Concerned about our DPS

[GloryDruid]

Hello everyone,

I am the raid leader for a small 10 man raiding guild, we are currently 10/12 normal (first Cho'gall kill last night) and with the prospect of moving onto Nef and heroic modes soon I am concerned that some of our DPS are low for their gear level.

If any of you wonderful people have the time to have a quick look over our recent logs and see if anyone is doing anything wrong when it comes to gearing/rotations etc... I would really appreciate it.

I don't want to bring it up with any of our raiders unless there is actually a problem, maybe I am just expecting too much, but I would have thought that with our gear level (just about everyone is ilvl 356 or higher) most of our DPS should be pushing 18k+ for most fights where some are struggling to hit 14k?

worldoflogs.com / guilds / 129446/

The guild is "La Cosa Nostra" on the Aman'Thul (US) realm if you need to armory people.

As we have had some of our raiders away recently the logs include data from a few PUG's so I will list the core raiders here:

Tanks: Gordath, Dirtylarry (swaps to DPS for single tank fights)
Healers: Aedirus, Shamanic, Glory (I swap to Moonkin on some fights or when we get a PUG healer)
DPS: Avea, Tehz (backup tank), Gladewolf, Ninia, Leobin

Cheers,

Glory.

[Zetapuppy]

Hello, Glory. I can't speak for any of your raiders' performance except your cat, Gladewolf, who I have a few critical concerns about. Hope you don't mind the wall of text.

Firstly, his talent spec is for bear tanking, yet it's plainly obvious from his damage logs and glyph setup that his primary role is DPS. This is something to change immediately, in addition to exchanging his glyph of Mangle to Tiger's Fury, Savage Roar, or Berserk. Any of the three that best suits to his play style should be acceptable, but as of right now his performance is limited by a suboptimal glyph configuration. On top of that, his reforging approach is not without its problems; for cats at his item level, his top three secondary stats are haste, crit, and mastery, with mastery being the best by a fair margin. With better gear (close to BiS,) haste eventually becomes equal with crit, but he is treating this as if it were his case. Take his helm for example: with crit and haste, it would be ideal to reforge the weakest stat (haste) into the strongest available one (mastery,) but he is instead reforging the crit into mastery, which is less beneficial. On none of his gear does he reforge haste to crit when applicable, and there are instances where he reforges his best stat, like his chest where he exchanges crit for mastery when hit would be the significantly better option, or where he does not reforge anything at all, such as his pants where the expertise is left untouched. This is very bad because, for cats, 80% of our energy is refunded on a miss, dodge, or parry and is therefore only slightly better than our worst secondary stat, expertise, while still being far behind haste as a relative stat. He's also got a random Stamina gem in his legs, which also has the tanking enchant applied. All of these factors combined will certainly have a measurable impact on his raiding performance.

Speaking of which, there are a number of problems in that as well. From his logs, I notice that on many fights the uptime on his bleeds and Savage Roar are quite a bit lower than they should be, sometimes inexplicably. Take your recent Halfus and Chimaeron kills for example: for these fights, his Rake and Rip uptimes range from 60-70%, which are unbelievably low for fights where he should always be in melee range and where I see he is not on interrupt duty. His Savage Roar uptime is also below 80% both times, which, again, is pretty low. I'm also a little concerned with the odd combat parse showing he did not keep Faerie Fire up or refresh as necessary on the boss, like V&T (60%,) Atramedes (31.2% uptime,) and Ascendant Council (7.1%, which doesn't sound right at all.) The kill parse on Ascendant Council is, unsurprisingly, his worst - as it would be for most Feral kitties - but I fear he does not fully understand the rotation (or, perhaps, the fight itself) and his performance suffers much more greatly than I would expect; his bleed uptime is near 50% and he kept Savage Roar up for less than half of the fight. Across all fights, I saw a distinct lack of Stampede triggers, which means he is not running out to Feral Charge for the free Ravage for additional CPs and bonus damage. The only fights where this isn't doable is Atramedes because of his large hitbox and the positional sensitivity of the Sonar Discs, Al'Akir for some stupid reason, Chimaeron when he is about to throw out the slimes, and on Magmaw and Sinestra because their physical position isn't within a pathable area.

So, to summarize what I gathered:

• His talent build and glyph setup should be changed to the following: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0ZrbGf...zMcz:fzMVwiczm (Glyph of Tiger's Fury may be replaced with Berserk or Savage Roar.)
• Gear should be reforged to prioritize mastery over all other secondary stats, exchanging points from expertise and hit first, then haste. Crit should not be reforged to mastery yet with his gear.
• Replace the Stamina gear in the legs with a purple Agility/Hit gem.
• Apply the Dragonscale Leg Armor to the legs.
• Feral Charge should be used as often as possible without endangering the raid for the free Ravage.
• Serious work needs to be invested into maintaining much higher uptimes on Rake, Rip, and Savage Roar. This is a huge thing.
• Faerie Fire should always be kept up on the boss. It only costs a global.
• Minor nitpicky things include changing the enchant on his cloak to +22 Agility and the one on his gloves to +35 Strength.

Hope this helps you.

[GloryDruid]

Wow, thanks for all of that information Zeta, that is exactly the sort of feedback I am after and I will be sure to pass that information on.

Glade was actually one of the few I was not so worried about as he has recently swapped to his druid from an enhancement shaman (which might explain the rotation issues as he will still be learning the feral rotations) and is the worst geared out of our DPS because of this.

And yet on most fights he has been competitive and ahead of some of our other much better geared raiders!

I think that just proves that if he is able to do so well even with the problems with his glyph's/rotation/reforging then the others really need to be doing better as well.

Thanks!

[Deleted]

I skimmed your Arms Warrior in your Logs and although I can't find him/her on the armory, there is certainly room for improvement. (She seems to have left your guild).

Generally your Arms Warrior on Wendnesday had a rather low uptime on Rend. Overall the uptime was only 67% on a fight like Chimarion. This also resulted in some skewed damage numbers.

The Arms priority is Rend > CS > MS > OP > Slam. In a perfect rotation MS, Slam and OP each deal roughly 20% of the total damage.

However Complicated doesn't use MS on cooldown and doesn't keep Rend up all the time, resulting in less OP procs and occasionally losing the LttS buff. Also, on Chimarion she didn't use a single Heroic Strike. I'm sure there's room for a few on that encounter.

As for gearing, Complicated seems to be socketing correctly and the spec seems ok too. Although I would recommend only having 1 point in Rude Interruption and taking Executioner rather than Booming Voice. But that's no biggy.

However, Complicated is too obsessed with reaching the Expertise cap, yet reamins under Hit-Cap. For PvE Arms wants 8% Hit at all times. That is the most important stat. Expertise is a debatable stat and theorycrafting values it less than Strength or Crit. But again, Expertise isn't bad. I just wouldn't recommend reforging to it.

The Arms rotation will become a little easier in 4.1 but as I saw Complicated just pikced up Foe Reaver, I think she might be happier playing Fury instead. No Dots to keep up and very easy rotation to follow.

[GloryDruid]

Yeah sorry the Arms warrior was actually a PUG, I probably should have listed who our core raiders were as we have had a few absences recently.

I'll edit my first post now so that people don't waste time looking into the PUG's

[solroth]

Hi, I would like to put some insight on your Frost Death Knight, Tehz.

There are currently several things wrong with his spec / reforging / others.

Spec
1. I know you might of needed a frost DK for chilblains, but you have 2 hunters in your parse. They should have frost traps ready whenever.
His Spec should be for DW : http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jbhZMI...fz0h:mMa0bmc0M
The two extra points could be for improved blood tap or Virulence.

2. Needs to Switch out Glyph of Icy Touch for Glyph of Frost Strike. Saving that 8 RP is absolutely necessary.


Reforging
1. Helm : Should reforge it from Haste -> Crit
2. Neck : Haste -> Mastery
3. Shoulders : Hit -> Mastery
4. Back : Haste -> Mastery
5. Chest : Haste -> Mastery
6. Wrist : Haste -> Mastery
7. Main Hand : Haste -> Mastery
8. Relic : Crit -> Mastery
9. Hands : Haste -> Mastery
10. Waist : Crit -> Mastery
11. Legs : Hit -> Crit
12. Boots : Crit -> Hit ( IF NEEDED )
13. Ring1 : Haste -> Crit
14. Ring 2 : Haste -> Mastery
15. Trinket1 : Expertise -> Mastery

Of course Being Expertise capped comes before all else.
You only need 5% Hit due to Nerves of Cold Steel.
So keep these in mind.

Strength > Hit to cap >= Expertise to cap > Mastery > Crit > Haste > Agility

Enchants
1. Boots : Needs to get Lavawalker or Earthen Vitality.
Having a runspeed enchant is critical for DW.
- ( Gotta get there faster )

Other
1. Looking through your Cho'gall Kill ( 9 minutes long ) he only used pillar of frost 3 times.
- 20% Extra Strength on a 1 minute cooldown should be used on cooldown as its absolutely amazing.
2. Only used blood tap 4 times, which is also on a 1 minute cooldown.
- If he knows that if you use it when you only have 1 blood rune full, they will both convert to deathrunes when blood tap is used, that will help alot.


That's all I can think of atm since vicodin is win.
- Hope it Helps!

[GloryDruid]

Thanks for the tips Solroth, Tehz recently swapped to frost from unholy (which might explain all the excess haste as I believe haste is really good for unholy?).

We normally only run with 1 hunter, and on the Cho'gall fight Tehz was responsible for helping with the adds, and I imagine we will get him doing the adds for Nef as well which is possibly why he has chilblains.

Either way, I am sure the tips will be appreciated as he is still learning the ins and outs of frost

[Rezusian]

Your hunter, 'Avea' gemming critical strike rating makes me want to gouge my eyes out.

Spec
Survival really is a sub-par spec in many cases. On some fights it is good, but I would reccomend picking up MM as secondary spec as it yields a better return, hardcasting Aimed Shot is very strong currently. See Elitist Jerks Hunter forum, MM cataclysm thread for specific info.

If Avea wishes to stay as SV, the spec is fine (1/2 Serpent spread is best for most fights pre-heroic modes, freeing up space to put a point in 'One with Nature').

Glyphs are fine.

Reforging

Currently overcapped on hit, some can be reforged off.

All Mastery should be reforged into crit where possible, if not possible then into haste / hit.

Relative to each other, Agi is significantly greater than any other stat with Hit a bit behind. The three remaining secondary stats are fairly close in value. Crit is favored over Mastery with current gear, while Haste is somewhat less clear but is likely better than Mastery.

Enchants

Cloak should be enchanted with + 22 Agility.

Hat should have Ramkahen enchant of 60 Agi / 35 Haste, I assumed he/she is waiting for a purple hat before enchanting or slacking on rep.

Gemming

All slots should be gemmed with +40 Agility, no exceptions.

Ok I lied, one exception, only if the socket bonus is +20 agility is it worth gemming a hybrid gem to match the socket bonus. Other than that, Agility is worth 2-3 times any other stat so is far more valuable than the current +40 crit gems.

Hope it helps.

[Deleted]

Hello everyone,

I am the raid leader for a small 10 man raiding guild, we are currently 10/12 normal (first Cho'gall kill last night) and with the prospect of moving onto Nef and heroic modes soon I am concerned that some of our DPS are low for their gear level.

If any of you wonderful people have the time to have a quick look over our recent logs and see if anyone is doing anything wrong when it comes to gearing/rotations etc... I would really appreciate it.

I don't want to bring it up with any of our raiders unless there is actually a problem, maybe I am just expecting too much, but I would have thought that with our gear level (just about everyone is ilvl 356 or higher) most of our DPS should be pushing 18k+ for most fights where some are struggling to hit 14k?

worldoflogs.com / guilds / 129446/

The guild is "La Cosa Nostra" on the Aman'Thul (US) realm if you need to armory people.

As we have had some of our raiders away recently the logs include data from a few PUG's so I will list the core raiders here:

Tanks: Gordath, Dirtylarry (swaps to DPS for single tank fights)
Healers: Aedirus, Shamanic, Glory (I swap to Moonkin on some fights or when we get a PUG healer)
DPS: Avea, Tehz (backup tank), Gladewolf, Ninia, Leobin

Cheers,

Glory.

unfortunately right now i dont have time to go over your logs.

but anyone in 356 ilvl gear should be able to hit over 14k pretty regularly, some fights ae exceptions , especially if melee are having to run round like headless chickens

in my guild i have two main specs, tank/dps
but i have 351 DPS gear and hit 14 -18k as an unholy DK

my hunter who is 345 ilvl can hit around 15k on most bosses (but hunters are overpowered little aggro monsters in pve atm :P)

12-13k per pseron will get you through norms. and normals is a time to see who your weak links are, if you have anyone below 10k then they really need to go view some guides.

i can hit have a 12k average on omnotron a fight i spend alot of time on not attacking due to having to stay on arcanatron to do interrupts and not being able to attack while his shield is up.

if they are hitting 12-14k they could improve but are not bad players by any means, just link them to EJ and make sure they read up and understand their classes.
make sure theyunderstand their rotation and why they do each thing. the rotations on EJ are for the ideal sitution ie a tank and spank boss that requires dps just to dps.

any players who hit 12-14k have everything they need to be exceptional players they just need to do a little reasearch

[GloryDruid]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate this information and I am sure it will help to push us to clear the final couple of bosses on normal and get stuck into some hard modes!

I do feel that we have a really good team, but that with some slight tweaks here and there things could be stepped up a bit.

Feel free to comment on tanks and healers as well if there are any obvious areas to improve.

[Lichiz]

How is your warlock doing? she seems to be reforging/gearing alright but I can't see her exact numbers

[GloryDruid]

Warlock is lowest DPS on most fights - I would have expected our warlock to be putting out bigger numbers?

12.7k Attramedes last week
12.6k on twin dragons last week
9.6k on Council last week

12.2k on twin dragons this week
9.8k Magmaw this week
13.5k Omno this week
14.3k Maloriak this week
14.2k Chim this week
13.6k Attramedes last night
11.3k on Cho'gall last night

[.Aen]

Those are some pretty terrible numbers..

more deeps yo

[Lichiz]

Warlock is lowest DPS on most fights - I would have expected our warlock to be putting out bigger numbers?

12.7k Attramedes last week
12.6k on twin dragons last week
9.6k on Council last week

12.2k on twin dragons this week
9.8k Magmaw this week
13.5k Omno this week
14.3k Maloriak this week
14.2k Chim this week
13.6k Attramedes last night
11.3k on Cho'gall last night

That is terrible, seeing he's gemming (could be better) and reforging fine...

Is he using Bane of havoc? is he refreshing his Soulfire....
I will check your logs tommorow to help more but this is all I can do for the moment

---------- Post added 2011-04-11 at 01:19 AM ----------

9.8k on magmaw is pretty horrible
On normal it's average to pull around 23k especially with our op Bane of Havoc trick :/

[GloryDruid]

On that magmaw attempt his damage was as follows:

Incinerate 19.3%
Rain of Fire 17.4%
Immolate 17.4%
Conflagrate 7.5%
Bane of Doom 6.8%
Soul Link 6.8%
Chaos Bolt 5.7%
Corruption 5.6%
Seed of Corruption 5.3%
Soul Fire 5.1% (cast 9 times)
Burning Embers 1.9%
Shadowfury 1.0%

[Lichiz]

hmm, even better
He isn't using Havoc at all, something that gives you 15% more dps. I'm not gonna fix his AoE rotation since that isn't important for now but it seems correct what he is doing except for the havoc, so I don't know what is going on. I'm going armory now and check things out

---------- Post added 2011-04-11 at 01:32 AM ----------

he needs to change his glyph of Incinerate to Glyph of Immolate firstly, Use Bane of Havoc more, cast Soul Fire to keep the buff up.
Change his professions to atleast Tailoring instead of inscription and preferably jc/ench instead of herbalism and ignore his gembonus except they are 20+ int. if it doesn't have +20 int, change every glyph into pure intellect
that's all I can do for now

[GloryDruid]

I have just been reading up on bane of havoc, wow I can't believe he isn't using that...

One question I do have (as the wording is a little confusing when reading the comments people have posted about it on wowhead) if you are on a single target fight does it actually do anything?

From the wording, it should only do 15% extra damage if you are damaging "other" targets. But people commenting are saying that the 15% extra will also be generated and applied to your current target if you have the bane on it?

Either way, there are a lot of fights with multiple targets that would be a massive DPS increase.

Thanks for the heads up!

[Deleted]

I have some tips and improvements for your hunter Avea.
Having 1151 haste as a survival hunter is well (to be blunt) bad, you want to have 757 haste as it gives you 1.66 sec cobra shots which lets you fit in 3 cobra's every explosive shot. He is slightly over the hit cap so he can reforge some hit away.
His gems are terrible! He needs to get rid of the 40 crit gems they give him 2 times less dps than 40 agi gems, only go for socket bonusses when they are 20 agi or more.
Furthermore I think he is doing something wrong with his rotation would like to do expression editer but since I have no clue how to do that let me just say that his explosive shot dmg is too high when compared to his cobra shot dmg, they should be about the same. I recommend you let him read the survival hunters guid on the forums here and let him use femaledwarf.com. He's doing something terribly wrong:P I have abound the same gear level as he has and have 8k more dps than he on omnitron.
I wish you good luck on the rest of the normal content And the heroics after

[GloryDruid]

Wow 8k difference is massive.

Thanks again for all of the tips guys, I am excited to see how much of a difference the changes will make.

[Deleted]

Wow 8k difference is massive.

Thanks again for all of the tips guys, I am excited to see how much of a difference the changes will make.

magmaw damage should be way higher, considering theres a vunerable phase were damage is increased and ideally you want to have all adds dead as this phase comes up to maximize the damage when the head comes down.