Bear Tanking?

[Firecrest]

Bear is my alt. So take the following as you will. Everyone here seems to be pretty rosy, so I figured I’d point out some of the less than stellar aspects of Bear.

One of the worst parts of Bear is your relationship to Dodge. Reforging all your gear to a stat that doesn't come naturally is counter-intuitive. Nowhere in game is this relationship apparent. You have to do outside research to figure it out. This bugs me. It's as though Strength made Holy Priest's heals larger and worked out to be their best stat. Hell, let’s face it. NOTHING on Bear gear screams “tank”. It’s not like Agi paints the picture of strong damage absorbtion and the whole "Hit/Expertise are worthless 15 seconds into the fight" is not something a lot of Tanks are comfortable with or even understand.

AoE threat with trigger happy DPS (which, let's face it, most of them are) can be rough. Many DPS do not understand how Bear AoE threat works. They just assume everyone’s a Pally that gradually builds up AoE threat as opposed to the burst and flatline truth. You’ll Swipe and then Thrash and DPS will go hog wild in the 3-4 seconds before your AoE is off CD again – forcing you to taunt/single target the mobs they’re peeling off you which leaves you less GCDs for further Swipes and Thrashes leading to more peeled mobs. With Swipe changing to a 3 second CD, things should get easier.

Assuming you want to raid 10s or 25s, you will need to amass a LOT of gear. You will need to intimately understand your different options and swap multiple pieces of gear before every boss. Trinkets are especially important and can make swift and large changes to your set up rather quickly. However, you will still need to have sets with different gemming, enchanting and reforging priorities. You can sometimes get away with a “base” set for farm content, but expect to change much of your gear and even your spec to suit each progression boss. Learn to love the wardrobe. And even then, don’t beat yourself up too hard when you go to pop your TB trinket only to find you’re rocking double Stam.

As with any Tank, there’s a lot of pressure. You can be solely responsibility for the failure of any given encounter. If you’re not good at what you do, even the best DPS and Healers in the world aren’t going to be able to save you. On the converse side though, if you are pro enough, you can carry even mediocre groups to victory.

All that said, Bear is pretty fun. Personally, I love it. Druid is just an amazing class and tanking is a great challenge. It’s nerdy to say but there’s much more thrill in charging in and going toe to toe with a boss than there is in standing in the back waving your hands around or even sliding behind the boss and whacking him with a weapon.

[Kioga]

I don't mean to be harsh but I dont see the value of your post as you did not address anything new and some of your accounts I find misleading to those still researching the class.

Where do you come up: "you will need to amass a LOT of gear & you will still need to have sets with different gemming, enchanting and reforging priorities?"

There is no other reforging options until maybe 4.1 and even then Dodge will most likely be the top stat to reforge into for this tier of content. Gemming is a balance of agi/stam and those are influenced by your individual style and how long your healers can keep you alive. Generally, the ONLY gear you will need to swap out will be your trinkets and if you have to do that before every boss fight it just means you are doing your job and kudos to you.

AoE = Berserk/mangle spam or the old fashioned way of tab targeting. However, as a tank its your jop to mark the kill target (skull). If DPS are pulling other adds off, let the dps die for being stupid so long as you keep the adds off your healer.

[Firecrest]

Great...you created a post addressing info that 90% of the Bear community is aware of.

Hey, good thing I'm not talking to that 90%. I'm talking to the other 10%. Or more specifically, the one guy who is the OP and SPECIFICALLY ASKED ABOUT THE CHALLENGES OF BEAR TANKING.

Edit: Nice ninja edit. No matter. Answer remains the same though.

That said where do you come up: "you will still need to have sets with different gemming, enchanting and reforging priorities?"
There is no reforging options until maybe 4.1 and even then Dodge will most likely be the top stat to reforge into for this tier of content. Gemming is either agi or stam and those are influenced by your individual style and how long your healers can keep you alive. Generally, the ONLY gear you will need to swap out will be your trinkets and if you have to do that before every boss fight it just means you are doing your job and kudos to you.

Good Tanks (of any class) change a ton of shit before going into any progression boss. Everything I mentioned and more (I missed glyphs) is up for reconsideration. I agree that there aren't many alternate reforging options at the moment (or enchanting ones for that matter). But that's not to say it always will be and should not be reassessed before you go into a new encounter. Every good player in the game does this. However, it is especially necessary for Tanks.

If this is not known to you, then I guess that explains what kind of player you are.

AoE = Berserk/mangle spam or the old fashioned way of tab targeting. However, as a tank its your jop to mark the kill target (skull). If DPS are pulling other adds off, let the dps die for being stupid so long as you keep the adds off your healer.

Berserk’s not always off CD and (OMG surprise) DPS doesn’t always follow marked targets - this is probably why I specifically refered to "trigger happy DPS". Letting people die I suppose is a personal preference and not really the matter of discussion here. I made my comments under the assumption that the person they were intended for was not a complete asshole.

[Deleted]

Your concerns about bears are legitimate. We are, at the moment, in a bizarre spot. There are a couple of things that we have that were amazing during the Cataclysm raid progression (normal modes). Other things, not so great.

For example, we are the only tank not wearing plate. When in a 10-man environment, if you happen to have no rogue in your raid, that allows both your tanks (bear + plate wearer) to gear up very quickly. It's a great reason to roll a bear.

Yes, AoE threat without Berserk can be a problem. 4.1 is addressing that though.

As for our relationship to dodge, I don't think it is the clunkiest mechanic we've got. Savage Defense and RNG is, in my humble opinion. But I definitely see where you're coming from.

[Kioga]

@Firecrest: I did edit it as I thought it was a lil too hateful and that was not my intent.

However I stand by my earlier statement that you make things out to be more dire than they are. Agi (bear) gear is very easy to aquire via vendors, points, and drops so it will not be hard for OP to be ready to OT raids and possibly MT. I give it a week if he/she sets his mind to it. Also if OP is just now learning to tank, 1 set of gear will work him as I do not see him being asked to tank a progression fight right off the bat.

"Good Tanks (of any class) change a ton of shit before going into any progression boss." But as you pointed out, the OP is talking about Bears and they simply dont change that many items before each progression pull. Trinkets yes, Meta maybe if your raid thinks it is warranted. Other than that our gemming, enchants, and reforging stay pretty much the same as you yourself pointed out. The OP may want to make a "hit" set of gear in case he is put on interrupt duty but the general consensus is that a non reforged FD + hit food is more than suffienct and in 4.1 it will become a moot point.

Pandering to a dps that cant follow directions and slows down your pug/raid is more hurtful to the other people playing the game then to slimpy let him rack up a repair bill while you protect the rest of your group.

OP: Some of your tank pieces can double as kitty dps pieces should your group ask you to go kitty. Not all of them will obviously but for non progression fights of this tier you can get away with it.

Also get as many trinkets as you can carry (eg stam trinks, armor trink, agi trinks, and spell dmg reduction trinks) They are an easy switch up to whichever boss you are about to engage.

[Firecrest]

However I stand by my earlier statement that you make things out to be more dire than they are.

There's nothing dire about Bear tanking (they took that out in Cata).

Puns aside, I never said Bear tanking was bad. All I was saying was that many people in this thread were only pointing out all the good stuff about Bear tanking. The OP specifically asked "What are the flaws to bear tankng?". I do not feel that addressing that question is somehow wrong for this thread. You act like I've come into a "10 Things I Like About Bears" thread with 10 reasons why they suck. I've done no such thing.

To be told only about the good side of something is to get only half the story, and the least important half at that.

I do feel like you're not bothering to read the entirety of my posts and are just reading bits and pieces and taking from that what you want to read. I started my very first post in this thread by explaining that I wanted to address the downsides as asked by the OP since I felt few people had. I also ended that post with an entire paragraph about how much fun tanking on my Bear alt is. On top of that, I've had to point out things that I've already said multiple times now in each of my responses to you. As such, I think I'm done re-explaining things I've already said to you. I'm tired of re-typing it and I'm sure anyone following this thread is tired of re-reading it. Feel free to go back and actually read what I've written though. It looks like it's bound to be a new experience.

[Blackfoo]

Working hm raid atm and im just finding the healers arnt having mana probs but raither my healthpool belong lower so ive chosen to go more stam over agl dodge and mastery working on asc council now and stam by far owns dodge on that fight he hardly hits me furing ph3 anyway