1. #14021
    Light taps are never called as slashing. When it's a blatant slash and clearly obvious that it was an attempt at slashing, or if you break another players stick with your own, it's going to get called. If you touch someone on the leg with your stick and they don't fall down, at any level of North American hockey, it wouldn't be called. International refs are always happy to blow the whistle even on things that aren't truly penalties.

  2. #14022
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    If they are consistent about it, they're not wrong. And to me, they seem to be.
    I'm sorry that you think the North American way is the only right one, but people seem to have differing opinions.

  3. #14023
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetrisGOAT View Post
    A slashing should always be penalised. The NHL is in the wrong there.
    The hits you talk about aren't clean.
    The only hit I linked was http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=-TIWWQ24wVg which was a clean hit. And if you think a light tap should be penalized then I guess that's just your opinion, man. Having a game balance on something so miniscule and virtually inconsequential to anything happening just isn't right to me.

    Apart from the business aspect, the NHL is above and beyond better than any other league in the world. To think otherwise is really just being bias. So really, the North American is the best way of calling the game. However, the tournament is not in North America so they can call it as weak as they want to. It doesn't really matter anyways, Canada will still win these tournaments on a more regular basis than any other nation. The only other competitive country is Russia. No one else will beat us except ourselves.
    Last edited by Zeoni; 2012-12-30 at 11:10 PM.

  4. #14024
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    That hit is still not clean.
    I think you are a little bit more biased than I am. I am pretty sure I have followed more different markets, and not looked into just one. :P

  5. #14025
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetrisGOAT View Post
    That hit is still not clean.
    I think you are a little bit more biased than I am. I am pretty sure I have followed more different markets, and not looked into just one. :P
    How is it not clean? He didn't leave his feet, he didn't hit him in the head, the player had the puck. Textbook hit. I'm beginning to think you're trolling me. Not even the people in charge of disciplinary actions thought it was a dirty hit either. As seen in the fact that Camara wasn't suspended at all other than the misconduct thrown out on the ice -because the guy got injured-. He was injured through fault of his own. Hey, at least I'm not a lot more biased than you, that's a plus. I watch the best players in the world play when they're not being greedy. I also watch the future best players in the world play. There is nothing better than the best, that's why it's the best.

  6. #14026
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetrisGOAT View Post
    That hit is still not clean.
    In what way was that a dirty hit?

  7. #14027
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    I still don't get how that hit was dirty. Not every hit that results in an injury is a dirty hit. It was a vicious hit, with intent to get Luza off of the puck, watch Camara, he knows where he has to be. So he steps up and delivers a strong check, to a player with his head down. Keeping your head up is day 1 stuff.

    He didn't leap into him, he didn't aim for the head, and he didn't check him from behind.

    It was not dirty, it was vicious. If that's a dirty hit, than Kronwall is the dirtiest player in the NHL.

    You can tell WoW changed the MMO for good when players started complaining about the amount of time they sink, into a time sink.

  8. #14028
    Quote Originally Posted by Irony View Post
    I still don't get how that hit was dirty. Not every hit that results in an injury is a dirty hit. It was a vicious hit, with intent to get Luza off of the puck, watch Camara, he knows where he has to be. So he steps up and delivers a strong check, to a player with his head down. Keeping your head up is day 1 stuff.

    He didn't leap into him, he didn't aim for the head, and he didn't check him from behind.

    It was not dirty, it was vicious. If that's a dirty hit, than Kronwall is the dirtiest player in the NHL.
    And those hits happen frequently in the NHL, and other leagues too. People here went nuts over it because guys were getting concussions from the hits, but it was due to players having their heads down that was causing the injuries. Since then, you rarely see players trying to play the puck with their backs to the rest of the guys on the ice, and everyone chases the puck coming around the corners to clear it out of the zone, and players still get checked the same way from time to time. Considering Luza had his back to the other players on the ice as the puck was coming around the boards, he wasn't properly analyzing the play and couldn't see if someone was coming in on the forecheck to keep the puck in play, he should have stayed behind the puck so he could see what was coming in front of him. It's a pretty standard hit and he got steamrolled because his head wasn't up as the puck came around the corner, Luza was facing the puck pretty much the entire time he went to retrieve it to bring it out of the zone. If you are stupid enough to have your back turned in order to play the puck out of your zone, you deserve to get injured by a player making a legitimate body check.

    And the fact that Camara didn't get suspended just goes to show you that the hit wasn't late, nor was it dirty and illegitimate

  9. #14029
    I have still yet to figure out how that hit would be considered dirty under any rule book. As far as the slashes go, at some point you gotta let the guys play. If there is no risk of injury and its not changing the flow of the play, its not that big of a deal.

    Also when it comes to the " correct way" to play the game, I'm gonna go with the style of the country that created it.

  10. #14030
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikehuntz View Post
    The league will start once Bettman and Daly are gone. Should only be a matter of time now...I mean 3 lockouts with Bettman as commissioner
    A lot of people don't seem to truly understand what is going on in the States. In Canada, the fans have sided with the owners and I will tell you why. Bettman is to blame for destroying the league over the years and we can all agree on that. The thing is, since 2004 (the last lock out) the NHLPA caved and agreed to the salary cap and the other demands. Guess what happened? Parity in the league happened, 9 different cup winners each year and revenue grew from 800 million to 3.3 billion. Bettman and Co. finally nailed it. This time around I can see why the players didn't want to have to give in again. With revenue up and the league at an all time high, why should the players have to take a pay cut, right? The thing is, all of the other sports leagues in North America are a 50/50 split and the NHL wanted to do the same thing. The player revenue was 57% and quite frankly that is too high. There was very little that was actually changing. Just a lower revenue for the players to make it more fair and a few other tweaks like lower contract lengths, 5 years or up to 7 years if a player was loyal to their respective team. At the end of the day the owners run the league, the players are just employed to play. I don't agree that players should be making more revenue than the owners as the owners sign the checks. It's not fair that the owners handcuffed the players, but that's just the way it goes. The league is a business and the owners are trying to bridge the gap and tweak what wasn't right with the last CBA. The players keep demanding asinine things that no company with agree to. Fehr (head of the NHLPA) has brainwashed the star players.

    Regardless of what side you are on (if any), we can all agree that both sides screwed up and gone is all the momentum the league had. Hell attendance was actually improving in many arenas around the States. It sucks big time because once the league does start up again, attendance is going to be absolutely brutal, revenue will be down and it's going to take a LONG time to repair the damage.
    Last edited by KClovesGaming; 2012-12-31 at 01:39 AM.

  11. #14031
    Quote Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
    A lot of people don't seem to truly understand what is going on in the States. In Canada, the fans have sided with the owners
    Ummm... What?

  12. #14032
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    that one is the first one I could say, unequivocally, was a clean hit

  13. #14033
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    Quote Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
    A lot of people don't seem to truly understand what is going on in the States. In Canada, the fans have sided with the owners and I will tell you why. Bettman is to blame for destroying the league over the years and we can all agree on that. The thing is, since 2004 (the last lock out) the NHLPA caved and agreed to the salary cap and the other demands. Guess what happened? Parity in the league happened, 9 different cup winners each year and revenue grew from 800 million to 3.3 billion. Bettman and Co. finally nailed it. This time around I can see why the players didn't want to have to give in again. With revenue up and the league at an all time high, why should the players have to take a pay cut, right? The thing is, all of the other sports leagues in North America are a 50/50 split and the NHL wanted to do the same thing. The player revenue was 57% and quite frankly that is too high. There was very little that was actually changing. Just a lower revenue for the players to make it more fair and a few other tweaks like lower contract lengths, 5 years or up to 7 years if a player was loyal to their respective team. At the end of the day the owners run the league, the players are just employed to play. I don't agree that players should be making more revenue than the owners as the owners sign the checks. It's not fair that the owners handcuffed the players, but that's just the way it goes. The league is a business and the owners are trying to bridge the gap and tweak what wasn't right with the last CBA. The players keep demanding asinine things that no company with agree to. Fehr (head of the NHLPA) has brainwashed the star players.

    Regardless of what side you are on (if any), we can all agree that both sides screwed up and gone is all the momentum the league had. Hell attendance was actually improving in many arenas around the States. It sucks big time because once the league does start up again, attendance is going to be absolutely brutal, revenue will be down and it's going to take a LONG time to repair the damage.
    the PA did agree to a 50/50 split, thats not really the issue anymore.
    Last edited by conscript; 2012-12-31 at 10:45 AM.

  14. #14034
    Dreadlord Alcomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetrisGOAT View Post
    That hit is still not clean.
    I think you are a little bit more biased than I am. I am pretty sure I have followed more different markets, and not looked into just one. :P
    It was a very clean hit. The first thing you learn in hockey is always keep your head up. Just because this Slovakian didn't learn this rule does not mean the Canadian player should pay for it. It was a clean hit from the front, the Slovakian had plenty of time to see it coming, he didn't leave his feet, throw an elbow etc. so what exactly was wrong with it?

  15. #14035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcomo View Post
    so what exactly was wrong with it?
    He goes to hit a player he knows keeps his head down. Thinking "Hey, here's a freebie!".
    Yes, you have responsibility for keeping your head up. But the hitting player has responsibility, too.
    I'm sorry that you can't adapt to international rules, but that's it. It's not clean. It may be in North America, so maybe that needs changing. In North America.

  16. #14036
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetrisGOAT View Post
    He goes to hit a player he knows keeps his head down. Thinking "Hey, here's a freebie!".
    Yes, you have responsibility for keeping your head up. But the hitting player has responsibility, too.
    I'm sorry that you can't adapt to international rules, but that's it. It's not clean. It may be in North America, so maybe that needs changing. In North America.
    So he should just stop and say "sorry buddy I guess you have your head down. You just head right on up those boards, don't want to catch you off guard or anything since you are obviously a poor player" instead of plowing the apparently bad player into the boards? Sorry but this is professional sports, not ballet. A clean hit is a clean hit, just because the Slovakian player is far too horrible a player to keep his head up AND leaves his body open for a clean, solid hit, doesn't mean its the hitters fault for taking advantage of a perfectly set up play. I suppose you think its also wrong if a boxer punches his opponent when they are caught off guard as well? That's about the logic I am seeing here.....

    Again, this is professional hockey. If someone is unable to play at the level then he shouldn't be there in the first place. Maybe its time Europe caught up with the rules and started playing like professionals instead of minor league players crying about breaking a nail due to their lack of skill.

  17. #14037
    The hit is clean in the sense that I cannot see any written rules being broken.

    However, this hit perfectly demonstrates the change in mindset that now permeates hockey (and other sports) in North America: it's not about taking a guy out of a play, but trying to clean another player's clock whenever you can. I think this mindset mostly started in the NHL with Scott Stevens' hits in the 90's and how ridiculously glorified he was for it, and now we have a rash of concussions in the game as people simply keep going out to drill other players in the most physically devastating way that they can.

    Ever watch games from the 70's and 80's? Hockey was just as tough back then, but you didn't see players always trying to catch opponents not looking so that they could clock them and knock them out. Defenseman would be grabbed by forwards and ridden into the boards and the off the puck. Now forwards go in to smash defensemen as hard as they can into the boards, or to try for the most violent open ice collision they can possibly create.

  18. #14038
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetrisGOAT View Post
    He goes to hit a player he knows keeps his head down. Thinking "Hey, here's a freebie!".
    Yes, you have responsibility for keeping your head up. But the hitting player has responsibility, too.
    I'm sorry that you can't adapt to international rules, but that's it. It's not clean. It may be in North America, so maybe that needs changing. In North America.
    Nah, that's not even close to the mindset. He sees the puck, he's a physical player so he takes the hit. He takes that hit on that play 10/10 times regardless of who is on the other team and certainly regardless of if he is aware of his surroundings. This has nothing to do with international rules because he didn't break any fucking rules on that play. That injury is 200% on the Slovak player, maybe if his back was to the play then he would have a case. But no, it wasn't even close to an illegal hit and you seem to be the only person in the world who thinks so. The only responsibility Camara has is to make sure he doesn't hit him illegally.

    Looks like we won the Spenglar cup too, I don't see how we need to adjust to your rules when we dominate your tournaments

  19. #14039
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetrisGOAT View Post
    He goes to hit a player he knows keeps his head down.
    sigh, failing to predict the idiocy of your opponents doesn't merit a major and a game misconduct, penalties called entirely because of the injury, once again if the player being hit knows what the hell he's doing then he gets back up and no fuss is made
    it's irresponsible of the coaches to have such an inadequately prepared player on the team, and irresponsible of the officials to punish others when it seems like the guy never should have been on the ice in the first place

  20. #14040
    Quote Originally Posted by sTyLnK View Post
    A lot of people don't seem to truly understand what is going on in the States. In Canada, the fans have sided with the owners and I will tell you why. Bettman is to blame for destroying the league over the years and we can all agree on that. The thing is, since 2004 (the last lock out) the NHLPA caved and agreed to the salary cap and the other demands. Guess what happened? Parity in the league happened, 9 different cup winners each year and revenue grew from 800 million to 3.3 billion. Bettman and Co. finally nailed it. This time around I can see why the players didn't want to have to give in again. With revenue up and the league at an all time high, why should the players have to take a pay cut, right? The thing is, all of the other sports leagues in North America are a 50/50 split and the NHL wanted to do the same thing. The player revenue was 57% and quite frankly that is too high. There was very little that was actually changing. Just a lower revenue for the players to make it more fair and a few other tweaks like lower contract lengths, 5 years or up to 7 years if a player was loyal to their respective team. At the end of the day the owners run the league, the players are just employed to play. I don't agree that players should be making more revenue than the owners as the owners sign the checks. It's not fair that the owners handcuffed the players, but that's just the way it goes. The league is a business and the owners are trying to bridge the gap and tweak what wasn't right with the last CBA. The players keep demanding asinine things that no company with agree to. Fehr (head of the NHLPA) has brainwashed the star players.

    Regardless of what side you are on (if any), we can all agree that both sides screwed up and gone is all the momentum the league had. Hell attendance was actually improving in many arenas around the States. It sucks big time because once the league does start up again, attendance is going to be absolutely brutal, revenue will be down and it's going to take a LONG time to repair the damage.
    If you seriously think we sided with the owners, you have your head up your own ass. Seriously, we have for a long number of years, had spite for the league and the owners because of guys like Gary Bettman. He refuses to grow OUR game in OUR country when opportunities arise, or he pulls a team out of a city (Winnipeg) because the economy at the time was terrible, then suddenly has a change of heart and moves a team in a still growing market back to the city that once had a team, meanwhile he continues to piss away league revenues on little shitfucks like Phoenix who have proven that they don't give a bloody damn about hockey when another city that used to have a team (Quebec City), wants one back and there are multiple opportunities to grow the NHL in Ontario with Hamilton, north Toronto and Kitchener as viable options.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 03:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeoni View Post
    Looks like we won the Spenglar cup too, I don't see how we need to adjust to your rules when we dominate your tournaments
    Not really hard to win the tournament when the whole roster contained some of the NHL's best players.

    Oh, and suck it Russia!

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