Cats & Bears PVE ... As good As ?

[Tareum]

Na, this aint a new QQ thread.

Basically I've played feral for years and seen / completed all contents as they were released - bar original vanilla I started in TBC.
Despite repeatedly being mashed with the nerf bat, once we bears and cats found ways to adapt, I've always been competitive and felt my toon was responsive within the scope of what it could do. But now I simply don't - or can't.
So I wonder ..
Why is it my damage output can't rival others .. Or why is my aoe tanking threat generation that poor ...

I've already posted here along those lines and got somehow childish replies to what I see as a serious issue.
I hope this time I can get feed back from other cats or bears who like me, are currently doing raid hard modes.
If I'm the only one feeling this way I'll just go back to the drawing board. If not, it'll make more sense - in a sad kinda way.
Cheers

[Arielle]

Or why is my aoe tanking threat generation that poor

Fixed in 4.1.

[Zimeron]

What exactly are you trying to ask? Why your damage isn't as good as others? That's a vague question which has a lot of possible answers. Narrow it down with a specific fight or give us a parse if you want to get a fact based answer. The same goes for your aoe threat question, to many unknowns to give you a good answer.

Ask clear questions, otherwise this post does just come off as QQ.

[littlepiggy]

Because our rotation was simplified; SR not being as important (although still important) and not being able to weave FB into our rotation for a substantial increase, cat's skill gap is very small in Cata. At the end of Wrath, good cats were topping meters (I do kinda miss those days of always being first..) and bad ones were mediocre (like the good Cats in Cata). It sucks, as you know.

As Katarn said, with Bear AoE threat being fixed in 4.1 and SD getting such a nice change.. Bear's are (and have been) in a good spot. Cat's need some tweaks to make dps'ing fun and not frustrating anymore, but we can be viable based on your guild. (doesn't mean we still don't need fixes)

[Elunedra]

bear dmg generation is about 2K lower on. this get fixed by removing the threat modifiers on a lot of our attacks and making them hit harder instead.

bear dmg aoe gives to low threat in general. this get fixed by letting us use swipe one extra time each 6 seconds. (and it also got the dmg buff but loos its threat modifeir)

as for kitty aoe, if played well we can be top 3 in avarage guild. if you are in a top guild whit top players you can only he around the middle of the dps chart. so be it. no fixes for that

[Tareum]

Elundra said:
if you are in a top guild whit top players you can only he around the middle of the dps chart. so be it. no fixes for that

^ That is what I've experienced

Zimeron said:
That's a vague question which has a lot of possible answers. Narrow it down with a specific fight or give us a parse if you want to get a fact based answer.

No mate, my question is simple and clear. Personally I experience:

- Distinct sub-par single and multiple target direct damage
- Long ramp up littered with misses - yes I know bleeds don't miss but whilst I miss and until bleeds tick, others are proficiently producing high damage.
- "Multiple personality disorder" DPS with damage output hugely lacking consistency from one try to the next whilst doing exactly the same stuff.

Now add those 3 and you have your more "specifics".
Note that these apply to ALL encounters, that I have no problems with positional requirement, "rotations" and such.

[Zimeron]

I wouldn't say these are 'specifics' as it sounds like you have problems with every encounter. Also, an armory link is always helpful to actually see what content you're struggling on, etc.

- Distinct sub-par single and multiple target direct damage

This is where the class is at currently. But never topping the meter isn't the same as always being on the bottom, that's a different problem.

- Long ramp up littered with misses - yes I know bleeds don't miss but whilst I miss and until bleeds tick, others are proficiently producing high damage
- "Multiple personality disorder" DPS with damage output hugely lacking consistency from one try to the next whilst doing exactly the same stuff..

Put on more hit/expertise if you want to lose the misses and have more consistent DPS. Yes, it's not max dps, but it'll lower variance across attempts and the DPS on adds will improve, and it's what you're complaining about. The difference between a hit capped build and one that prioritizes other stats isn't as large as people think, especially once you're in full 372s.

For your AoE threat 'question,' I'm assuming the DPS are pulling off of you, which means you may need to stack some threat stats. I know it's crazy, but if you're wiping because you can't hold threat and not to the fact that the mobs are having their way with you, then that's an easy way to fix it. Having our paladin stack hit/exp for Maloriak made a world of difference on the sludges.