Another Prot Pala and Hit Rating, but for Heroics.

[Deleted]

I can understand that hit might not be so important when you raid with people you can tell to chill for a second and so, but in Heroics there's alot of trash and some untauntable bosses and when a dps max their dps from start and I wasn't hit capped, I usually couldn't keep the aggro at all, so I tried to reach hit cap but at the same time staying above 65% avoidance or something.

The thing is I do not want to stack hit, since healers in Heroics often slack and I've seen a lot of shamans just spamming Chain Heal all the time, even when they see me taking a major hit or anything. I do not want to die because someone else isn't doing his job properly and at the same time I want to keep aggro so the boss dont run around and kill/hit the DPS and gets a bad positioning.

This is me, dont mind the picture, it wont update: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...bbull/advanced

I'd like every and all help I can get, I don't know much about paladins or their stats, I just know how to play above the average tank.

Thanks In Advance
Bubbull

Edit: Sorry for bad spelling / Hard-to-understand sentences.

[Renowned]

I guess it comes down to fixing the problem that occurs the most often. If you aren't wiping, then who really cares? If you are wiping, is it because the DPS are pulling aggro or because you're dying too fast?

I don't raid so I've geared my paladin purely for heroics: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...erion/advanced
I used to reforge to get closer to the hit and expertise cap, and then recently decided to swap to avoidance and haven't noticed threat becoming a (major) problem, even with my Enh Shammy buddy who reguarly pulls 20k. Sure, he pulls early with a nice string of crits but in the long run I can easily hold him off.

I'd definitely recommend getting those items enchanted though.

Edit: I think I'm logged out at the moment with my JC stam trinket on. With it, kings, fort and 15% buff I sit at about 180k HP, so I swap it out for Throngus' Finger if I decide I don't need that much.

[Mitak]

I have like 2% hit and usually i have no issues in heroics. Only when arcane mage is spiking at the beginning of fights to over 20K, then i am quite annoyed
If you have trash, pull with ave shield, then hammer of righteous, and right after it, holy wrath, that should be enough to keep aggro at the begining, then just consecrate and u are ace. If you have more elemental or dragonkin in the trash pull, use holy wrath before the hammer of righteous as it will stun the mobs giving you more time to take aggro.

Basically you dont need a lot of hit to keep aggro, The most important thing you can do is mark scull and X so you concentate on those mobs the most.

[Deleted]

Thank you, I will use your armory as a kind of standar for my gearing, since I play on a medium/low populated server with my Bubbull, so I probably wont raid much, but I want to be able to pull of the heroics.

Edit: Thank you for the advice Mitak, I usually does that, but sometimes I'm a bit slow with the HW and I try to keep the Consecrate low, since it costs so much mana.

Is there any problems with my spec or my glyphs, that I should swap out?

[Renowned]

That's pretty much how I go about my rotation. I'd say I can generally get a Judgement in after AS before reaching/being reached by the pull. I'd also recommend saving 3HP at the end of each pull since you're probably right for aggro by then, so that you can enter the next one with full strength SotR (if ~3 or less unCCed targets) or Inq + HW/Consec if more than 3 unCCed targets.

Edit: I'd recommend swapping out one of the WoG talents for the Consec mana reduction, since I use it every pull. I rarely have to use WoG.
Edit2: I'd also recommend losing the Dazing Shield glyph, I find it annoying given how often I pull back. It just makes the mobs take longer to get to you, and is particularly annoying if you're trying to silence casters since they won't get as far to you before the silence wears off and they start casting again. I took the +5yds to Hammer of Justice for the occasional time where my taunts are on CD and a ranged has pulled aggro, so I can stun the mob from further until taunt comes off CD.

[Deleted]

Those last piece of advices was really helpful, I too have found Dazing Shield problematic.

[Renowned]

Can I ask if your aggro problems are mostly on AoE fights or single target? If they're on single target (particularly bosses), I like to save 3HP from the previous pull where possible for a SotR off the bat, and then DP for another 3HP SotR straight after. If that still isn't enough, consider popping wings straight off the bat too.

[Deleted]

Mostly AoE, I've got no problem in keeping aggro of bosses and one mob, the problem is when my total threat have been to low and mobs start running towards the ranged, and then when I try to taunt it / pick it up, I might loose one mob on the melees.

And for some reason in old raids, I always loose aggro to hunters pet with growl... xD Like when my guild goes MC, BT and so, some Wolf pet might steal the aggro and the bosses are untauntable, but that never happens in newer content, atleast.

[crowpala]

Haven't had any problems myself as a protadin to hold aggro in 5 man heroics (or raids). I have never been even close to hit or expertise cap in Cata.
AE tanking will always be a issue, but I can't think of a single encounter where you can't use cc's to controll the number of adds that you need to hold aggro on. Mitak wrote something about AE tanking rotation so I will not go into that.

My advice would be, mark up targets, use cc and if a dps can't follow the simple kill order and dies cause he/she are attacking something else then the target they are supposed to, well it's their own fault that they died.
Tell the dps in the group to hold of dps for 2 sec while you get aggro also

On boss fights: what I like to do when I know that my guild mates are going all out at the start is to pop Divine Plea to get 3 stacks on Holy Power up and then use Shield of the Righteous at the start. That has been enough so far for me to hold aggro thru the fights.

On a side not, get your gear sorted with the right gem's and enchants ;-)

[Retsucks]

I can understand that hit might not be so important when you raid with people you can tell to chill for a second and so, but in Heroics there's alot of trash and some untauntable bosses and when a dps max their dps from start and I wasn't hit capped, I usually couldn't keep the aggro at all, so I tried to reach hit cap but at the same time staying above 65% avoidance or something.

The thing is I do not want to stack hit, since healers in Heroics often slack and I've seen a lot of shamans just spamming Chain Heal all the time, even when they see me taking a major hit or anything. I do not want to die because someone else isn't doing his job properly and at the same time I want to keep aggro so the boss dont run around and kill/hit the DPS and gets a bad positioning.

This is me, dont mind the picture, it wont update: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...bbull/advanced

I'd like every and all help I can get, I don't know much about paladins or their stats, I just know how to play above the average tank.

Thanks In Advance
Bubbull

Edit: Sorry for bad spelling / Hard-to-understand sentences.

I don't see why you would miss so much. The only hit I use is what is passively on gear AFTER reforging out of it and I rarely miss on raid bosses. Let alone trash/bosses in heroics. I strongly suspect your DPS is being irresponsible by either going balls deep, or not attacking your target.

http://www.wowprogress.com/character...eden/Texaporte

[Renowned]

Mostly AoE, I've got no problem in keeping aggro of bosses and one mob, the problem is when my total threat have been to low and mobs start running towards the ranged, and then when I try to taunt it / pick it up, I might loose one mob on the melees.

Yeah this sort of chain reaction effect is pretty common I think. If you aren't already, try using a mouseover macro for your Righteous Defense so that you don't have to waste white swings while targetting the aggro-hungry mage.

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,help][] Righteous Defense

[crowpala]

Yeah this sort of chain reaction effect is pretty common I think. If you aren't already, try using a mouseover macro for your Righteous Defense so that you don't have to waste white swings while targetting the aggro-hungry mage.

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,help][] Righteous Defense

You can also use a combination of grid and clique, which I use myself. On grid I can see who has aggro and then I can just click on that person in grid to use RD

[Deleted]

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,help][] Righteous Defense

This does that when i press my RD and hover the mouse over a player, it will be cast, without needing to swap targets? That's great, because I've had big troubles with the swap targeting.

@Retsucks, you might be right, often I loose aggro on mobs I don't focus on, but some dps do and then I tried to fix it with hit rating, so I would do more damage to produce more threat, so I would not have an issue with that. I will just have to tell someone if I think they are going to much on an unfocused target.

I think all of your comments will help me alot in the future.

---------- Post added 2011-04-13 at 02:14 PM ----------

You can also use a combination of grid and clique, which I use myself. On grid I can see who has aggro and then I can just click on that person in grid to use RD

I don't like Grid's interface, I've tried it, but thought it to messy and mashed together.

[Renowned]

Yeah, sorry for not making that clear. I'm currently running with Recount as my only addon. I use the default Blizzard Raid frames, stretch the frames to be as wide and tall as possible. Just hover over whoever has aggro and press the macro (obviously has to be keybound) and it will taunt off them without changing targets. If there is a regular problem child with aggro, I like to focus them so I can check on who they're targeting as well.

Edit (moved from my previous post where it was edited in late): Another thing to consider is that if you have the 15% runspeed, that gets you to the next pull a bit faster than most DPS, giving you a few extra seconds head start. Don't wait for them to catch up. You might also notice that once your survivability goes up, if you have no downtime between pulls you can stun the last mob of a pull and piss off for the last few seconds while the DPS finish it to get even more of a head start.

[zox]

This does that when i press my RD and hover the mouse over a player, it will be cast, without needing to swap targets? That's great, because I've had big troubles with the swap targeting.

I don't like Grid's interface, I've tried it, but thought it to messy and mashed together.

1, yes it does work that way
2, you can customize the crap out of Grid if you so desire.

Edit: you can create a similar macro for normal taunt too (dunno the spell's name)
#showtooltip normal taunt
/cast [@mouseover,harm][harm] normal taunt

PS.: TidyPlates or similar is extreamly helpful too. You can see which mobs you're losing aggro from, and quickly do something about it. Plus it helps with the mouseover macro too

[crowpala]

I have set up grid so I can see who has aggro and who I can Cleanse. The frame around the ones who have aggro will light up red and if they have some shit on them I can cleanse, that will show up on grid as a green dot.

First time I checked out grid, I found it messy myself, but now it's a must for me :-)

[Deleted]

I will look in to this Mouseover taunting and also those TidyPlates, since they sound tidy and clean.

[Renowned]

Just busted out a mouseover macro for Hand of Reckoning.

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,harm][@mouseovertarget,harm][harm][@targettarget,harm][]Hand of Reckoning

Note: I don't even use this. If you mouseover an enemy, it taunts them. If you mouseover a friend, it taunts their target. If you aren't mouseovered and you're targetting an enemy, it taunts them. If you aren't mouseovered and you're targetting a friend, it taunts their target. Doesn't change your actual target at all.

[mihaitha]

I have the following macro on my tankadin:
/cast [@mouseover,harm] Hand of Reckoning;[@mouseover,help] Righteous Defense

I have it bound to middle click and use it for either taunting (when mouse hovers a mob) or getting aggro off a party member (hovering over them or their portrait).

You might also want to check my armory link:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nbubble/simple

As you can see with one DPS hit item (the shoulders) I have managed to achieve a reasonable amount of threat stats (5.69% hit and 14 expertise with SoT) while keeping my avoidance to a level higher than the one you are aiming for. All this without any gear obtainable in raids only.

//edit: a good idea would also be to do a mouseover macro for hand of salvation and bind it, using it on the party member that is getting dangerously close to overaggro'ing.

[Deleted]

Just busted out a mouseover macro for Hand of Reckoning.

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,harm][@mouseovertarget,harm][harm][@targettarget,harm][]Hand of Reckoning

Note: I don't even use this. If you mouseover an enemy, it taunts them. If you mouseover a friend, it taunts their target. If you aren't mouseovered and you're targetting an enemy, it taunts them. If you aren't mouseovered and you're targetting a friend, it taunts their target.

This sounds really useful, might take some tries to learn it, but then it should be really good.