1. #1
    Grunt
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    Healing H. Nef 25, Help -- P2?

    We just started working on H. Nef 25 and have been just pushing him into P2 to get work in on P2 and explosive cinders since we think that is the hardest part of this encounter...

    I'm currently discipline (non AA, have the SOS tank healing build) and even though I have pretty much 100% mana going into P2, I flounder when it comes to healing my pillar. My healing partner is a holy paladin. I was just curious if anyone could lend some tips? I also have a holy spec I play as my main spec in our raids...just went discipline because I hear PWB is vital for the fight.

    Here is my armory:

    And logs from last night:
    worldoflogs[dot]com/reports/d9gnxv2jw2efavr1/

    us[dot]battle[dot]net/wow/en/character/uther/allele/

    Any tips would be much appreciated.
    cant post links yet so added in [dot] format :<

  2. #2
    could you be a bit more specific in what the issue is? are you OOMing? are people dying? "i flounder" is a bit vague, in my opinion.

    edit: links
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/d9gnxv2jw2efavr1/
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../allele/simple
    Last edited by nzall; 2011-04-21 at 02:31 PM.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  3. #3
    I just quickly scoped through a few 3m+ attempts and on each and every one of them you had Blast Nova(s) go through.

    Kick your interrupters in the nuts.

    Other than that, you're gonna be close to oom at the end of p2 - just get mana regens (Mana Tides, Hymn of Hope etc) going as soon as you're bunched up.

  4. #4
    Barrier isn't vital imo, it just makes it less likely that people die to crackles etc.

    Make sure people on your pillar are put in the same group for POH. If people get low, shield or penance them. If people get cinders, tell them not to jump into the lava immediately. The debuff takes 8 seconds to detonate which is more than enough time to jump out into the lava and swim away. Jumping in immediately only prolongs the time spent in the lava unnecessarily. I usually wait 2-3 seconds before jumping in. If you get low, use desperate prayer for a fast recovery.

    Of course it really does depend on how much HPS your Holy Paladin is putting out.
    Last edited by Cephius; 2011-04-21 at 02:41 PM.

  5. #5
    i checked deeper. the blast nova's went mostly off because her platform died. if you check the amount of ticks per attempt, its 688 ticks for 16 attempts. that's 43 on average per attempt. if we assume that there are 16 people on the other platforms, that's 2.5 ticks per player. i'd say that's enough to kill the average player combined with shadowflame barrages.

    what i notice is that many deaths at the start occur due to the debuff in phase 2. people get the debuff, jump in the lava, take constant damage and also get hit by a shadowflame barrage. i suggest you throw a PW:S on those people right before they jump in.

    the holy paladin was quite variable in his healing. sometimes he topped her, other times she was far above the pala.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans Yilar's Avatar
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    I'm confused, do you not use heroism in p2 on in 25m heroic? I know we use heroism in p2 in 10m heroic simply to reduce the amount of time spent healing it. P3 is relative easy compared to p2 in terms of healing. Rotate cooldowns for crackles and keep the tanks alive, pretty simple...

  7. #7
    Using a holy paladin + disc priest is the set up we use for 2 of the 3 platforms. The first set of cinders are the toughest because those people will have the highest stacks of magma. Top everyone off and then do whatever you can to keep the cinder people alive. Request to your raid leader to group your platform up for easy PoH top offs.

    We use Bloodlust to get through the pillar phase quickly. P3 is long, but if you are pushing 2 crackles before the pillars phase, the enrage won't be an issue. Lastly dump everything you have into P2 to keep people alive, hold nothing back. Healing P3 is quite easy.

  8. #8
    Yeah, in general healers should be at full mana at the end of p1, and will be quite close to oom at the end of p2, depending on how lucky your platform is with Cinders.

    The start of p2 where everyone has just emerged from the lava can be the hardest time, have ppl pop cd's. Boomkin tranqs, resto tranqs, HS's Barkskins etc etc. Once the platforms are stabilized it should become manageable. And yes, we pop heroism at the start of p2 aswell.

    Try and hold off potting in p1 or p2, as p3 gives you excellent time between electrocutes for a conc pot. Also make sure all druids are keeping their innervates on cd, ferals / boomkins especially, and ideally a MTT before p2 aswell, so everyone can get another one at the start of p3 when they are low on mana after platforms.

  9. #9
    High Overlord Mikayo's Avatar
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    I heal a platform as disc with a holy paladin myself and healing P2 Nef is the hardest thing I've done in the game so far.
    You need to go into the phase with full mana and you will be oom coming out of the phase.

    I don't have barrier up for P2 because I use it on the electrocute right before P2 and the first electrocute coming out of P2.
    However, I do save PI and fiend - I use PI at the very beginning to shield everyone and fiend shortly thereafter.
    We lust in the very beginning of P2.
    5 of the 8 people on my platform are in the same group for PoH and my paladin beacons me. (myself, holy paladin, and the tank are not in the poh group)
    I have the Magma debuff added on grid so I can politely scream at fat people who can't get out of lava with less than 6 stacks.
    I also have the cinders debuff added (I don't even know why I'm putting this in here, but I am)
    I keep PoM on CD, and shields on anyone without a WS debuff. I try to save penance for cinders but keep it on cd for the most part.
    I pain sup if someone has high magma stacks with cinders (like 10+ stacks)
    I try to intelligently flash and binding heal when necessary. Binding heal will be better than flash heal like, 95% of the time. (I could be wrong)
    I have a kitty on my platform that will tranquility if I or my paladin get cinders 3x OR we get them at the same time. (it's important that your kitties, shadowpriests, dps shamans know when to use their healing abilities during this phase)
    I picked up Focused Will specifically for this phase to help with my survivability. Everyone in our raid was encouraged to pickup talents that reduce damage taken / increase healing received if possible.
    I have done the fight with and without AA/Atonement - if you have it, it can be handy once you get everyone topped off (it was also nice because my platform used to have the slowest DPS) but it is not necessary and I did not notice a big difference without it.
    I fiend (if it's up) and hymn of hope as soon as Nef lands (P3 starts) as long as he's above 72-73%, otherwise I wait until after my barrier's down and people are healed to acceptable levels.

    The rest of the fight is cake as long as your add tank stays alive.
    ________________________________________
    Disclaimer: This is just what I do. I'm not perfect.
    Last edited by Mikayo; 2011-04-21 at 04:55 PM.
    Kyx | Odyssey of Mug'thol

  10. #10
    My guild doesn't lust in P2. /shrug But we don't push an electrocute in that phase either. We save lust for P3 once the first round of MCs is done with.

    Random thoughts (I haven't dug through your logs yet so you're probably doing some of this):
    - Barrier is your friend. I tend to use mine when I need to pot or hymn, so that the damage isn't so bad for my healing partner.
    - Bubble spam is good at the start. Throw up Inner Will and mash that key while waiting for the lava and for the first bit of standing on the platform. Once people get in the 80-100% health range, back off the bubbles a bit if you're worried about mana. They're still awesome to toss out when anyone dips below 60k health or if they get cinders.
    - Hybrids can toss out heals when things get icky. Shamans can drop healing rain, druids can tranq. If both healers have cinders(or if the initial cinders include a healer), it's good for caster hybrids to give some direct heals to people as well.
    - Having your raid leader put everyone on your platform into the same group is good for PoH. It's a pretty mana-efficient way to maintain health when people are high.
    - Everyone in your raid should have a personal cooldown they can use during cinders. Shield wall, barkskin, dispersion, etc. If the class doesn't really have a personal damage reduction cooldown, then they need to get the trinket from Tol Barad. Super awesome people get the Tol Barad resistance trinket even if they have a damage reduction CD of their own. It makes a huge difference. The DPS loss from using a stam/resist trinket is fine. Afterall, you can't dps if you die with cinders.

  11. #11
    Grunt
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    Thanks for the responses guys, I’ll respond to the questions I see:

    Nzall:

    I think my most pressing issue was mana when things were being dragged out too long. There was one attempt where we finally had the dps knock out a guy but at the end of it I had maybe 5% mana left? Another few attempts I just couldn’t keep up with the healing.

    Before p2 starts I have inner will up and I preshield everyone on my pillar before the lava appears. When we get up there I keep POH spam with POM bouncing going since our 5 pillar people are in our group, the other 2 our paladin said he could watch (after we realized the two locks weren’t getting much heals)

    I think I was curious if my spell rotation was on par. Preshielding/POH/POM (I got to remember to penance more for that set piece)

    Yilar:
    We were really kind of doing testing on P2. (1st night of real attempts on it) We would kill Onyxia without crackles going out to see how we would fare with cinder practice. We weren’t blowing heroism, but I will definitely bring it up to the guild to burn it with that phase even if it is just practicing (it resets when we die anyways!). Our gm is asking everyone to do some research to see how we can better ourselves.

    Gertude:
    Yeah, I think I got explosive cinders twice before the lava submerge… the first time I auto blew PS on myself. I managed to make it back to the platform but my stacks were super high and I died (I swam too far, derpderp)
    2nd time I got it I lived and was able to continue healing fine. I think we need to utilize more personal cooldowns for that initial phase. :<

    Mikayo:

    Thank you for your response, it was really helpful! I’ll try to PI myself before and utilize the shadowfiend early. I think I freaked out so much when I saw all the damage I just went into prayer of healing mode that I forgot binding.

    Liliyah:
    I’m definitely going to get that trinket before our next raid, Sunday. Just curious is it okay to blow a PWB if we need them for crackles? Will it be up in time if you blow it in P2?

    Oh and just adding in what is currently on my platform for help:

    Holy Pally
    Disc Priest (ME! I can also go into my ms holy if people believe it might be easier?_
    Tank Pally
    Frost DK
    2 Warlocks
    Tank Druid

    (umm I think the last was a druid but my memory is failing me now)
    Oh and I do wear 4 pc but I think I logged without it on… hope this helps!

  12. #12
    If you use barrier in P2, it'll be up for some of the crackles in P3. It might not be up in time for the first one(depending on when exactly you use the barrier), but it should be up in time for you to manage to barrier 2 crackles during P3.
    My guild runs two disc priests, and we can't barrier every one. We both get two in P3, but that still leaves 3 crackles that we don't have a cooldown for. Since you have a prot paladin, DG can be used in place of barrier if your CD isn't up.

  13. #13

    nefa25hc p2

    im not going oom at p2. when phase change is coming, keep sure u'll have full mana and save PI for p2. tell ur rl to set ur platform grp to same group and spam poh. i heal it everytimes with holy pala, so u just spam poh and pala single heals who need to go lava. and whe p2 ends i have about 25% mana + potion/fiend/hymn is still available.

    link to my priest : http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...samppae/simple
    Once the nerfbat has tasted tears, it dosen´t fear, it cannot fear

  14. #14
    I am in a 10man guild, and I understand 10 and 25 are different. The way we do it is lust instantly in p1, we have the Ony tank tanking all the adds as well because when p2 starts, they all die grouped up. (By doing this we get a second lust at about 7%) So we burst down Ony and get right into p2.
    Make sure most of the people you are assigned to heal are in the same groups, that way Prayer of Healing and Divine Aegis will stabilize people out a lot easier. Using PW:B right as everyone gets on the platform isn't a bad idea seeing as everyone will have the magma debuff. Keep PoM on CD for that phase and bubble/flash/binding heal people that really need it. Keep in mind that is the hardest healing portion of the fight, so don't worry about mana. After p2 ends you should be able to pop fiend and hymn of hope.
    Another trick that helps me is that I use the other mana potions. I believe they're called potion of concentration? But they restore 22,000 mana instead of the normal 10k. You should be able to use one right after a crackle after stabilizing people's health.

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Yilar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afflictid View Post
    I am in a 10man guild, and I understand 10 and 25 are different. The way we do it is lust instantly in p1, we have the Ony tank tanking all the adds as well because when p2 starts, they all die grouped up. (By doing this we get a second lust at about 7%) So we burst down Ony and get right into p2.
    Make sure most of the people you are assigned to heal are in the same groups, that way Prayer of Healing and Divine Aegis will stabilize people out a lot easier. Using PW:B right as everyone gets on the platform isn't a bad idea seeing as everyone will have the magma debuff. Keep PoM on CD for that phase and bubble/flash/binding heal people that really need it. Keep in mind that is the hardest healing portion of the fight, so don't worry about mana. After p2 ends you should be able to pop fiend and hymn of hope.
    Another trick that helps me is that I use the other mana potions. I believe they're called potion of concentration? But they restore 22,000 mana instead of the normal 10k. You should be able to use one right after a crackle after stabilizing people's health.
    The adds die when the lava comes even when they have energy? We just kite the adds with stun+frost ring and when they die the dps will finish off onyxia a few seconds later. Get onto pillars and pop heroism and a minute (+/- 10secs) later we enter p3 and then it's a just a matter of not fucking up for 6-7mins. P3 is by far the "easiest phase" in this encounter as you could in theory keep going forever.

    Btw how do you get 2 heroisms when the debuff is 10minutes and the enrage timer is 10minutes?
    Last edited by Yilar; 2011-04-23 at 10:52 PM.

  16. #16
    Enrage timer is probably longer then 10 minutes. I can guarantee we get two off though. Not with much left on the boss, but we get two off. But yes, the adds die when the lava starts rising. (Technically it is when the platform starts dropping, but I digress XD)

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Logbc's Avatar
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    Enrage is 10 minutes from when Nef lands. This means that the fight length is generally around 10:30 if you take it right to the end. I know this because our first kill was 13 seconds AFTER enrage >.<

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  18. #18
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    Well you should flash and bind heal without hesitation. You should enter Full mana in P2 and use the fiend on the Prototype. You can skip using the barrier in P1; it's not really needed. Use it asap as you get on the pillar so you can top everyone.

    I'm entering P2 with 5xEvangelism, PI ready and full mana and it's really easy; also switch to Inner will. Since maybe you lack experience with this fight, and maybe it's hard to predict the damage, my advice is to just use Flash heal/Binding heal on lower HP targets (< 50%). Entering OOM in P3 should be OK; mana tide + hymn of hope + potion of concentration if needed; you will also have your shadowfiend for a 2nd use at some point.

    I saw on the logs you are not shielding enough in P2 (you just pre-shielded i think) and that you are using Divine Hymn in P2. Don't use it anymore. Ask a druid, or ask the hybrids to do some off heals. Just focus on getting everyone on 80% HP by spamming fast heals if needed. Then you just keep shielding, if everyone has shields you can drop some pohs for DA on your full group, you can smite + archangel even.


    You can see here how went P3 for me (the other healer on the pillar took Explosive Cinders twice so I had to use Flash and Binding A LOT):
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jf...=13901&e=14014

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