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  1. #21
    If you are gearing up in dungeons or particular fights with high mobility like Atremedes then go for Inner Will, otherwise stick with Inner Fire. The additional spellpower is much more beneficial

  2. #22
    A couple months back I made the swap to Inner Will from Inner Fire, grudgingly for the above listed reasons. But honestly, it's so much better now. It very much suits my play style - I pump out more than enough HPS (Ive ranked on WoL regularly. Keep in mind our 25 had 1 or no mana tides, and I'm Holy and usually assigned to healing melee.

    Inner Will is well worth trying out in PvE, imo.

    I PvP as Holy as well, and Inner Will is my go to Fire buff.

  3. #23
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    idd, i use inner fire for disc (pve) as mana is not an issue in disc and i use inner will for holy (pve) for less mana usage when spamming renews, coh etc... but you can also flick between the 2 if u quick enough as they cost no mana to use i.e, use innerwill for your instants then swap to inner fire to throw a few prayers, heals etc etc
    ........THE WRITING'S ON THE WALL !!!!!

  4. #24
    Fluffy Kitten Lohe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    The extra throughput from Fire "saves" more mana than Inner Will does.
    No, the extra throughput from Inner Fire lowers the HPM of instant casts but increases the HPS.
    So no, it doesn't "save" more mana in any shape or form. Unless the "save" was intended as sarcasm, in which case, good one!

  5. #25
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    No, the extra throughput from Inner Fire lowers the HPM of instant casts but increases the HPS.
    So no, it doesn't "save" more mana in any shape or form. Unless the "save" was intended as sarcasm, in which case, good one!
    You heal someone for 150000 in 15 seconds with Fire using a 10000 heal spell for 2000 mana.
    You heal someone for 144000 in 16 seconds with Will using a 9000 heal spell for 1750 mana.

    Heal one used 5 Healing per mana.
    Heal two used 5,15 Healing per mana.

    That is such a minor gain, and only ONLY on instant casts. So in the end, Inner Fire will get you more HPMana.

    Not to mention you were slower.

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  6. #26
    Fluffy Kitten Lohe's Avatar
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    You're greatly exaggerating the amount of healing gained from the 532 spell power that Inner Fire provides.
    http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t110245-...s_and_Formulas
    The difference in HPM is much greater than what you want to make it out to be.

    532 spell power is roughly 1000 healing across all 5 jumps of PoM.
    PoM costs 18% base mana. Priest base mana is something in ballpark of 20582.
    PoM costs 3704 mana, 3335 mana with 3/3 MA, 2779 with 3/3 MA and IW active.
    The extra 1000 healing comes at the cost of 556.
    In other words, that 1000 healing was done at 1.8 HPM, it's super effective!

    I have to point out again that your numbers are terribly skewed.
    Inner Fire will never realistically make a healing spell 11% more effective
    If the cost with Inner Fire is 2000 the cost with Inner Will will be either 1700 or 1667 depending on whether MA was factored into the 2000 or not.
    Better gear makes Inner Fire worth less in terms of percentage.

    Saying it's not a contest nor a debate just shows how little you actually bothered to look into it.
    It depends both on healing strategy, fight specific mechanics and what kind of mana problems the caster has.
    Last edited by Lohe; 2011-04-04 at 12:38 PM.

  7. #27
    I'm still relatively new typo the healing community, but I have seriously considered putting together a sticky worthy post on this issue. Some posters (like the one above) actually provide useful information, but most just spam say their spell of choice with no evidence or reasoning behind it.

    That being said, it depends greatly on what spells you are regularly casting. It would be nice if we could gather all off the intelligent responses and generate a viable sticky, backed with math and solid reasoning.
    Last edited by Grizzlokk; 2011-04-04 at 12:59 PM.

  8. #28
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    You're greatly exaggerating the amount of healing gained from the 532 spell power that Inner Fire provides.
    http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t110245-...s_and_Formulas
    The difference in HPM is much greater than what you want to make it out to be.

    532 spell power is roughly 1000 healing across all 5 jumps of PoM.
    PoM costs 18% base mana. Priest base mana is something in ballpark of 20582.
    PoM costs 3704 mana, 3335 mana with 3/3 MA, 2779 with 3/3 MA and IW active.
    The extra 1000 healing comes at the cost of 556.
    In other words, that 1000 healing was done at 1.8 HPM, it's super effective!

    I have to point out again that your numbers are terribly skewed.
    Inner Fire will never realistically make a healing spell 11% more effective
    If the cost with Inner Fire is 2000 the cost with Inner Will will be either 1700 or 1667 depending on whether MA was factored into the 2000 or not.
    Better gear makes Inner Fire worth less in terms of percentage.

    Saying it's not a contest nor a debate just shows how little you actually bothered to look into it.
    It depends both on healing strategy, fight specific mechanics and what kind of mana problems the caster has.
    I didn't provide the hard numbers, but i am still convinced that IF does not get beaten by IW at any other point of time than when you have to save mana and don't need the extra throughput for a while. Which is when it's used, and not outside of that.

    If you can use the full throughput bonus of IF it will not be beaten by IW. I pity any priest that uses IW 90% of the time.

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  9. #29
    I raid 25's and I'll say this: You use them both as holy, and as disc you primarily stick to Inner Will unless you greatly outgear the encounter.

    I actually sometimes switch between them multiple times in a fight for different reasons. If it's a time when I know I'll be keeping CoH on CD, using renew a bunch, and keeping PoM out... yes - I'll have Inner Will up because it conserves mana (again, assuming you don't outgear the fight). On most heroic modes you will end up running close to oom by the end, so any way to conserve is good and the less throughput isn't that noticable.

    When your not going to need to keep instant on CD and/or use renew a lot during a certain part of the fight, this is when you switch back to Inner FIre to make PoH more powerful, along with your flash, greater, and heal/binding heal. They are both useful in every encounter and you should look into switching between them given the situation. It can be well worth the gcd to do so.

  10. #30
    It depends on A) Are you running out of mana, and B) Are you using instant casts often?

    I'm yes to both A and B. When I'm not casting PoH, I'm single target healing with Renew and PW:S. PW:S when glyphed and talented is more powerful and more efficient than Flash Heal, which makes it a superior "emergency" heal.

  11. #31
    as a pve holy priest 12/12 no hardmodes yet... when i started raiding and even still now but not so much as mana isn't as much of an issue so i stay in innerfire, but... i ALWAYS swapped to innerwill before ANY instant cast unless i like HAD to get that off right then and there to save someones life... the one benefit of cata is everyone has such large health pools, you can take your time to heal everyone up in the most efficient way.. and innerwill before any instant cast outweighs innerfire unless you have S@#$tons of mana to blow toward an end of the fight... if your newer and find yourself having mana issues somewhat, i highly recommend doing this, you'll find yourself saving A LOT more mana

    edit: but you want to make sure you switch back to innerfire when you start casting again, i find it switch to innerwill, throw up PoM, CoH, and any renews i may need or pws, then back to innerfire and start casting my heal, poh, gheal, etc. then back to will again for instants, just wanted to clarify what i was talking about... switching back and forth as they're mana free to switch, use these tools people

    any good priest will be switching between these regularly, there is NO POINT in staying in one of them throughout a whole fight, you should be switching back and forth throughout the whole fight depending on what your casting...
    Last edited by blitzkrieg3002; 2011-04-04 at 02:37 PM.

  12. #32
    Fluffy Kitten Lohe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    I didn't provide the hard numbers, but i am still convinced that IF does not get beaten by IW at any other point of time than when you have to save mana and don't need the extra throughput for a while. Which is when it's used, and not outside of that.
    And to think that just earlier you said that there was no contest nor a debate and now it suddenly has a use.
    Maybe you should think before you decide to open your mouth

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Must be one of those people.
    I'm sorry, I don't get what you're trying to say. I think my question was pretty relevant.
    As a holy priest you only have 3.5 instant spells (the half being Serenity), compared to seven with a cast time.

    Now, writing this it's dawned on me it might have been a comment towards my indirect statement of me using Inner Fire; if so,
    DAMN YOU SARCASM!

  14. #34
    High Overlord Ariahna's Avatar
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    The right answer, like a few have already mentioned, is to switch between the two. It really depends on what you are casting. Last week we were doing heroic Maloriak for the second time, but this time without our disc priest and the healers were burning through mana because some players were a little rusty with moving quickly from sludge. I decided to stay in Inner Will to help with mana and I saved 103,047 mana over the course of a 10:08 minute fight, that works out to be ~ 847 MP5.

    Here's the math on the mana savings assuming 3/3 Mental Agility for both costs:

    PoM: (38 * 3335 = 126,730) - (38 * 2780= 105,560) = 21,170 mana saved
    Renew: (108 * 3150= 340,200) - (108 * 2625.22= 283,524) = 56,676 mana saved
    CoH: (34 * 3891.51= 132,311) - (34 * 3241.92 = 110,259) = 22,052 mana saved
    PW:S: (3 * 6300= 18,900) - (3 * 5250= 15,751) = 3,149 mana saved

    So, if you are in a high movement phase of a fight, or one that you use instants a lot, then Inner Will is a great way to make sure you have mana to last the whole fight. My top spells were: PoH (25.2%), CoH (17.9%), Renew (17.3%), and PoM (9.4%). Not that it matters any, but I was the top healer with 10,567 hps, and 10,537 eHPS. I still have a long ways to go in perfecting the whole IW/IF dance, it's something I'm working on though.
    Last edited by Ariahna; 2011-04-04 at 05:39 PM.

  15. #35
    Numbers.. lovely, lovely numbers...

    I think it'd be safe(ish) to assume that Inner Will is more beneficial for Disc Priests than it is for Holy. I normally don't need the extra throughput of Inner Fire personally plus I believe more mana savings is better than a (more or less) small increase to throughput. Which essentially increases your throughput anyway over time.

  16. #36
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    I appreciate the numbers, Ariahna, but it's only part of the picture. I realize the throughput difference with IF comes at a higher HPM value, but that needs to be included when comparing mana savings. Further, how many casts of PoH/Heal/GH/FH did you have while in IW? Obviously, none of those benefit at all from IW at all, so the throughput difference on those should also be calculated in. The point that should be drawn from this discussion is that IW definitely is useful in certain fights. Ones that are currently very mana intensive, but lend themselves well to IW usage, can probably allow one to heal them either with somewhat less overall regen.

    Ideally, for Heroic Maloriak, I would say that IW probably does make more sense in the dark phase, since there's both a fair bit of movement and uneven damage which makes PoH less effective, but IF definitely makes more sense for at least the red phase. It probably doesn't matter a whole lot for blue and green. In either case, that fight is an excellent example of how a good priest can make effective use of both spells.

  17. #37
    High Overlord Ariahna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq View Post
    I appreciate the numbers, Ariahna, but it's only part of the picture.
    Oh, I completely agree and know what you are saying. If I was really pro, I would have been in IF for all phases except for dark, but I'm working on that. The main reason I switched to IW was because of mana issues of all our healers. This is generally a long right as you know, where there are periods of very intense burst healing required (red phase). The week prior, 2-3 of our healers were dead at the end, and a few that were alive were OOM before the fight was over. I just wanted to provide an example of how IW can help with the OOMing situation based on spell usage.

    While learning this fight, many healers might be tempted to switch to a regen trinket like JAR. This just shows that we have other options.

    P.S. Here is my total healing breakdown. Our logs are private so it would do no good to provide you a link like I would like.

    Prayer of Healing 1617482 25.2 % 280 5032.1 1408982 37 5635.1 208500 317 5102.5 1617482 - - 44.7 %
    Circle of Healing 1151199 17.9 % 181 5427.3 982333 23 7342.0 168866 204 5643.1 1151199 - - 21.3 %
    Renew 1112314 17.3 % - 68 2578.0 175303 68 2578.0 175303 462 2028.2 937011 08:53 (87.5 %) 47.6 %
    Prayer of Mending 606794 9.4 % 69 7372.1 508677 9 10901.9 98117 78 7779.4 606794 - - 16.1 %
    Echo of Light 596616 9.3 % - - - 3589 166.2 596616 09:39 (95.1 %) 42.5 %
    Glyph of Prayer of Healing 307367 4.8 % - - - 596 515.7 307367 04:01 (39.6 %) 48.2 %
    Lightwell Renew 289286 4.5 % - 1 0.0 0 1 0.0 0 80 3616.1 289286 01:28 (14.5 %) 50.9 %
    Flash Heal 229353 3.6 % 13 13235.8 172066 4 14321.8 57287 17 13491.4 229353 - - 34.7 %
    Divine Hymn 216903 3.4 % 15 10726.9 160904 3 18666.3 55999 18 12050.2 216903 - 00:14 (2.4 %) 10.5 %
    Divine Touch 134653 2.1 % 108 1246.8 134653 - 108 1246.8 134653 - - 23.8 %
    Desperate Prayer 44351 0.7 % 1 44351.0 44351 - 1 44351.0 44351 - - 19.7 %
    Power Word: Shield 37864 0.6 % 5 7572.8 37864 - - - 00:03 (0.6 %) 0.0 %
    Heal 34809 0.5 % 8 2566.0 20528 4 3570.2 14281 12 2900.8 34809 - - 72.7 %
    Healthstone 23678 0.4 % 1 23678.0 23678 - 1 23678.0 23678 - - 0.0 %
    Binding Heal 18652 0.3 % 2 9326.0 18652 - 2 9326.0 18652 - - 0.0 %
    Greater Heal 6414 0.1 % 3
    Last edited by Ariahna; 2011-04-04 at 06:13 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    My CoH ends up to about 15%, my PoM 13% and my renew to maybe 7-9%. But those are not the most manaconsuming spells.
    That would be FH and GH along with PoH.
    PW:S is over 20% of my healing, inner will > inner fire. Not everyone plays Holy.

  19. #39
    When I raid in our 25mans I use Inner Will as Disc in every raid and usually top healing with about 45% PW:S. It works.

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