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  1. #1

    Are Kitties Competitive For Raids Hard Modes?

    I don't know anymore...

    My damage plays yo yo from one reset to the next. It's either high or crap - more often not on par than high.
    I'm still hampered by a lack of AOE damage which is meh since so many fights have those...
    And the occasional positional requirement nonsense that gimps my damage (i.e. facing Maloriak on red phase, or Alhakir on p2, taking blackout in front of Valiona ... etc).

    Anyhow, I wonder. Do you reckon cats are competitive for raids hard modes?
    Last edited by Tareum; 2011-04-19 at 01:51 PM.

  2. #2
    According to worldoflogs.com we aren't "competitive" but we do a decent enough amount of damage that if you find being a cat fun, you'll still enjoy playing one. I know I find the position dps requirements frustrating beyond belief, but at least in 4.1 they're throwing us a bone and doubling Swipe's base damage.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
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    The swipe dmg buff will sure bolster your dmg during aoe parts.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Morgntreeman View Post
    at least in 4.1 they're throwing us a bone and doubling Swipe's base damage.
    Swipe does decent damage atm. It's running out of energy after 2 swipes that means our AOE damage numbers are crap, not the damage the ability itself produces. Imo we need better regen - or possibly a tweak to OOC with dramatically increased chances to proc on swipes.
    That screams of quick fix to me.

    Also, think of the aggro...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tareum View Post
    Swipe does decent damage atm. It's running out of energy after 2 swipes that means our AOE damage numbers are crap, not the damage the ability itself produces. Imo we need better regen - or possibly a tweak to OOC with dramatically increased chances to proc on swipes.
    That screams of quick fix to me.

    Also, think of the aggro...
    having 2x damage swipes without an energy fix would be essentially 4 swipes. however, I do agree that they should increase the proc chance of OOC for swipe, because its gimp as hell atm

  6. #6
    The only fights where the Swipe buff will be affected is Halfus and Maloriak. All other fights with aoe elements are more ranged aoe, and not melee, like Cho'gall and Magmaw.

    The aoe buff is nice, but we will just continue to fall further down the line (if that's even possible) as other classes get usable buffs and feral's get nothing.

  7. #7
    Fluffy Kitten Cambria's Avatar
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    It depends on what you consider competitive. Can they keep up with the average dps of the raid on the normal non gimmicky fight which suck for all melee, yes, easily. If you want to be above the average dps, they aren't for you.

    But they are definitely competitive.

  8. #8
    Dreadlord
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    i too have the fluctuating dps moments, from wipe to wipe too sometimes its really different... all these new cata raids tho seem way more range friendly than melee
    ........THE WRITING'S ON THE WALL !!!!!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by invader View Post
    i too have the fluctuating dps moments, from wipe to wipe too sometimes its really different... all these new cata raids tho seem way more range friendly than melee
    You sort of hit on two points.

    First of all, especially before all the heroic tweaks, this raid content tends to favor ranged or melee without positional requirements (so yes, feral druids probably suffer the most). In terms of AoE or multi-target fights, casters/ranged will have the advantage in most cases.

    The second part you hit on indirectly was that your DPS fluctuated noticeably between attempts. A reason for this is that meters don't matter until the boss is dead (if they even matter much at all, but you know what I mean), and that you could wipe at the end of a Berserk with all trinkets proc'd or wipe 2 seconds before Berserk comes off cooldown or any variation you can think of... wipe DPS doesn't indicate much. Another reason is how kitties gear nowadays... they don't prioritize hit and expertise, which will give you more consistent DPS (while most classes prioritize hit and/or expertise). Combine these two effects and you'll have varying DPS in comparison to yourself on previous attempts or other classes in general.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2011-04-19 at 04:57 PM.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  10. #10
    I think if you are a good player, you will be decent enough to continue playing feral. I mean granted, target switching on heroic omni is a pain and definitely lowers the dps, the painful aoe is bad but being fixed, and as far as single target fights go, you should be raping. I do not have a lot of experience in heroics (Mag Halfus and Chim) but for the most part I am still competing with rogues who outgear me (:

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    It depends on what you consider competitive.
    Competitive means .. to be able to compete in order to surpass others. That was the essence of my simple question.
    so, no. I disagree with your notion that we can.

    ---------- Post added 2011-04-19 at 07:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Avenn View Post
    I am still competing with rogues who outgear me (:
    Rogues are not an issue - they have theirs too of their own.
    It's everything else that out damages me - bar the odd day when the stars are aligned and all procs .

    I consider myself a good player consistently topping damage meters on heroic modes in the previous expansion.
    Note that the cat spec was then marginally more demanding to play.

    Although granted, if I camp a single target I can out damage anything - but sadly that means I don't do my job as ALL encounters do not allow for that except maybe for chimaeron. And even then I get gimped having to spend ages front nuking him ...

  12. #12
    Fluffy Kitten Cambria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tareum View Post
    Competitive means .. to be able to compete in order to surpass others. That was the essence of my simple question.
    so, no. I disagree with your notion that we can.
    You may want to start looking at top guilds logs because you are very mistaken. Druids can keep up with the majority of dps. If you want to base your class off being able to top meters on all fights you are playing the wrong game. Every single encounter has a class that will do better than others, there is no perfect balance in this game, but it's balanced enough that most dps, including feral druids, can keep up with the average and pass others based off skill.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    If you want to base your class off being able to top meters on all fights you are playing the wrong game.
    No dude. I have never said or even implied I want a class able to top meters on all fights. It's not either about whether I love my cat enough to stick with mine .. or any other consideration.
    My question is simple. And obviously it implies having the skills and gear to tackle hard modes.

    I wonder whether other cats think we are equipped to mount a fair challenge to other classes in raid hard modes environments.
    The same as locks, mages, moonkins ... can compete with each other, each fairly equipped with arsenals of abilities that work.
    I ask Nothing more.

    Like I said above, I find that sometimes I can (essentially on static / no target switching fights). But in most cases I can't - as even on static fights my damage falls behind eventually.

    Ofc I accept that some encounters are more casters biased with AOE phases in general, or nukes out of melee reach, or due to intense movement including avoiding a lot of bad stuff - adding in our case a positional requirement that ups the ante.
    But on instances when we cats can produce damage, are we as competitive as others?

    I'd like to know from those who think we are - and read about how they fare on Maloriak, Chogall and Omnotron. And how they can keep up with others when facing bosses.

    Thanks

  14. #14
    Yes, we have a feral druid in our raid team. People with poor performance do not get invited to raids.

  15. #15
    Fluffy Kitten Cambria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tareum View Post
    No dude. I have never said or even implied I want a class able to top meters on all fights. It's not either about whether I love my cat enough to stick with mine .. or any other consideration.
    My question is simple. And obviously it implies having the skills and gear to tackle hard modes.

    I wonder whether other cats think we are equipped to mount a fair challenge to other classes in raid hard modes environments.
    The same as locks, mages, moonkins ... can compete with each other, each fairly equipped with arsenals of abilities that work.
    I ask Nothing more.

    Like I said above, I find that sometimes I can (essentially on static / no target switching fights). But in most cases I can't - as even on static fights my damage falls behind eventually.

    Ofc I accept that some encounters are more casters biased with AOE phases in general, or nukes out of melee reach, or due to intense movement including avoiding a lot of bad stuff - adding in our case a positional requirement that ups the ante.
    But on instances when we cats can produce damage, are we as competitive as others?

    I'd like to know from those who think we are - and read about how they fare on Maloriak, Chogall and Omnotron. And how they can keep up with others when facing bosses.

    Thanks
    Thats fine, and once again, yes, feral druids are competitive. As said by many people. Like I said, read some logs from the top 100 guilds, druids are right on par with the rest of the dps besides the certain classes that just destroy on certain fights due to mechanics.

    If you or other ferals you see are falling behind on the majority of fights by a lot they are doing something wrong or it's a gear issue.

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Gecko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrrar View Post
    If you or other ferals you see are falling behind on the majority of fights by a lot they are doing something wrong or it's a gear issue.
    Or they are throwing out a tranquility to save the raid, or B-rezzing, Innervating and Re-MotWing (or bear-shift to taunt to draw a loose mob/add away). I do all of that for my raid and I'm in the top 3 for 10's and top 2 for 25's (we require more buff optimization than other classes to maintain high DPS numbers so hit them easier in 25's). Ferals have always been competitive in normal and heroic raids when it comes to DPS, the problem is finding Ferals who can DPS AND be a utility Druid since it doesn't always just take DPS to make a raid work.

  17. #17
    Fluffy Kitten Cambria's Avatar
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    That's not a dps balance issue though. I assure you top guilds look for those thing above personal dps. If you are a trial in our raid and throw an innervate on one of our healers, pop out and tranq at a nice time, or auto BR as soon as the RL says to BR that person we take them over someone with a bit better dps but doesn't do those things.

    That's not the discussion here. What everyone is saying is if you play correctly feral druids are perfectly competitive in a heroic raid environment.

  18. #18
    According to http://stateofdps.com/index.php?data...s=200&spec=dps, Feral Kitties are within about 6% of the top listed Melee DPS (that being a Fury Warrior) in 25H Raiding (not counting Halfus). All classes are "competitive" right now with the determining factor being personal skill (and assuming equivalent gear).

  19. #19
    Dreadlord
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    a couple of good kitties i know and chatted to earlier said theyre swapping about some gear with hit/exp for heavy movement/target swapping fights and are seeing consistent raid topping dps/damage
    ........THE WRITING'S ON THE WALL !!!!!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tareum View Post
    Competitive means .. to be able to compete in order to surpass others. That was the essence of my simple question.
    so, no. I disagree with your notion that we can.

    ---------- Post added 2011-04-19 at 07:02 PM ----------


    Rogues are not an issue - they have theirs too of their own.
    It's everything else that out damages me - bar the odd day when the stars are aligned and all procs .

    I consider myself a good player consistently topping damage meters on heroic modes in the previous expansion.
    Note that the cat spec was then marginally more demanding to play.

    Although granted, if I camp a single target I can out damage anything - but sadly that means I don't do my job as ALL encounters do not allow for that except maybe for chimaeron. And even then I get gimped having to spend ages front nuking him ...
    It drives me absolutely crazy that ferals have it in their head (or raid leader) that you should be doing ANY front nuking at all on heroic Chim. Its so retarded its not even funny. Have the tank turn the boss and everyone profits. Stop being baddies!

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