People who are so bad, that they think they are good.

[Subbversion]

Heal with players significantly geared better than me and pull the same HPS. I suck ass for tanking though and would gladly sit for my guild's better tanks to take the raid into success.

Now that we're out of Wrath, I don't drool over epics anymore. I appreciate the fights moreso than the loot. That's where I'm at. I just want to see cool bosses hit the floor.

[Keoren]

I hope you stay out of heroics and hang out with other intolerant people like yourself.

I'm sure you would be one of those guys ragging DPS3 and calling him a slacking loser.

Depending on the level you are playing on the kind of people he described might indeed be getting carried. In another guild the described players, on the other hand, would be the ones carrying someone else. It depends on the overall quality of all the players present and the environment you're playing in.

[Ricecooker]

I've had that too where I just try to be helpful and they just throw it back in my face. I did however have another spriest who was in the top guild of the server at the time (they broke up since then) and she pulled me aside and asked for some help. So the two of us sat at a target dummy for well over an hour. I sent her links to some addons, told her how to stack CD's and little knicknacks about min/maxing and within the hour and half or so that we were there she went from a 5 minute sustained 10k dps to roughly 14k sustained dps. It was honestly the most gratifying day of my life in wow someone actually asked took what I said as non-offensive, took my advice, asked for more, and increased their abilities greatly.

PS they weren't a scrub by any means they were a healer until cata hit when their guild needed them to swap to dps and was unfarmiliar with it.

[mercutiouk]

There does seem to be a decent number of these in heroics too. Very good dps - dies in fires, nukes the target the tanks not even touched, no idea where their interupt button is etc etc while being SURE they are super awesome.

Folks who are a bit slow or "green" i'll work my ass off to keep alive (I usually tank HC's now as my enchancer is gearing in heroic raids so it feels a bit pointless) morons who clearly have head up ass i'll request the healer let die if they start nuking something stupid. They need bringing down a peg or 2 certainly.

[DiNet]

There are even guilds entirely of guys like those
i love random "caps" name guild most

[Cosima]

I hope you stay out of heroics and hang out with other intolerant people like yourself.

IMO, this is just fine, nobody is being carried.

Tank: 5K
DPS1: 11.9K
DPS2: 12.5K
DPS3: 10.1K

I'm sure you would be one of those guys ragging DPS3 and calling him a slacking loser.

You clearly misunderstood what I said.

Why would I expect someone that I get grouped up with in a random heroic to preform at the same level as those I used to spend 4 night a week raiding with? Ofc, dealing 10,1k DPS in a random heroic with 246 gear isn't really what you prefer to get grouped with, but complaining about it is pointless.

When you're in a top end raiding guild, and you preform at the absolute higher level possible for your gear, I feel you have the right to expect the same from your fellow guild mates, as long as maximum progression is your guilds goal. If your guild has no plans of reaching a decent realm/world rank, then you have to either deal with it, or find another guild that better suits your own goals. WoW is such an easy game when it comes to rotation etc, that simply reading for maybe an hour on the Internet is enough to know more than just the basics of your class.

[mockturtle]

I was never the absolute best player in the game.

One thing that I always got a kick out of was how stubborn people were about ways to control their characters. They would insist that having a single action bar that they clicked (or some variant of that) was somehow not impeding them.

The kicker for me was reading a thread where someone commented:
"How do you back up without turning (while still facing the enemies) with a mouse?" I don't believe anyone in several pages of discussion answered and it was considered a valid point. That's when I realized just how poorly a large portion of people playing the game played.

[The answer was that you can run in something like a 179 degree angle in either direction from the boss and still technically face them].

[angelx7x]

Meh, I'm not seeing a lot of people being carried through any raid content at this point.

Sure, you can be carried through some of the first easy encounters, if you can find a guild crazy enough to take you. Anything beyond that is a lot harder, since most fights have stuff in it where even a single dps can wipe the etire raid in seconds. (think of lightning rod, the sonic discs, parasites, engulfing magic, corruption over 50% etc) And then I'm not even talkig about hard modes yet. People can pretty much forget about being boosted through those, apart from Halfus and Chimaeron maybe.

how do sonic discs wipe a whole raid?

[andr0id]

You clearly misunderstood what I said.

Why would I expect someone that I get grouped up with in a random heroic to preform at the same level as those I used to spend 4 night a week raiding with? Ofc, dealing 10,1k DPS in a random heroic with 246 gear isn't really what you prefer to get grouped with, but complaining about it is pointless.

When you're in a top end raiding guild, and you preform at the absolute higher level possible for your gear, I feel you have the right to expect the same from your fellow guild mates, as long as maximum progression is your guilds goal. If your guild has no plans of reaching a decent realm/world rank, then you have to either deal with it, or find another guild that better suits your own goals. WoW is such an easy game when it comes to rotation etc, that simply reading for maybe an hour on the Internet is enough to know more than just the basics of your class.

Within your guild, I think the overall consensus and feelings of the members as to the level of skill expected is completely what you agree on within your guild. If you think .01% difference is being carried, so be it. You'll either find like minded players, or your standards will be so high that your guild only has 5 players (and 4 of them are your alts)


What annoys me, is that many hard core raiders, (especially younger ones it seems) don't know how to differentiate between guild raids and randoms and treat people badly when it is not deserved.
There's a difference between average, great and totally sucking, but to them, average is sucking.

I'll throw numbers out for cata heroics that I think are realistic. Of course it depends on class and the fight, but in general:

Great > 14K
High avg: 12-14K
Avg: 8K - 12K
Low Avg: 6-8K
Mostly Sucks < 6K

I'm OK with being in a group with low avg as long as they're not pulling stuff or dying all the time.

For full disclosure, my DK, ret pally and warlock do high avg DPS, my warrior (despite my best efforts) is avg DPS. I consider myself an informed and competent player, but I am entry level raid material at this time.

[Auralan]

how do sonic discs wipe a whole raid?

If a person moves to early, he can cause a disc to go the wrong way. The rest of the raid will then most likely get hit by it for a few ticks when moving. On heroic, being hit for even a few ticks can already be fatal. (the sound added per tick is significantly higher)

[Razhel604]

I work from home 3/4 of the time, and when i do im playing wow. That being said I have to afk quite a few times during trash...so my guildies ALWAYS carries me through trash, and when the boss fight starts im usually at 90% attention.

Though sometimes i'll have to afk at the start/finish of a boss fight and i usually end up dead. But they are ok with this since im at work.

my dps goes from 6k (not paying attention) to ~12k (when i do pay attention on boss/trash fights) so i make up for my afk :P

[Frumpy Frumpy Frak]

You are the scrub sir. Being 3/12, you aren't carrying shit.

As someone who never got to see any Wrath hard modes because of my guilds' fuckery, I'd just like to say that progression is not an indication of any individual's skill level.

I'm not arguing that they aren't bad or anything, I'm just saiyan.

[Boloney]

Beat em in a duel. That always seems to work.