Nef [N] 10m P3 Add Tank Healing Help

[Ize]

Our guild has just started Nef and had 2 nights on him so far, getting him to about 35% on a couple tries.
We usually run with 2 Prot Pallys, 1 Frost DK then 3 healers from {Holy Pally, Resto Shaman, Disc Priest, Holy Priest} plus another 4 dps.
The main problem we seem to be having is healing the add tank in P3.

The current strat we been using is:
DK kiting the adds in P1 (all die in the same spot) and having 2 crackles (think we can push a 3rd one but just playing safe for P3 practice atm).
In P2 we are doing no crackles and popping BL.
In P3 we are tanking Nef at an edge with all the raid stack at his back legs, the other Prot Pally picking up the adds (np with getting the threat) and we are sending 1 healer out with the pally (tried R-Shaman or D Priest so far). We are just tanking them in place then moving the add when a Shadowblaze is due so not to have the adds hit.
Everything seems to go ok but the adds just start hitting too hard and we are finding it impossible to keep up with the healing on the add tank.
(I'm assuming the adds must be on the verge on going inactive for a bit but haven't been able to confirm that)

I've been thinking of a couple things and wondering others' thoughts and how you cope with this:

1. Using 2 healers on the add tank after 30-40s & maybe stopping Dps on Nef for a bit to not push crackles at this point until the adds go inactive?
2. Trying to stun / freeze the adds to migrate some hits so their stacks don't get too high? Is there a risk of them getting hit by a shadowblaze doing this tho? Or if timed well is this fine?
3. Continue as we're doing and hope we can push the heals until the adds go inactive for a breather?

Thanks in advance for any tips

[Ssateneth]

Your add tank is failing at kiting if the adds are hitting to hard. Adds are getting hit by fire, so their energy goes to full and they continue to enrage harder. if you're pre-emptively moving during a shadowblaze, adds wont get hit, they'll die shortly, and your tank gets a small break and the adds no longer hit hard. our adds die 2-3 times during p3. also you should be pushing crackles in p2 so your add tank isn't panicing when the room is full of fire because of the shadowblaze firing off really fast. we do 2 in p1 and 2 in p2. raid cooldowns for crackles are great in p2. You have 2 raid walls (2 prot palas), use them.

[narendal94]

You shouldn't pop BL in phase 2, try to push atleast one crackle in phase 2.
In phase 3 when everyone have their positions pop BL. Have your holy paladin healing the tank kiting the adds. Third phase is easy if you kiter is good. Slows might help a little bit but do never freeze them unless the tank is dead. I, as a feral tank, always kite the adds. I slow them with maul and mangle, but remember to move when he is about to cast shadowblaze.

[Deleted]

In P2 we are doing no crackles and popping BL.

why the hell are you popping BL in p2 when you aren´t doing any crackles??

and for P3: tank nef in the middle and kite the adds in a big circle around him.

made this fight way easier for us

[Yeren]

Im currently the add tank healer but we do the tactic of nef and onyxia being tanked by one tank (warrior) and the add tank (Prot pally) taking adds to west side. im resto shaman if that helps.

We are not pushing any cackles until P3 also so its bugger of a job and if the add tank gets hit by shadow blaze once, you could possibly survive, my concern for you is that your add tank is taking a battering, increasing the stacking debuff (ie at 21 stacks he is taking an extra 2100% damage if i remeber from looking at the buff the adds get) and that from 6 adds is ALOT of damage done by the adds, try kiting them aroiund in a massive circle on the edge, Have Nef Tank take Nef north and south according to where your add tank is (opposite end of room to avoid tail lash)

with regards to add tank, just walk backwards slowly avoiding being hit, keep threat and get your pally to use WoG everytime holy power is at max, its helps you out alot.

The Add healer can nearly stay in group and be burden on the other healers by being in range for healz, cause TBH you dont wanna be wasting your own mana on yourself, i use Unleash elements ands riptide on myself to keep things ticking for me and use my healing wave to heal the add tank

Hope i havent confused you too much as its manic at my house right now with 4 kids running around

[Styl]

Hey,

As Narendal said, Save the Bl till P3.

I personally wouldn't push a crackle in P2 unless your healers are capable of healing it ( I know a few of my 10man healers don't normally have the mana to push one in this phase for whatever reason, but it usually doesn't make much of a difference)

For the add kiting, I personally kite the adds for my raid, and we use similar positioning as you, I Pick them up, Take them over to a far wall ( If you're tanking Nef on SE of the circle start your adds over at the SW of the circle and progress North along the wall when you need to move, When you reach East go through the circle and back to your original spot ( If done correctly the first fires should despawn). You can stun/slow them until about the third shadowblaze, Once that one comes out your better off just progressively moving in the direction you need to ( I say dont stun/slow after this point just because you run the risk of mob pathing - attacking ( Where they stand still for a second ) Which can result in the mobs reseting due to a shadowblaze, or ofcourse the mob being to slow/stuned in a incomming shadowblaze ), then when the shadowblaze is 1 second from casting ( DBM Bar ) Haul arse in the direction you need to go. Rinse repeat. They should reset roughly every forth shadowblaze. I'd also reccomend the tank using a cooldown for each crackle ( As a warrior i can SW the first, BH trinket the second, Last stand the third, BH Trinket the forth, SW the fifth. Etc ).

Oh, and either the Hpally or Rshaman should work fine. Also remember to use a raid cooldown for each crackle to soften up how much damage the healer on your add tank takes ( Just to make it a bit easyer). Ie tank 1 bubble wall 60% crackle. Tank 2 bubble wall 50% crackle. Etc etc.

Goodluck

[Ashvael]

Simply said, the adds need to reset. This appears to be your biggest problem right now. The strat to tank Nef right where he lands in the middle area and offtank keeps moving in the big circle is the easiest way if your OT has trouble. Only the MT needs to watch out where the OT is so that the adds never get hit by the breath. He should move Nef accordingly without killing the raid though (breath/tailswipe at bad moment). The OT should simply move slowly (backpedal or slow strafe) while Shadowblaze is on cooldown and then move fast (strafe) when Shadowblaze cooldown is at 1 second. After the Shadowblaze has landed, slow again.

Also, the other problem which was mentioned is BL in P2 without pushing for eletrocutes. Use it in P3. However, since you do have 2 protection paladins I'd go for at least one eletrocute in P2 since the paladin raidwall will cover every platform. Normally, noone should die with Divine Guardian up, however still tell your DPS/healers to use defensive cooldowns in the P2 crackle (DK AMS, Resto Shamy glyphed Stoneclaw, Holy Paladin glyphed Divine Protection, Holy/Disc Priest simply shield, rest of your setup not mentioned but every class got a cooldown). If you push for at least one eletrocute in P2, it's your choice to use BL there or in P3.

[Deleted]

We had same problem. In the end it just takes the tank kiting to get it right. Practice makes perfect.
As mentioned tank nef in the middle. Tank in the middle tanking nef needs to be aware of course to move nef around when the off tank is approaching tail so the off tank doesnt get stunned.
The off tank can then run around the outer edge and all he has to do is try and keep out of fire and ensure nef doesnt buff the adds. It takes practice but im sure you will get it if hes given more time to learn.

Try and push a crackle in phase 2. It does help especially if you having kiting problems. We tried to not have one in phase 2 but always failed in phase 3 on low %. Pushing a crackling in phase 2 got us our first kill.

Blood lust at start of phase 3 so no one is taking much damage and the adds wont have much power and fire wont be every where. When the tank has no more cool down u can send over another healer to help out.
We have Resto druid, holy priest and holy paladin. Holy paladin runs around with the off tank and the priest helps out when tank/pala has no more CDS. Druid keeps nef tank and raid for last cracker while priest is usually helping with off tank.

[Ibramgaunt]

In my group I am the one kitting the adds (Prot pally) my strat to make sure they don't hit me too hard his :

when shadowblaze is about to hit I move them (quite a lot, around 8 -10 yards) then I stun them with holy wrath. the shadowblaze will be far away, so no chances to hit the adds, and the next shadowblaze will come afte rthe stun is over. it prevents 1-2 melee hits every 15 seconds!

[Deleted]

The current strat we been using is:
In P2 we are doing no crackles and popping BL.

Zero reason to lust here, even if you push a crackle don't lust in P2. Your healers and raid will just have to manage to do without it. Remember to stack up and abuse CDs, you have 2 raid walls.

In P3 we are tanking Nef at an edge with all the raid stack at his back legs, the other Prot Pally picking up the adds (np with getting the threat) and we are sending 1 healer out with the pally (tried R-Shaman or D Priest so far). We are just tanking them in place then moving the add when a Shadowblaze is due so not to have the adds hit.

Nef in middle and adds on the side running circles around the room works better imo, more room to kite. Your add tank should aim for 2 resets, and use Holy Wrath as often as possible to stun them (never before a shadowblaze, if possible before a crackle). Naturally communicate and chain CDs as well (remember that the Nef MT casting Raid Wall counts as a CD for your add tank too). There are many tricks a prot pally can do to stay alive here, from proper holy wrath usage to bubbling for 2-3 seconds while they run towards the raid and then canceling bubble so they run back. CDs on every single crackle very important. Adds resetting stacks very important.

Everything seems to go ok but the adds just start hitting too hard and we are finding it impossible to keep up with the healing on the add tank.
(I'm assuming the adds must be on the verge on going inactive for a bit but haven't been able to confirm that)

If they aren't inactive at least once by the time you get to 35% your tank is doing it wrong and letting them get hit by flames.

[ssjohn311]

I think there are some nice vids on youtube on tanking adds. Having your tanks watch these should help them out. Killing Nef relies on your tank being able to reset adds and once they get that down, you will get nef down.

[cleotaurus]

Doing crackles during p2 definitely makes p3 easier. You should at least get one, and two if possible. The healing can be hard, but is doable. You need to make good use of your cooldowns during that phase. For example, as a druid, I will use tree with lifebloom stacks on everyone in my party for the first crackle, and our paladin tank will be using party wall for the second. In addition, individual survivability cooldowns should be used in conjunction as well. DPS players who just blindly button smash and hope the healers will take care of problems will need to be corrected.

Correctly applying a cooldown strategy for p2 crackles turns a seemingly impossible job for healers into a very controlled and easily healable scenario for any class.