Call to Arms: A Recap

[Deffry]

DPS: "I pay for this game same amount of money as tanks and healers. SO I WANT SAME WAITING QUEUES TO DUNGEONS."
Blizz: "Ok, we will motivate tanks and healers to do more HCs in future. Ie with extra loot."
DPS: "Motivate? Extra loot? //I pay for ...// . So I want same loot as them."
Blizz: "So what we can do, what do you want from us?"
DPS: "Hire thousands of players to do tank/healers job for Blizzard as an employees of blizz AntiDPSQQ department!!!!!"
... only right option for Blizz as I can see :P

[Deleted]

if you as dps have a problem about this and think you are getting shafted there is simple answer Roll a tank!

[Knuffelbert]

I would challenge the following point:
# The reason why tanks/healers are not as represented in the queues is because performing said task is far more stressful than DPSing. [14]

People are different and while this reason applies to many I also know many which have the following problem:
- Raiding as DPS and having a PvP specc as off specc: (Me unholy DD and unholy PvP for example, that's why I don't tank, although I would like it more than DD), it's not so much the money for respeccing, but also the need to configure bars + glyphs, which would be solved by either allowing third specc or one specc per possible role (ranged dd/melee dd/tank/heal) + pvp specc (yes, pures would only get 2, yes druids would get 5). But I understand why blizzard isn't allowing specc per role or trispecc.

- Raiding requires fewer tanks than heroics (~1/10th of raid is tanks, 1/5 in heroics). Don't really see raids which require 5 tanks all the time working well. Possible perhaps: 6 man groups instead of 5 (1 tank/1 heal/ 4 DPS). (In the process possibly making 25 man raids 24 mans and 10 man raids into 12 mans (multiples of 6), but just an idea).

(Very happy with the change on a personal note, once I can complete all heroics of the week in one day I will go tank for a day )

[DeanyKong]

Your previous point was that "they only have a very low chance of getting something that anyone in the game can already get," followed up here by justifying the incentive?

The point of this sentence escapes me. Please explain.

Bad tanks not being kicked is an issue with RDF, which includes CtA.

The CtA is not affecting the vote kick system in any way, shape or form. The vote-kick issues with the RDF would be there regardless, so this is a "moot point."

Everybody knows that [DPS getting the CtA] sure as hell is never going to happen in a cap level Heroic.

The point is that DPS CAN get it. If they implement the CtA for lower level players, they will get it fairly often. If the CtA is as bad as you are making it out to be, then DPS will all boycott the dungeon finder and soon they'll get the CtA.

1) The system assumes that class-capable players that didn't want to tank/heal before (or were shitty at it) will suddenly change their minds and be good at it. I doubt it.

They system does not assume that, you do. See reference number 17.

2) Good tanks/healers ... run with their guildies as usual

There are lots of solo players out in the world. They actually make up a good chunk of the people using the dungeon finder. No, this will not suddenly make all the main tanks on Mal'ganis start queueing up for solo randoms, but it will bring a lot of solo players out of the woodwork.

3) 40% of the classes in the game ... queue times will probably be only marginally improved.[/b]

That's exactly what they're going for. I think giving a few players an extra 20g and flask is not that big an investment for returning hundreds of hours of queue time to 40% of the population. Take 40% of an ~10k population server. That's 4k people. 4k people who have to sit in 40 minute queues. These queues get bumped down to, say, 25 minutes. That's 15 minutes back for each person. 15 * 4,000 = 60000 ... 60,000 / 60 = 1,000. Boom, 1,000 hours of play time given back to the players. It all adds up.

[Knuffelbert]

Just read new blue post, bag rewards will be BoA. Maybe good enough to get ubergeared tanks to join to farm for their toons.

[MasterOfNone]

op-
i think you are looking at this through rose tinted glasses. its a good idea in theory but i believe (i think others are saying the same thing in different words) that it will backfire. most heroics for people with ilvl350 or higher are a joke. those arent the people that really need the heroics tho. the people in q are people who dont have the gear to sustain faceroll strategy of said dungeon. therefore you get undegeared tanks/healers and in-experienced tanks/healers that want the rewards and cost dps more time. 160k hp tank with no avoidance because hes a stam stacking mouth breather that gets owned by bosses and heals cant keep him up because his combat regen is like 1500. put those two together, and you are rewarding people who shouldnt be in there wasting other people's time. its a recipie for disaster. like one other poster said, you kick the bad tank or healer and then what. the next one is the same...you now cant kick for however long and take 2 hours for a simple heroic that would have taken 30 mins if people would play/gear thier class correctly.

just my .02

[Deffry]

Quoted for truth.

The problem is, that as tank/healer you do the same amount of HCs for gear/rep as DPS, only in shorter time cuz of queues. In the end all players run (dps/tank/heal) similiar number of dungeons before gearing up and grinding enough rep. If Blizz will compensate this for DPS the problem will not disapear. Long queues will stay and DPS will be in the same situation. The main point of this solution, is to bring more tanks and healers to HCs, so compensate something to dps is meaningless in this case. Only option Blizz realy has, is to motivate healers and tanks, nothing less nothing more. If someone says, that DPS should get more of sumthin' because they suffer of long queues, than he is saying "Give us more. because we are playing less." That's bullshit imo.

[Deleted]

1) So, you can play with others. I bet most of these tanks wouldn't even do a dungeon at all without this. So that's a gain.
2) No, it won't.. Maybe a bit, but that is all. If a small amount of gold would motivate them, than why didn't insta-queue's motivate them? Because instant dungeons are a better reward than this crap bag.
And THAT is the problem with all this QQ, people act as if a tank gets a guaranteed mount with every bag.
3) Which is complete bullshit, my last bad heroic was around 1 or 2 months ago. That is, random heroic.. My worst experiences are with guildies and premade groups.

Your problem is that you (as do many others) obviously believe that the game-design doesn´t have a huge impact on how players play and behave.

Lets wait until some weeks after 4.1.. I´ll PM you with all the QQ-threads

[reverendball]

boub just confimed the bags are gonna be BoA now

see the front page for proof

so the pures will be able to get teh mounts they are qqing about

they just need a alt that fills the CTA role at the time to qualify

which will shorten the queue times for everyone! WIN!

[Deleted]

The problem for me isn't the fact that Blizzard have come up with a reasonable solution to an issue.

The problem is the DPS have been complaining about the queue times for ages, asking for something to be done, and now that something is being done everyone is upset because a tank / healer will get 20g more, a flask (worth 80g?) and a chance at some loot they probably already have and is also available to everyone else in the game as it stands.

There is NO other way to get under-represented classes to come back and run heroics. If they don't want to, then they don't want to. The only way to get it to happen without throwing the game balance out is with vanity items. The only way to give vanity items without people passing out from disbelief (as it seems so many have already), is to give a rare chance on some long, long, long, long, long, long, long time farmable epic mounts and a good chance to drop a pet that has also been in game for a long, long, long, long, long time or simply grindable by doing the daily fishing quest / some other quest.

This is a good solution. It will work. Stop moaning.

[iceberg265]

maybe the problem witht he current system is that it does not reward anyone enough, i don't see a down side to offering these same to rewards to anyone who q's up solo and finishes the instance.

If you did that, the queue time would be exactly the same. Why exactly does Blizz need to give even more rewards to everyone that finishes a dungeon?

It really astounds me that you are complaining about something that is designed purely for your benefit. The purpose is to lower your queue times and yet you still bitch and bitch and bitch. This is exactly why there are no tanks queuing up now. We don't want to play with people like you.

[mightyquinn]

And I thought the CtA was just a late April fools joke...

[iceberg265]

boub just confimed the bags are gonna be BoA now

see the front page for proof

so the pures will be able to get teh mounts they are qqing about

they just need a alt that fills the CTA role at the time to qualify

which will shorten the queue times for everyone! WIN!

It was actually a blue post, not boub....

[mightyquinn]

The problem for me isn't the fact that Blizzard have come up with a reasonable solution to an issue.

The problem is the DPS have been complaining about the queue times for ages, asking for something to be done, and now that something is being done everyone is upset because a tank / healer will get 20g more, a flask (worth 80g?) and a chance at some loot they probably already have and is also available to everyone else in the game as it stands.

There is NO other way to get under-represented classes to come back and run heroics. If they don't want to, then they don't want to. The only way to get it to happen without throwing the game balance out is with vanity items. The only way to give vanity items without people passing out from disbelief (as it seems so many have already), is to give a rare chance on some long, long, long, long, long, long, long time farmable epic mounts and a good chance to drop a pet that has also been in game for a long, long, long, long, long time or simply grindable by doing the daily fishing quest / some other quest.

This is a good solution. It will work. Stop moaning.

You say that a tank/healer will only get 20g more and a chance to get some other crap that prob already have.. If thats my incentive to tank.. is 20g, a chance at a mount i prob already have, and maybe a flask? IM STILL NOT going to Q up. IT will prob take only 5 mins of the Q times for a few weeks and then just go back to what they are at now

[Deleted]

Quoted for truth.

is it really suffering if you inflict it on yourself? you chose the class you are playing

Its a simple numbers game, there are far more dps then tanks. this will encourage more people to tank and heal your really missing the logic on this one

[Rogrux]

I only queue as a tank if I do two things first:
I bring one of probably 5 guild healers I trust. I also filter our party chat and totally ignore the DPS.

[Azrael1985]

We have to admit that is a clever solution to the lack of tanks (And healers)... I have read too many times the "I dont care how but you have to lower the queue times" by some dps...

Az!

[Deleted]

great change, maybe that was the plan all along, maybe they realized they were being unfair to pures. either way - awesome!

[Durandro]

Someone called DPSing 'lazy'. Sorry, but you're living in Wrath still. DPSing isn't 'hard', but then neither is tanking. Healing is only hard if you're poorly geared or if you're with idiots. If you're a GOOD DPS, then you're actually very focused on doing several things:

1/ Maximising DPS
2/ Minimizing threat
3/ Standing out of the fire
4/ CC'ing/avoiding hitting CC
5/ Kiting
6/ Interupting

So tell me, why does a DPS who does all that and does 15k+ dps overall not deserve a little reward? And don't tell me about reduced queue times. Who cares about that, you can do a daily while you wait. What I care about is the QUALITY of tanks and healers I get. If I get a moron, I've wasted my time and the time of everyone else in the dungeon. I can't kick him, we sure as hell won't complete the dungeon, and I'm forced to even pray for someone else to have a kick cooldown and to get someone better, or to leave, soak the deserter debuff and queue again.

Lack of tanks is not the problem. Its the lack of quality control. Offering free goodies is just going to tempt the bads who were bad at DPS to now be bad at tanking. Only now no-one can carry him.

[Deleted]

As an alternative, why not give people a stacking buff for every minute they are in the queue that increases a set of rewards by a percentage based on your buff stacks.

Example: 1 stack every minute
Example: Stacks increase JP and gold rewards.
You spend 45 mins in the queue you get 45% more jps and gold.

Tweak values until its fair. Then you arn't bribing people to run dungeons, you aren't encouraging people who aren't capable of doing it to queue, you aren't compounding flaws in the vote to kick system. But you are compensating people who have to wait for them. Its not perfect and doesn't help people farming particular piece of gear, but I am sure the idea can be worked on.