1. #13901
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Well seeing as the owner for Toronto and Winnipeg have left the meetings, I am no getting a good feeling. You'd think that the owner for the sports most valuable entity that is essentially paying the bill for multiple others teams to exist should be in the meeting and not flying back to Canada.

  2. #13902
    Really makes me wonder how much of the problem isn't that the damn owners are fighting internally about what they want or at least are willing to accept. It just really feels like to me that there are a group of owners that are actually willing to bargain, and then another group who is very take it or leave it.

    It really looks like the players are willing to move some things around to make the owners happier, but they can't get the owners to really do the same.

    I really don't understand the owners not wanting to pay the current contracts. Look you signed them, if they took you to court you would be forced to pay them. It just seems like one of those suck it up issues to me.

  3. #13903
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
    No NHL owners in today's negotiating session with NHLPA. Some have gone home, some still around but "owner-player" train left station.

    Goodbye NHL season. The only people in the room for the NHL in what were once owner/player only meetings? Bettman and Daly
    Last edited by conscript; 2012-12-06 at 09:54 PM.

  4. #13904
    Bloodsail Admiral Garbles's Avatar
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    The NHLPA have been on their soapbox telling the world how badly they want to play hockey for months. Well, now it's time to walk the walk.

    Players have been phoning in all day saying they're ready to commit to what the NHL is offering.

    Pens Marehouse left a little while ago...

    No Bettman tonight, hes not even at the hotel, Daly and Batterman

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 04:57 PM ----------

    With Bettman not in meeting -- Batterman and Daly are -- it will be harder to say it's Bettman's delivery spoiling message

    some players want to vote, just do it and lets go already!
    Last edited by Garbles; 2012-12-06 at 10:59 PM.

  5. #13905
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Glad to hear Bettman isn't in the meeting that wrapped up tonight. From Pagnotta, the current negotiations stand at:
    NHL offered to leave arbitration, UFA and entry level deals as is.
    NHL wants current salaries reduced to $300 million (players at $393)
    NHL wants 5 year limits on contracts, 7 if it is your own team, but wants to cap the change in a players salary at 5% per year.
    They haven't even begun to touch on non-contract issues like international play, realignment, contraction, etc.

    So one minute things look like they might be coming together at least slightly and the next you get quotes like "Spoke to a few folks over on the NHLPA side... The simplest way to put it is "things don't look good." " So who knows.

    Lol
    @cotsonika: Apparently players had something significant to say, weren't happy Bettman and owners didn't show up.
    Last edited by conscript; 2012-12-06 at 11:28 PM.

  6. #13906
    The league is stupid, that is all there is to it. If I were the players, I would walk away from the negotiations and tell the owners to try again when they are going to be reasonable and negotiable rather then demanding and controlling.

  7. #13907
    Bloodsail Admiral Garbles's Avatar
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    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 06:17 PM ----------

    What the actual f*ck is going on right now?
    Last edited by Garbles; 2012-12-07 at 12:47 AM.

  8. #13908
    This NHL lockout has become a joke. NHL is just gonna lose even more popularity now with the missed season and possibly fall behind MLS now.

  9. #13909
    I doubt that, MLS views are horrendously low in America, I heard their average weekly audience ratings are something like a million people viewing games, which isn't a whole lot. The NHL at least sells in most of the markets in America, Yanks just don't care about soccer.

  10. #13910
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    This NHL lockout has become a joke. NHL is just gonna lose even more popularity now with the missed season and possibly fall behind MLS now.
    Good luck with that. The MLS Cup featuring the biggest star in the sport (in the US) managed a .7 overnight rating. That is horrible. The NHL finals drew 3-4x times that nationally each game. The NHL set all time records last year in the first three rounds of the playoffs (probably because they finally televised all the games and didn't pretend like certain series weren't happening like Anaheim/Nashville a few years ago). The MLS Cup saw declining ratings again this year and still hasn't been able to crack a 1.0 in the existence of the league.

  11. #13911
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    I didn't know LA won at MLS until after the fact, which is when I found out they won last year too

    and I live like 20min from the stadium

  12. #13912
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I didn't know LA won at MLS until after the fact, which is when I found out they won last year too

    and I live like 20min from the stadium
    David Beckham's wife gets more media coverage in this country than David Beckham, the LA Galaxy, and the MLS lol. AND that is even with the MLS being on freaking ESPN, the main driver of sports news in America. There isn't a better situation to be in for the MLS and still no one cares. I wonder if ESPN told the MLS they aren't carrying them anymore if the league could manage to survive or if it would instantly fold like the WNBA would. By the way, did you know the WNBA was on ESPN? ME EITHER because no one ever watches the ESPN outside of about 15 people on tv and the 13 people at the game. The WNBA, making the Pistons look like they have tons of fans at the game by comparison.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 09:08 PM ----------

    So you know how the owners all left as a more or less fuck you to the players with none of them coming to the meeting? Ya it was because of Fehr. Reportedly the owners told the players yesterday that bringing Fehr back in the room was a potential dealbreaker. Have to imagine the NHLPA wanting to re-add him to the equation is what drove the owners to not show up.

    NHL has rejected the NHLPA offer, several owners have came out and said how disappointed they are with the NHLPAs actions, and more games could be cancelled as soon as tomorrow. The NHL has also informed the NHLPA they have zero interest in speaking with mediators again.

    So gg optimism
    Last edited by conscript; 2012-12-07 at 02:13 AM.

  13. #13913
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Good luck with that. The MLS Cup featuring the biggest star in the sport (in the US) managed a .7 overnight rating. That is horrible. The NHL finals drew 3-4x times that nationally each game. The NHL set all time records last year in the first three rounds of the playoffs (probably because they finally televised all the games and didn't pretend like certain series weren't happening like Anaheim/Nashville a few years ago). The MLS Cup saw declining ratings again this year and still hasn't been able to crack a 1.0 in the existence of the league.


    I may have exaggerated a bit but still immigrants are increasing in the U.S by millions every year and many of them love soccer as opposed to Hockey so it will affect things.

  14. #13914
    What a laughable joke, the owners really do fear Don Fehr don't they? They think they can fuck with the players while he isn't around and get a deal done that is going to screw them over, but that really isn't the case since even Fehr was supportive of the league's offer of paying 300 million of the 392 million in existing contracts as well as a myriad of other issues. Seems more like the owners are the one's causing this process to keep stalling, and demanding that the union head not be present when they want him there wrecked things. Goodbye NHL, have fun dying your horrible death.

  15. #13915
    I am Murloc! Irony's Avatar
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    You can tell WoW changed the MMO for good when players started complaining about the amount of time they sink, into a time sink.

  16. #13916
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    What a laughable joke, the owners really do fear Don Fehr don't they? They think they can fuck with the players while he isn't around and get a deal done that is going to screw them over, but that really isn't the case since even Fehr was supportive of the league's offer of paying 300 million of the 392 million in existing contracts as well as a myriad of other issues. Seems more like the owners are the one's causing this process to keep stalling, and demanding that the union head not be present when they want him there wrecked things. Goodbye NHL, have fun dying your horrible death.

    I don't know, Fehr has been known as an ass for years because of his other negotiations, so as soon as the players hired him it put the owners on the defensive. Honestly I don't really blame the owners, if things are finally moving along why in gods name would you bring him back in. Now if you feel like things are getting away from you then maybe I could see it, but from everything we know atm things were finally starting to get worked out.

    I'll be honest, I think the reason you saw this sudden push is that the higher up players are starting to here the rumbles from underneath them from players not making as much. The big names had more than enough money to ride this thing for a while, I doubt some of the newer guys could afford it as much.

  17. #13917
    Bloodsail Admiral Garbles's Avatar
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    Bettman is a bad boyfriend, he broke up with the PA via voicemail

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-07 at 03:25 PM ----------

    So as it turns out, only 89 of the players are on contracts lasting longer than 5 years, of those 89, just over half are on 6 or 7 yr deals signed as UFA or RFA with their own club. The 5 yr term limits on contracts could conceivably only apply to just over 40 players... So you have to ask, why would the PA be so adamantly opposed to 5 yr term limit when it affects so few?

    Also, many of those 40+ contracts are back diving and likely not do-able in the new CBA. So the # is further reduced.
    Last edited by Garbles; 2012-12-07 at 09:27 PM.

  18. #13918
    I personally wouldn't get too worked up over it. I bet if you went through the last couple of lockouts you will find days where everything seemed hopeless. I still think they won't get a deal done until early next year.

    I would be kind of curious to find out exactly transpired that it went from "somewhat close to a deal" to "No way in hell". I'm sure some will say it was reintroducing Fehr into the mix but it almost looks like whatever happened it was after the talks were over.

  19. #13919
    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    I don't know, Fehr has been known as an ass for years because of his other negotiations, so as soon as the players hired him it put the owners on the defensive. Honestly I don't really blame the owners, if things are finally moving along why in gods name would you bring him back in. Now if you feel like things are getting away from you then maybe I could see it, but from everything we know atm things were finally starting to get worked out.

    I'll be honest, I think the reason you saw this sudden push is that the higher up players are starting to here the rumbles from underneath them from players not making as much. The big names had more than enough money to ride this thing for a while, I doubt some of the newer guys could afford it as much.
    Think about it this way. This is a negotiation, the owners have been on the defensive since the beginning because they know Fehr is by far and away one of the most hard line negotiators to ever represent a union in any business. He doesn't back down and won't advise players of accepting a deal that isn't fair to them, and that has been what has held a new CBA back for so long, fairness. The owners are literally taking everything from the players thinking eventually they will cave and boot Fehr out of his job as their representative. The man isn't stupid and won't accept anything less then fairness and he has every right to continue to hold the players back from accepting a deal because so far no offer has been a fair deal for both sides of this process.

    So the owners can sit there and stew and complain about losing money, if they aren't going to even attempt to make some concessions, and they haven't made any concrete concessions as every single one has been withdrawn, this lockout will continue. The players aren't stupid and they aren't going to get themselves locked into a CBA that doesn't allow for them to have any financial growth as athletes, nor are they going to sit back and accept restrictive free agency policies as well, I certainly wouldn't.

    There are a lot of people to blame for how long this process has taken, especially the union initially, but every time the union makes concessions and moves towards what the league wants, the owners change their mind because they didn't accept the deal. Right now the cards are on the owners table, they could have moved to take the offer proposed by the union the other day and ran with it after some slight modifications, but it seems like every offer the players make that is more in the favor of the owners, the more they turn around and give the players a big old "fuck you".

    Also, the owners walked away from the players after the players requested that Fehr rejoin the process, which screams to me that the owners, and it has been Bettman's intention all along, were intending to undermining Fehr's position in order to get a deal done.
    Last edited by Rennadrel; 2012-12-07 at 09:46 PM.

  20. #13920
    The Lightbringer draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippy88 View Post
    I personally wouldn't get too worked up over it. I bet if you went through the last couple of lockouts you will find days where everything seemed hopeless. I still think they won't get a deal done until early next year.

    I would be kind of curious to find out exactly transpired that it went from "somewhat close to a deal" to "No way in hell". I'm sure some will say it was reintroducing Fehr into the mix but it almost looks like whatever happened it was after the talks were over.
    reintroducing reality probably

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