Animals in mourning...

[Deleted]

So, I'm a bit bored at work and came to think about our beloved animal friends and their alleged ability to mourn.

Most of us have heard about or seen elephants going on a detour so they can pass by carcasses of dead members of the group, picking up their bones and acting in a manner that resembles what we humans would describe as mourning. Same goes for pets who have lost a long-time friend/mate etc etc.

What do you guys think, can animals mourn the loss of a family member/group member? If so, does this apply to all animals or just a chosen few, and do you believe that the feelings are similar to what humans have and would that categorize them as sentient beings?

[Shiikarii]

When my great uncle died, he parrot became visibly depressed. It stopped talking and wouldn't come out of its cage. Then, iirc, it's feathers started to fall out. That surely suggests that he was mourning over the loss of his owner.

[Grizzled TM]

Does an animal experience happiness? does it experience pain?, seeing that an animal is well capable of experiencing different *human-like emotions* i'd reckon they're able to mourn as well. But I also think that it has something to do with the type of animal. I.e. animals that live in packs would show this more obviously compared to animals that live alone.

[arcticsnow]

Yes social species mourn. Crows are said to have crow funerals sometimes for their dead.

[Menkey]

My dog is obsessed with my grandmother. My grandmother left to go on a trip to Florida for a week, and my dog was very noticeably different. Constantly walked into my grandmother's room to see if she was there, whimpered often, would pull her head away when we pet her, even didnt rush to eat her food sometimes (we put ANY food in her dog bowl, she ALWAYS rushes over to eat it asap).

My grandma gets home, she goes fucking crazy with happiness. She was completely normal after that. Technically my grandmother wasn't a "loss" but my dog definitely noticed and reacted severely to her temporary disappearance.

[Honzi]

Well we had 3 bunnies when i was a kid (father/mother/kid). Once the mother died, the father stopped moving and just sat there, he wouldnt react to anything or eat. A few days later he died. After that the kid went completely mad and attacked everyone, a few days later also the kid died.
So I surely believe an animal can mourne or even get depressed and lose the will to live.

[Auxis]

Yes social species mourn. Crows are said to have crow funerals sometimes for their dead.

I wouldn't be supprised about that, given those smart bastards are able to open sealed bags of chips and various other wrappers, I can definately see them digging a hole.

[noteworthynerd]

I think animals certainly have the ability to mourn... When my friend's father (whom he lived with) passed away, his dog seemed to be in mourning... The dog wasn't very old (2-3) and was always hyper and energetic before his owner passed, but afterwards, all he would do was sit in the chair that my friend's father used to sit in, or walk very lethargically through the house. Things he used to go bonkers for didn't seem to phase him (like treats and new toys), and the only time he would interact with anyone was if he had to go outside... It took close to a year before the dog was willing to play again.

I don't have any specific examples of animals mourning over other animals, but I seem to recall hearing stories of dogs whose personalities are altered greatly after the passing of another pet in the family.

[Deleted]

So, I'm a bit bored at work and came to think about our beloved animal friends and their alleged ability to mourn.

Most of us have heard about or seen elephants going on a detour so they can pass by carcasses of dead members of the group, picking up their bones and acting in a manner that resembles what we humans would describe as mourning. Same goes for pets who have lost a long-time friend/mate etc etc.

What do you guys think, can animals mourn the loss of a family member/group member? If so, does this apply to all animals or just a chosen few, and do you believe that the feelings are similar to what humans have and would that categorize them as sentient beings?

that sentent that is highlighted, i do beleave that anything living that can feel pain and stuff like that is a sentient being, and yes i do personaly beleave that animals can mourn and feel loss and pain and cry over losing a mate/friend/owner whatever

[zox]

When my great uncle died, he parrot because visibly depressed. It stopped talking and wouldn't come out of its cage. Then, iirc, it's feathers started to fall out. That surely suggests that he was mourning over the loss of his owner.

I think it's more like missing him. I'm not sure if animals are capable of mourning as we do. It's pretty hard to test, and very-very easy to anthropomorphise. My guess would be that most animals don't have the intelligence level for "real" mourning. Probably those select few who have self-consciousness...

[Deleted]

that sentent that is highlighted, i do beleave that anything living that can feel pain and stuff like that is a sentient being, and yes i do personaly beleave that animals can mourn and feel loss and pain and cry over losing a mate/friend/owner whatever

That is a interesting subject to discuss, because of the two-sided definition of the word "sentient". Wiki tells us this:

"Sentience is the ability to feel, or perceive, or be conscious, or have subjective experiences. 18th century philosophers used the term to distinguish the ability to think ("reason") from the ability to feel ("sentience"). In modern western philosophy, sentience is the ability to have sensations or experiences with a subjective quality known as "qualia". For Eastern philosophy, sentience is a metaphysical quality of all things that requires respect and care..."

Would this imply that the eastern philosophy defines certain type of feelings as sentient and others as non-sentient. So feeling pain, happiness and such would be categorized as non-sentient while love, affection, loyalty, respect etc would fall under sentient feelings?

[Deleted]

I also have a pic where a dog lies beneath his dead owner ( covered with a cloak )
so yea, I think they do mourn

[Hatyre]

I had a rabbit once, a little mini-rex named Tank who only lived to be six months old. (He got a horrible tooth infection, wouldn't eat, we caught it too late.)

A few days before that, we had gotten a kitten, a little boy named Indy who is still with us today. Indy and Tank adored each other, and Indy would sleep outside Tank's hutch and pen with Tank settled in on the other side.

After Tank died, Indy got very grumpy. He would attack me in my sleep, knock his food and water bowls over (not in the typical curious kitten way, it was very deliberate), and I would find him sleeping in that same spot where Tank's pen had been.

He got over it after a few days, probably because he's a cat and not another rabbit or a social animal like a dog. But he dragged his cat bed over to that spot and it's still his favorite place to sleep, so I can't help but wonder...

[ophion1990]

When my great uncle died, he parrot became visibly depressed. It stopped talking and wouldn't come out of its cage. Then, iirc, it's feathers started to fall out. That surely suggests that he was mourning over the loss of his owner.

Had the same thing (well about the same) with a bird from my aunt.

Also when my bird died we buried it in the yard and my cat would always sit next to its "grave". When my sister moved out she took the cat i mentioned but it was really unhappy there since it mised its old home and lost its hair etc its not really mourning in that case but it proves they feel to :d

Oh and reading Menkey's post reminded me, when we went on a trip we obviously couldn't take the cats with us so we let someone give them food etc. But when we came back they just ignored us all they did was whine for food because they were pissed we left them it only took about a day or 2 most of the time though

[zox]

I also have a pic where a dog lies beneath his dead owner ( covered with a cloak )
so yea, I think they do mourn

Defending an injured or incapacitated member of the pack (in case of dogs) doesn't mean they are mourning the loss. As I said earlier people tend to anthropomorphise animals, and imagine emotions and motivations that are just not there...

[critterkiller]

I saw a dog once draggin his bud out into the street and then he sat there howling before animal control took him. i remmember my GF cried so much :'(

[Deleted]

I also have a pic where a dog lies beneath his dead owner ( covered with a cloak )
so yea, I think they do mourn

Wow. That video... Damn, I'm crying so much right now.. That's just sad..

OT: I do believe Animals can feel grief and sorrow.. Our cats have showed it a bit for some days after having lost one of our other cats and so..

[Puri]

[Deleted]

Defending an injured or incapacitated member of the pack (in case of dogs) doesn't mean they are mourning the loss. As I said earlier people tend to anthropomorphise animals, and imagine emotions and motivations that are just not there...

You cant expect from a animal to think like humans
they don't say hey now its 1 year that X died, we should have a mourn minute

I would say like in the vid, if the cat tries to "save" his/her friend then there is a strong bond between them and that the cat doesn't accept that the other cat is already that is a sign for me, that the cat is sad about that she / he died.

also sorry for my english

[zox]

You cant expect from a animal to think like humans
they don't say hey now its 1 year that X died, we should have a mourn minute

I would say like in the vid, if the cat tries to "save" his/her friend then there is a strong bond between them and that the cat doesn't accept that the other cat is already that is a sign for me, that the cat is sad about that she / he died.

also sorry for my english

I'm not expecting the animals to think like humans. I don't expect them to feel like humans either. I'm saying that humans in general anthropomorhise animals. I'm not denying that there can be strong bonds between animals, especially those that live in groups. It's a survival trait to have such bonds.

What the video shows more than anything however, that the cat has no concept of death. I don't think it can mourn for that reason.