I'm glad Firelads is delayed.

[Deleted]

Considering that when firelands goes live, all the current valor purchases are being dropped to justice points.

The 'we should have to go back to farm for gear' arguement is kinda obselete except for a few pieces of gear. It is going to do exactly what wrath did by making new badges farmable from heriocs. Just without changing the actual badges you get from it.

I Personally have slouched with gearing my offspec, and instead have spent my valor on BoE boots everytime i got enough and sold them for gold. Because as soon as 4.1 comes i ca cap my valor with 3-4 raid bosses and hcs. then 4.2 i can get the epics for justice points.

It Will be the same again, the only difference is the NoN-Removal of drakes. Which means you will go back to complete it to then get your drakes, Something witch Naxxramas didnt have.

[thelordymir]

Why do so many people gobble up these hard modes as some sort of new and exciting content. Heroic Halfus is just Halfus with something extra, he's not new, he's not more interesting, he just had +1 gimmick.

When you run HoO then do it on heroic are you suddenly amazed at the new content you are seeing?

I fail to see your point. The top guilds did what your guild is struggling to do in less than half the time but you're just as good? That's like saying someone who can run a mile in 5 minutes is in the same shape as someone who runs it in 10 minutes, it just took them longer.

There is a huge difference between guilds who are SPONSORED to play this game and other people. People have irl shit, jobs, families, they can't devote spending 12hrs a night to clear Sinestra before anyone else can or some other crap, it doesn't mean they arn't as good.

[Playintrafic]

Naxx was just too many bosses, and aside from the end wing bosses it was simply too easy. Back when the orginal naxx was released, you had naxx and that was it.

When Naxx 10/25 came about you had VoA, OS , Naxx, and Maly. And of course OS3D. No wonder no many people cleared the entire tier. Add into that 10m and 25m difficuluties and it was a lot of content. Then ulduar came about, a new boss in VoA but nothing else was worth doing, then you had ToC which was just stupidly easy, the only real challenge in the entire raid (if you could even call it that was faction champs. My guild one shot that enitre raid with the exception of faction champs (took us 2 trys) the first time we stepped in there. It was a joke.

These days Raiding is progression oriented and not tier oriented.

[Aurzon]

So you're on the same level as a top 200 in the world, 10 and 25 guild but your schedule prevents you from being 13/13?

I fail to see your point. The top guilds did what your guild is struggling to do in less than half the time but you're just as good? That's like saying someone who can run a mile in 5 minutes is in the same shape as someone who runs it in 10 minutes, it just took them longer.

Okay, for your example, the person who did the 10 minute run ran half of the race, then had to stop to go to work for 5 minutes, then came back two nights later to finish the race. Both runners are in the exact same shape, one runner just had to go to work in the middle of the race.

[Spoogles]

Bliazzard caters for casual players b4 hardcores

ask yourself this in what way shape or form does it make ANY SENSE to supply on demand, 5% of the player base (hardcores)? Why do that when we can Supply on Demand to 95% of the player base =O and make them more happy and hence get more playing.

Everyone pays the same for there accounts, that hardcore raider with no life at all pays the saem every month as that guy that is still lvling in the barrens because he can't find manriks wife!

They Both pay equally! BUT 1 of them has a player base 19TIMES!!!!!!(casuals) bigger then the counter (hardcores).......

So I ask you this!?! If you ran a business and you had to cater for either 5% or 95% of the population from a business perspective who would you serve first and make sure they keep coming back ????

5% vs 95%... go figga

[wafflezlol]

am i the only one to notice the title says Firelads?

[Kiry]

I am sorry but I still dont get why people who are working on Hardmodes are excited to clear this content before Firelands. Um, it's the same boss you did on normal with a twist. I know it's about perspective, but I honestly feel cheated on that in warcraft today's hardmodes are consistered new content.

Our guild is 7/13 - I know we want to get as far as we can, but really - give us new content please. pllleeeasseeee

[Herrenos]

Paragon at least has claimed in several interviews, as well as members of that guild have posted on this site saying that they are not paid, not by sponsors nor by blizzard. They do get some free hardware from sponsors, gaming equipment and even some PC's and the like, but they are not paid - most of the members of Paragon took vacation time from work, then sacrifices their own sleep to down the content.

Why do you think the EU almost always has world firsts? I guess you could argue that Europeans are better at video games, but I think it's the 6-8 weeks of vacation they get over there vs 2 or 3 here.... Most of the truly elite WoW players are old enough to have "real jobs", and more time off = more progression.

[Marrel]

So you're on the same level as a top 200 in the world, 10 and 25 guild but your schedule prevents you from being 13/13?

I fail to see your point. The top guilds did what your guild is struggling to do in less than half the time but you're just as good? That's like saying someone who can run a mile in 5 minutes is in the same shape as someone who runs it in 10 minutes, it just took them longer.

If you look at the amount of time Paragon and your average semi-hardcore guild spend in raids, from the time they start raiding a new tier to the time they clear it, it is probably fairly close.

-When new content comes out guilds like Paragon raids 12-18 hours a day 7 days a week until everything is clear.
-Semi-hardcore guilds raid about 3-5 hours a day for 3-4 days a week.

Guilds like Paragon put in more hours in one day of progression raiding (12-18 hours/day) than my semi-hardcore guild does in and entire week (12 hours/week). Guild's like Paragon clear their content much faster if you go by normal time, but if you add up the number of hours spent actually raiding in game the time is roughly the same.

(and for reference my semi-hardcore guild is 6/13 heroic)

[Ranikotar]

I'd rather then get their stuff together then rush and make a fight like Sinestra that isn't even ready by the time the first guild(s) see it. That frankly was a complete disappointment to watch and read about.

I'm bored of this tier but I want the nest one to be hard(er) and force you to keep farming the older tiers to begin the second tier level. Wrath sucked the life out of raiding.

Sinestra being rushed out? She was buggy as hell to begin with (Like Algalon) because she was a secret boss (Like Algalon) and was not released on the PTR (Like Algalon).

Have you at least killed a few heroics? Until you have I wouldn't be bored of this teir just yet. This teir is probably the hardest I've played in (Started in late BC but really started in wrath). The gap in difficulty between the heroic encounters this teir is enormous from what I've seen. The gap between H Halfus and H ODS/H V&T is huge and the gap between H Halfus and H Council is even larger. Sure people may say they're easy but when you were learning them they were a PITA.

If you find this teir to easy for you get to/pass 4-6/13 heroic before you complain. No i haven't seen it but I've seen how rough it can be and how annoying it is to get down.

[Tap Dancer]

Didn't Blizzard design the raiding tiers in Cata with Normal Modes catered to casuals, and the Hardmodes dedicated to hardcore/semi-hardcore guilds? or am I mistaken?

[PhilCosby]

am i the only one to notice the title says Firelads?

Yes, why I think you are. Good catch wafflezlol.

[WeaponXAnimosity]

What's "Firelads?"

[Resentful]

I am sorry but I still dont get why people who are working on Hardmodes are excited to clear this content before Firelands. Um, it's the same boss you did on normal with a twist. I know it's about perspective, but I honestly feel cheated on that in warcraft today's hardmodes are consistered new content.

Our guild is 7/13 - I know we want to get as far as we can, but really - give us new content please. pllleeeasseeee

It's been like this for awhile, give it a break. Your going to be whining in firelands too

[Cyriaa]

If the most you've done in this tier is Heroic Halfus (post nerf) you really have no validity in anything when speaking of heroic fights.
Halfus wasn't nearly as much of a joke as he is now on heroic pre nerf. He was still easy yet, but not nearly.

Heroic Al'akir is nothing like regular Al'akir, it's pretty much two completely different fights. Same thing goes for heroic Valiona & Theralion, and for P1 and P2, Heroic Nefarian. (haven't downed him quite yet but P3 seems to be relatively the same as long as your healers have mana).

To add on the other guilds that are in the top 200 that everyone keeps referencing, there are guilds that are sponsored and paid (maybe not Paragon, but Paragon isn't every guild.) and they also have their guild members participate in the Beta testing for those bosses. And if you wanna get really down and dirty, Europe got Cata 12 hours ahead of the US, which gave them 12 hours more time leveling, 12 hours more content experience, 12 hours more etc.

You also have to take into consideration server population and the quality of players. I'm on a mid sized population, obviously we're not going to be nearly as progressed as a higher population server, like Illidan and such. But that doesn't mean that we don't "really want to down the content".

So as far as

People have had plenty of time to clear if they really were as determined to get 13/13 as they say they are

You really need to get out of your high horse, and see that not everybody has the luxuries that maybe you or your friend has.

Edit: I saw that it was "firelads" as well, I figured it was a typo and not worth making a big deal over.

[godofslack]

Delaying content is always bad. Get that always. The issue here isn't that there isn't the amount of time to clear the content (as quite a few people are mislead [mostly by their egos] to believe) but, rather as soon as a new tier of content is released the previous one gets shoved aside. I like to use the examples of Vanilla and TBC to show that multi-tier raiding can work. Ok, to better understand that you use the lovely ability to look into the past and make comparisons with the present. Bang (that's the sound comparisons make). Now you can think what did Vanilla and TBC have in common that could cause multi-tier raiding? Attunements? Nope, none for AQ and Naxx's was just a gold sink. Resistance Fights? Sort of, but they usually weren't relevant for the first few boss. Badges? Bingo.

See, badges as a system makes no sense for progression (talking about getting previous tier gear of regular heroic bosses). How does killing Baron Ashbury deserve the same reward as killing Cho'gall? He shouldn't of course.

Now, since I like providing solutions instead of just pointing out problems here's mine, feel free to try and poke holes in it. Instead of having the later t12 bosses balanced around 359 gear have them balanced around a mix of 359 and 372 gear and bang you have reason to go back into BWD, Tot4W, BoT etc. Now some of you are wondering "how does this benefit me", well good you asked, I'll divide the player base into a few basic groups, ~1/2 done tier 11, done tier 11, ~1/2 done tier 11 HM, done tier 11 HM. ~1/2 done tier 11, this is good for you because suddenly you can get tier 11 gear from heroics, because it doesn't matter anymore; more gear means more bosses down, check. Done tier 11 you can now see new content progress on some challenging but manageable fights while getting more gear for HM progress, check. ~1/2 done tier 11 HM, again new content, and again you get more gear that will help you pull that extra little bit of DPS/HPS/survivability to kill your HM progression bosses, check. Done tier 11 HM, more content, check.

So really, try to point out a single flaw with that system, because I can't see one.

[Ranikotar]

Delaying content is always bad. Get that always.

The exact same with rushing out before it's tuned to a reasonable level or before most (Most =You're probably gonna have at least 1 bug pop up) of the bugs are fixed. Firelands isn't on the PTR so if they released it within the next 1-2 weeks it would probably horribly tuned and have a handful of bugs.

[Lordender]

whatever people have to tell themselves to make it to the next patch. Here's a shocker, 4-5 months after 4.2 people are gonna ask wheres 4.3, lol.

Blizzard isn't going to admit to you that firelands is/was behind schedule, they'll tell you that you're not ready yet or we want other people to experience the content a little longer. I am willing to bet there was a big problem with the Firelands production which pushed it back by a couple of months but they're not going to admit to that, what company would admit to something like that?

Please stop using "Blizzard needs time to test this and test that" Did we even play the same expansion? Cataclysm is the buggiest thing I have ever seen in the last 4 years. Bugs that got past the Q&A team blows my mind, Cataclysm should have been delayed until 2nd qtr of 2011, the release is just not that good. Blizzard had Cataclysm on the PTR for months and missed some huge bugs, they can't even fix phasing issues for gathering in 2 zones.

The bottom line is this: WoW is climbing up on its 7th year this year, its in cut corners/save money mode so they can drop the big bucks on Titan development. Don't expect anything game breaking and you'll never be let down.

[Amsner]

Yes actually it was. The original plan was for it to come out in 4.1. Then they said that it wasnt going to be ready and they wanted to work on it longer. Then they came up with some BS that said they wanted smaller content patches to cover up the fact that they were in fact delaying it.

You misunderstand what you just said. Patch 4.1 WAS planned to hold firelands in it, BUT Firelands is a ways from done, ZA/ZG and all the other changes are damn near finished. Bliz said, 'HEY, heres an idea! why not instead of DELAYING 4.1, release ZA/ZG/changes and such, and make firelands 4.2?'
my point being, firelands will be released the same time if they call it patch 4.1, 4.2 or 4.9thousand. The only thing thats changing is ZA/ZG will be released sooner because its damn near finished, and they wanted to give us some new content now.

If Firelands WAS going to be pushed back, it would be more along the lines of, 'We don't feel that there has been enough time between the start of tier 11, and now, so we will be pushing back this patch for x amount of time.'

[drogoganor]

The bottom line is this: WoW is climbing up on its 7th year this year, its in cut corners/save money mode so they can drop the big bucks on Titan development.

Oh, always with this derpedy derp line.