard's fault for making a ridiculous change in difficulty for the average player from one expansion to the next, to make an expansion that went from fast, furious, and fun, to a long, boring, tedious grind. And should they support bad? Absolutely!. "Bads" pay the bills just as much as the "goods" do.

[ForTehNguyen]

Meh, after raid gearing up 2 chars, and heroic gearing two additional chars, easily killing stuff prenerf, i welcome these nerfs

[Jademist]

In all honesty it won't matter to the people who are getting mad about it. The better players will just do the zandalari heroics for 140 vp and the old heroics will be for casuals and alts.

There we go again with the "casuals want things easier" notion. I'm a casual and I'm SLOWLY, yet deliberately going to get 12/12 before 4.2 and I am ilvl353...so I CAN do the Zandalari heroics.

Why are people still stuck on that notion that "casuals" want things easier? I like the challenges the game has to offer.
Casual-ity only refers to how much time someone can spend playing the game and for me that's about 1-2 hours a day for now (Because of college).

Sigh.......................

[Jathro]

It's not exactly catering to "baddies" or "casuals" - not entirely. It's allowing more of the player base to gear up so they can see the revamped ZA and ZG. Period. End of discussion.

[Elrandir]

What I really like is the visibility of what's happening being added more, what I never understood in this game are the many mechanics that you can't see or understand well on the fly so they basically require you to a) have done the fight before b) know tacs well beforehand spoiling any sense of newness when you come into a new place c) have a dbm addon with cd timers d) be psychic. You should be able to see what the boss is doing so you can react to it, even that's too hard for some people who keep standing where they're stood in this lovely purple circle draining their hp bar. I consider myself a better than average player and I'm just delightfully happy about every heroic nerf because it means I can wipe less in heroics due to some freaking hopeless puggies. I know I could beat the first versions, realizing the majority of pugs can't though, makes me not regret any nerfs. If I'm kiting Throngus he still won't ever hit me with his mace, so wether it's 50% or more increased dmg don't matter to me. I'm always moving out of ground slam, if there's a graphic there now, don't matter to me lol. etc.

[Jademist]

It's not exactly catering to "baddies" or "casuals" - not entirely. It's allowing more of the player base to gear up so they can see the revamped ZA and ZG. Period. End of discussion.

Didn't Blizzard already state as well that they are going to make content easier as the game progresses, so that newcomers won't get stuck behind?

I mean if you're already decked out in ilvl359 and doing heroic raiding, why does the state of a heroic dungeon have to matter?

Also, why not try doing those heroics in ilvl329, basic heroic starting gear and see what happens.

[Keoren]

Heroics aren't hard and never were, but i don't like wiping when one kid makes a mistake. For all i care they can decrease all mobs and bosses health by 80% and i'd be happy. Anytime they are able to cut down on the time im in a heroic im happy. Heroics aren't particularly fun, are a horrible judge of skill in most cases, and frankly are boring that it takes an hour to get a whole 70 badges that has to be done 7 days a week. Can't wait till they nerf them and they take 15 minutes and i spend 2 hours every tuesday getting all my badges.

I for one enjoy that there is other PvE content apart from just the raids - actually there should be more than there currently is for those who don't necessarily enjoy raiding. If you nerf heroics too much they lose all their purpose and could be removed altogether, getting people into raiding without any steps inbetween. While I do not mind if a majority of the players are simply too challenged by certain mechanics so that they need changing, it needs to be kept within certain limits or you'll just have another completely pointless, brainless grind in your hands. That would be just bad game designment.