pretty unfair

[Piptooth]

Just to illustrate an example with parallels, I raided with a tank in TBC who was homeless. He lived in his car, and would try to raid from various friends' houses and internet cafes. This often meant sometimes he wouldn't show up -- because he couldn't find a place to stay or they didn't have internet -- or sometimes he would show up and have a lot of issues with his computer or connection.

I feel for anyone in that situation because that is a tough place to be in your life, but that doesn't mean his troubles should affect the other 24 people in the raid. You can bet people resented the hell out of the fact that we constantly had to schedule our raids around him and our progress was often limited by his availability, that we wiped because of his DCs or had to sit around for 20 minutes waiting for him to get back on. Of course, no one wanted to actually replace him because that looked like we were not sympathetic to his troubles.

The proper thing would have been for him to voluntarily resign until he was in a more stable situation. If your connection is bad, if your computer is old, if you are having troubles... you probably put your friends in that awkward position that forced them to remove you from the raid. Your friends probably didn't want to boot you, but they also obviously want to be able to raid. It doesn't justify them being jerks about it if they were, but you probably also should have voluntarily left before they had to take those actions.

If your homeless and attempting to raid from wifi spots and live in your car, your doing life wrong.

To the OP I would've replaced you. Real life friend or ingame friend doesn't matter. I replace people after having to wait 5 minutes. I play to play not wait or watch people fail horribly over and over or not even taking the time to min/max which takes all of 5 minutes to do.

[Nexxia]

Yea, i dont think the OP is mad about being sat, hes mad at being removed with no explanation or warning by people he trusted and thought he was friends with. Sorry to break this to you man, people suck. Get used to it, move along, dont invest your emotions with random faceless internet people or people in general to the point where they have this sort of power over your emotions. I have been playing wow long enough and in enough guilds to know that people will be friendly to a guy as long as hes in vent, but as soon as he logs off or walks off its OPEN FIRE!! Having heard this done enough to others, do the math. Friends is some fantasy shit like wow or the easter bunny.

[Suikoden]

While it sounds to me like your guild really dropped the ball on handling the issue, I really must say that if you find yourself in a much more casual position at the time it's usually a good time to find another guild. Most of the time a raid leader replaces you over lag/subpar dps it's rarely anything personal.

[Tziva]

Also, FWIW, as a raid leader, I will replace ANYONE who goes MIA for 50 minutes. I don't care if you're my own blood; it's not personal. It is pretty reasonable to assume that if someone disappears like that, they had some kind of emergency and are not coming back.

If your homeless and attempting to raid from wifi spots and live in your car, your doing life wrong.

I'm not sure what that has to do with my anecdote. How he is handling his life is not relevant (or my business). The point is, even if your circumstances are not your fault in the sense that you are causing them on purpose or through negligence, it's still not fair to subject your raidmates to them. The proper thing to do is step down until the issues are corrected.

[Nexxia]

If your homeless and attempting to raid from wifi spots and live in your car, your doing life wrong.

To the OP I would've replaced you. Real life friend or ingame friend doesn't matter. I replace people after having to wait 5 minutes. I play to play not wait or watch people fail horribly over and over or not even taking the time to min/max which takes all of 5 minutes to do.

Breaking news, we will all be replaced.

[Kivimetsan]

I'm sorry, but it seems pretty fair actually (other than the nasty comments). You admit you have taken a very casual attitude lately, you admit to being late, you admit to being gone for 50 mins (why would you go drive somewhere on a 10 minute break?). You admit to not being optimized in gear...it seems to me like you wanted to be a lazy raider but still be a member of a progression team...sorry for the harsh words, but that's just my take.

Casual: I have everything I need, all I rely on is weapon drops from Magmaw/Chogal/Nef and BiS shoulders to drop from H Halfus, would I log on if I dont like the current state of the game other than raiding.

Being late: im never late... l2read
10 min break: I live on the other side of a river, with a bridge in between, I had to go all the way around the river between crazy traffic and usually I get back right on time.

Optomized: as much as I can be and I dont have maelstrom enchant because they are supplied by guild
progression team: they are in no way prog, they are casuals who thinks they can compete for number one

lazy: no... I spent most of my gold when I joined to get sufficient amount of pots and flasks to last several months.

so your ramblings mean nothing.

[Siton]

You're slacking off and they wanta raider that doesn't go afk for a numerous reasons. Happens in alot of guilds.

[Cursingmonk]

Agree with Laurician here. In my guild you would have been given a warning or 2 in the "3 weeks" that you were given but optomizing your gear is something you should do on your own (we give free enchants, flasks, etc but still expect people to reforge, gem themselves). When maelstroms were really expensive all of our raiders bought their own. If they did not have a maelstrom enchant on a 359+ item they were not brought to raid. It is very easy to make money so optimize, besides at this point an enchant will cost you at most 5k gold.

Leaving for 50 min, well that is uncalled for I have a texting network setup in our core group so that everyone can text me if they are running late, that helps a lot knowing if I need to replace them or not.

Underperforming your gear is often a problem, the iLevel of that warrior is irrelevant (especially if he can out dps you). for a raid leader if he is playing better, more committed, and optimizes then with 12/12 farmed he will gear in 2 weeks easily.

All in all you cannot expect to keep up with a progression guild if you are not willing to put in the effort required. Maybe check out a more casual guild and find a fit better suited for your lifestyle? The game is a lot more fun if you are raiding with like minded people.

[Nexxia]

Seriously man, people are assholes, just join some other guild. If you're looking for friends you're in the wrong dimension. Please note, mostly none of the replies took into account your original grievance, they just proceeded to rip you apart without asking 1 question.

OP, hes saying its like he came to work and the boss wasnt there and his desk was gone, an assistant says "oh, you're fired". He goes on to ask some questions and is met with "sorry bro, youre holding up our bleeding edge progression on 5 month old bosses.". Not having been warned of slack performance or any issue.

[Hairyzac]

It's understandable they want a replacement for you. You are more casual and have internet problems. But they should have said, "Hey we may have to replace you here shortly if you can't make such and such improvements to your computer/internet setup and/or personal gameplay issues in game.

[Gritalian]

Any way you could link your armory? Would like to see (enchants aside) how your geared.

Also, it sounds like you're still in the guild? You said you've ran with the Warrior and that he isn't very good. If the guild is serious about progression, it isn't going to take long to see whether he fits what they are looking for or not (and he sounds like a downgrade... ilvl 334... really?) I'd have to say, if you are able to take responsibility for your mistakes, let them know that you understand your errors, it sounds like replacing the Warrior with you would be an upgrade, provided you can show up on time, ready to go, and not leave your house during a quick break.


Also, Prices of Materials on the AH go down over time, not up. Buying 2 months worth of Flasks/Pots/Food in advance is a really really bad decision as you're paying for a premium for supplies you don't need right then and there.

[Chireru93]

while you have admitted to being more casual lately, this is pretty unfair imho. if you can make raid times, and you don't hamper the group like they said you did, pull good dps numbers, offer to switch to tank when it's needed, don't die to stupid crap, and are just all around a good player with a bad internet connection and amount of playtime, then they should've at least had the decency to have told you 3 weeks before like the claimed to have, that you needed to shape up or risk being kicked. no matter what, the only time you should ever be justifiably kicked out of nowhere is if you're purposefully hampering the group by doing stupid stuff like pulling before everyone's ready numerous times.

[Ossian]

One of the most important actions to take when dealing with humans is to put yourself in their shoes, honestly. You'd drop whoever was in your shoes too. Other things to think about would be raid composition and personality. Maybe they think someone else would be better for the raid.

[Gritalian]

One of the most important actions to take when dealing with humans is to put yourself in their shoes, honestly. You'd drop whoever was in your shoes too. Other things to think about would be raid composition and personality. Maybe they think someone else would be better for the raid.

I agree with this...

But this guild replaced him with a player who's in the 330's for gear level.

So claiming they are replacing him for the sake of progression, and then bringing in a warrior who sounds like he doesn't even have 1 piece of Reputation Epic gear, let alone having done every Heroic Dungeon, sounds like a step back in progression.

I'd really like to see the OP's Armory... things in this story just don't add up.

[Wilderness]

You admit you've "gone extremely casual" lately because of school. This means that you didn't used to be that way and that previous amount of time and effort was what they expected of you. You pulled threat and are somehow blaming that on your tanks? YOU manage your threat, its not their job. You have computer and disconnection problems. You left for 50 minutes unannounced. I've read the rest of this thread and saw you claim it was from a car accident. But the fact remains that you still chose to go out and try and get food within that small window of time. You put yourself in a position where a car accident, or maybe a problem at the restaurant, or anything else that could come up, could make you late. That shows you weren't considering the time and needs of the other 9 people in the raid and were not prepared ahead of time.

And of course the funniest part of this was all the whining, complaining, and moaning in your OP about being booted clearly shows that you want to be part of this guild and then you call them a group of casuals who think they can compete for number one. If they are a group of "casuals" that aren't very good ... and you aren't good enough to even raid with them ... what does that make you?

Your OP doesn't seem all that objective and I highly doubt we are hearing the full story. If they didn't give you any warning about it, then yeah, that sucks and wasn't the best way to handle the situation. But from what you have told us, and your reactions in this thread, I have no trouble seeing why they wanted to get rid of you. A little maturity would go a long way here.

[Suikoden]

I agree with this...

But this guild replaced him with a player who's in the 330's for gear level.

So claiming they are replacing him for the sake of progression, and then bringing in a warrior who sounds like he doesn't even have 1 piece of Reputation Epic gear, let alone having done every Heroic Dungeon, sounds like a step back in progression.

I'd really like to see the OP's Armory... things in this story just don't add up.

Good insight. Sooooo OP mind linking your armory page?

[Deleted]

@OP: I'd have dropped you in a heartbeat. Having had this happen to me recently, I appreciate how upsetting it is to have that happen. Still, I pulled my ass out, started reforging properly, and got myself back in the game.

Was it easy? GOD NO. Was it expensive? HELL YES. Remember that we all drop the idiot ball sometimes, and see this as an opportunity to better yourself.

[Gritalian]

I think he said he was tanking a Drake and Whelps when he pulled Heroic Halfus, unless he miss taunted, the MT losing threat to a DPS MS, whos off-spec tanking adds would be the Main Tank's fault for losing threat, not his.

Though I guess it's not unreasonable to think the same raid group who replace a raider with someone in lvl 333 blues for HM progression would also blame the add tank for something like that.

[Tziva]

But this guild replaced him with a player who's in the 330's for gear level.

So claiming they are replacing him for the sake of progression, and then bringing in a warrior who sounds like he doesn't even have 1 piece of Reputation Epic gear, let alone having done every Heroic Dungeon, sounds like a step back in progression.

Well, then they'll find that out on their own.

I don't think the OP is worrying about saving them from a bad decision so much as venting about how he was treated.

[Harvesting]

This boils down to one statement "there is no I in Team". I have read the the entire thread and it sounds like you have identified what is wrong with your performance, but you have not solved any of these problems. Yet you blame others for their actions instead of what you can control. The guild focus is raiding few basic questions. How are you assisting that goal? How are you limiting this goal.

In closing, your life changed (completely understandable) and your guild participation dropped (to be expected RL first) except for spotting raid performance, poor connection and few attendance issues. Individually these can be overlooked in a casual guild, the sum of all of them would lead any resonable group to identify the weak link.

Fix your connection (sounds like you did but too little too late)
Fix your toon to min/max (anyone that says they are a raider this is raiding 101)
Take a look at your commitment to WoW and ask why I want to raid but not put in the effort? As humans we all have prioities in life and we WILL make room for things that are important to us as individuals. Raiding obviously was not as important to you as the group you were with, making you the weak link.