Attendance issues

[The Troll Rogue]

Ok first off I'm not sure if this is the right forum section to post this in because it's technically about raids but it's not about a specific raid so sorry ahead of time if this is the wrong spot.

Ok so here's my guild's situation. We normally raid on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Sundays. Now here's where it gets bad, the past few weeks people have stopped showing up on Sundays which is causing us to not have enough people to raid, forcing us to break down into a 10 man raid and giving the people that actually showed up for raid bonus DKP. Over the past few weeks less and less people have started showing up and now we're having trouble even filling up a Tuesday night raid.

My guild has never been the type of guild that punishes people for not showing up, instead they just reward people that do show up, so subtracting DKP or demoting/kicking people that don't show up is out of the question according to our guild leader. My question is, is there anything that we can do to possibly get people to start showing up again so we can continue our progression?

BTW we're 10/12 on normal and people stopped showing up right after we killed Cho'gall for the first time.

[Uggorthaholy]

There's your answer. Cho'gall down, content seen, see-ya later. Happens when there is no punishment for not showing. Once people have seen the content, they will stay if they want more gear, to do heroics, etc, or they will leave and be happy losing nothing for not showing.

[Deleted]

There's your answer. Cho'gall down, content seen, see-ya later. Happens when there is no punishment for not showing. Once people have seen the content, they will stay if they want more gear, to do heroics, etc, or they will leave and be happy losing nothing for not showing.

I don't think people are really that selfish in most cases. If it's a general problem, then there's more to it than pure selfishness.

If you've been following the forums recently, both MMO-C and the official ones, you'll have come across quite a few "is WoW dying" posts or "attendance issue" threads. It seems like a lack of motivation is a common problem in this phase of the game and there aren't any quick fixes to it.

If you want to expand on this topic, visit tankspot.com and look up the Daily Marmot/PST in which he covers common raid isses.

To be honest, there's only so much you can do about it. You can't force people to raid and it's difficult to motivate them if they're already unmotivated.

Here's what I'd do:

1. Get everyone together on a non-raid night and talk about the issue. Try to find out exactly why people are leaving and what the cause is. Don't blame anyone who speaks his mind and try to be honest about it. Listen to peoples feedback, especially from those raiders who don't generally talk much.

2. Assuming there's no easy fix in sight, propose to down-grade from 3 to 2 raid-nights, and try and convice people to attend. Of course, ultimately it is out of you power, but if people want to raid less, then raid less.

3. If that doesn't help, break up your raid-group into 10 mans. One "committed" group for 3+ raid nights and one "casual" for 2 raid nights a week. Just try to get by without too many ambitions. Once 4.2 is on the horizon, step-up recruitment and try to get back to 25 man raiding.

[Willelm]

To expand a bit on what crowe said, why don't you use your guild forums to discuss the topic? Ask why people are inactive (is it because things are coming up, is it because they've seen the content, etc).

Our guild recently had a fairly big dip in attendance, and we just promoted ourselves to get new players in. It's worked so far and now that we're past the new-player adjustment phase, we're doing rather well! Maybe your guild should consider recruiting. There are plenty of ways to go about it.

Some people are losing interest in the game. It happens at times. But I don't think it'd be right to punish players for not signing up for raids. Now this is a different story for people signing up and not showing up (in which case, yes, minus dkp). But things happen in real life, and sometimes you just want to have a wow-break. Also, right now, it's study time for students because their tests are coming up. This was a big reason why we've lost a lot of players recently, and we know it's because of that because we have inactivity thread on our forums where people can post that stuff.

Overall you are just hitting a bad patch and you'll make it through okay. If necessary, do as Crowe suggested and downgrade to 10 man raiding for awhile until you get your numbers back up.

[PBitt]

All I can say is I've been in that position as a 25 man raid leader for a long time and I feel your pain. You really have to know people, after a few months raiding with most of the same people I could tell you a handful of people who wanted nothing more than epics. All of their posts on the forums were about loot, not about strategy and progression. Some tell you two months in advance they can't make it for one raid day, while others no-show no-tell and don't tell you why the next day. Hell, once we had a boomkin play an alt in other guild she thought nobody knew about while we were doing hardmoce Ulduar and needless to say she had to find another guild about 10 seconds after we found out.

Case in point, there really is no easy way to fix it, but I see no reason not to hound on people who are slacking to find out why they aren't coming. People are people. The only thing you can really do is keep recruiting, and at the very least you can still raid in 10s instead of being screwed over entirely.

[Roose]

We did not raid tonight for the first time on a Tuesday. It sucks. Unfortunately this is what happens when stale content meets spring time.

I myself did not want to raid tonight but I came home because I know that it all starts with that first night of no raiding. After that first night, it is all downhill from there. If it was hard to get them to show up before, it will be near impossible now.

My guild should have been pushing hards months ago, but we could never get the right group of ppl to show up. In a 10m guild it is a huge loss to take 2 or 3 ppl that really should not be raiding just because you need bodies. That has been cataclysm so far. We finally got Nef down Sunday after killing Cho and Al weeks ago. Not because we do not have the ppl to do it, but because we could never get the ppl we needed on at the same times. Good luck downing any boss that requires everyone to know the fight when you are bringing at least one new guy every week.

Unfortunately Blizz is following the same course as the last time my guild broke up. The new raid will be just late enough so that everyone has given up on raiding by then in favor of warm weather and sunlight. One or 2 weeks w/o raiding and it will be freezing out before WoW is thought of again.

Group BGs have been our saving grace to keep ppl logging on between raid nights. Unfortunately, there are only so many 20 minute BG waits that ppl are willing to put up with before they decide to play another game that does not waste their time waiting. I hate to see this stuff happen because I really enjoy playing the game with my friends that are thousands of miles away. Maybe it is time to try out that xbox thingy my guildies are talking about.

Good luck OP. You are not alone and many will be joining us in the same boat shortly

P.S. Mergers are a possibility, but you need to be 100% sure that personalties do not clash much or you will be even worse off.

[Kulthor]

Recruit and tell the motherfuckers that don't show up will be replaced and gkicked.
There goes all their guild rep ect.

[The Troll Rogue]

To expand a bit on what crowe said, why don't you use your guild forums to discuss the topic? Ask why people are inactive (is it because things are coming up, is it because they've seen the content, etc).

Now the thing is, this would help out IF more than 5 people checked the forums. It's rediculous.

[Deleted]

Now the thing is, this would help out IF more than 5 people checked the forums. It's rediculous.

It's the same in every Guild..lol. I've never been in a Guild where the GM didn't have to remind at least 50% of the raid to check up on the forums at least once a week.

Hiding your Raid-Planner or your DKP somewhere on the Forums is a nifty trick to get people to check-in every once in a while.

Even more effective is to get one of your female raiders to post some pics of herself on the forums. That'll get all your boys to the yard, guaranteed. Might only work once though.

[Hybred]

Cataclysm is the hardest running a guild has ever been due to how easy it is to take extended breaks and come back and get regeared coupled with guild rep/leveling. Raiding is the best it's ever been but the game itself is very stale and hard to keep people interested.

[Deleted]

Just say goodbye to the guild and join more like-minded people. There are just that many people for whom Cata raids sux and you can't really help them. Or yourself with them.

...Or try rated bgs instead of raids.

[Scratches]

Even more effective is to get one of your female raiders to post some pics of herself on the forums. That'll get all your boys to the yard, guaranteed. Might only work once though.

Weekly pics. Problem solved.

"Oh hai guys, cutie guild member has some sexy pics up on the forum, and she says she'll be posting a new pic every week! She says the more bosses we kill the more she'll....... <whispers> ..wait, she didn't agree to that? Okay, nevermind that last bit!"

[fierceangel]

The problem is for most players there is no desire to put any effort into raiding hard content, since you will be able to get the same rewards in like a years time when it is zergable. It's sad that the game has come to this, but I see this attitude in a lot of players that have "given up" on heroic modes.

[Deleted]

Seems a pretty typical issue, once the guildies have seen all content they don't feel they have to raid anymore. I'm also guessing those people don't want to do heroics, although setting up heroic runs may bring some back. Personally i'd say you'd need to change the system of not punishing people, if someone doesn't show up just remove them from the roster. In my experience the second a person has something taken away (even if they don't use it) they get very defensive about it.

Another issue is the age group of the guildies, if alot of them are anywhere between 15-22ish they most likely have exams or are heading home for the easter holidays right around this time. That may account for a few guildies but not all. I'd say set up a huge recruitment drive and try to fill the spots and send messages out through ingame or the guild forum if you have one telling people that if they do not start signing up and showing up they will lose their place on the roster and possibly even in the guild if they maintain a bad attitude.

[Brett Skullcrack]

Raiding is the best it's ever been but the game itself is very stale and hard to keep people interested.

ROFLMAO. Raiding is a complete bore, the instances are standardized crap with the same textures and models from start to end. Add to that the fact that you have to grind everything twice on easy/hard mode and you'll see why people are not motivated to show up.

Unfortunately there is very little the guild leadership can do to fix these issues, it really is up to Blizzard to start producing content that actually captures people's imagination again and makes them want to raid.

They need to understand that the end-game raiders are not satisfied just by having hard content, when that hard content is doing the same stuff again that you already cleared in the same instance you already saw. What is needed is a TBC style linear progression path that challenges raiders and doesn't let you skip directly to the new tier when its released before actually completing the previous one first. In addition to that there should be casual friendly 10 man raids for non-progression raiders.