Hardmode Restrictions Lifted

[Dameondark]

Just wondering what you guys thougth about the idea of not requiring completion of the normal mode raids to enter the heroic versions. A lot of hardcores who say that the game is easy may get more enjoyment out of it if they the option to skip regular raid bosses and turn them to heroic. The heroic versions are definitely harder but the base mechanics are the same so doing it in regular is def a help for heroic versions. I kind of like the model of first person shooters where you don't have to do the content in normal mode to unlock god mode. I understand that heroics are tuned for mostly tier 11 gear but maybe the elite of the elite would try to do it blues with the available rep gear.

[Herecius]

When it was done in Ulduar, nearly no guilds took advantage of the fact that they could activate hardmodes from the get go. And either way, the heroic modes are tuned assuming you have gear from the normal modes; so what would change?

Would lifting them still assume you had the gear? In which case, why lift them? You have to go get the gear from normal mode anyways. Would lifting them mean that they're still harder, but tuned to be possible with the same gear as normal modes? That means they'll become much easier to brute force the mechanics, which is no fun at all.

[eternalwhitemoon]

Eh, I'm ambivalent.

You only have to do it once on Normal, it's not like you HAVE to farm the gear from normal to do Heroic (from a pure "what the game will let you do" standpoint).

[Zulandia]

I completely agree with Herecius (being a guild who full cleared up to 1 light on 25) however the only benefit I could see this actually bringing is all the kids in their 1/12 regular guilds could actually try and fail miserably at a hardmode and then maybe they would shut up with the "This game is too easy" shit.

[theredviola]

I rather liked the Ulduar approach to "hard modes." None of this "having to kill the end boss" business. If you were good enough to activate the hard modes (in most cases...) or so chose to at your own risk/gear level; if you managed to kill the boss the reward was that much more.

Ofc, Ulduar was an example of a great raid imo.

I completely agree with Herecius (being a guild who full cleared up to 1 light on 25) however the only benefit I could see this actually bringing is all the kids in their 1/12 regular guilds could actually try and fail miserably at a hardmode and then maybe they would shut up with the "This game is too easy" shit.

HAHAHA! Yes, I love this reasoning.

[Anjerith]

I think what you would see is most Guilds running normals for gearing purposes anyway, so the ability to jump right into heroics would be marginal aside from the masochists that would enjoy being mercilessly beat down, not due to their own lack of skill, but simply because they want to be seen as the type that do heroic modes.

[Coldkil]

Being hardmode is a restriction itself. If you don't have the gear to do it, you won't do it anyway.

The only reason i can see is semibad guilds who manage to clear regularly like 7-8/12, and they want to farm halfus HM for heroic tokens. Lifting the lock will make them go for Halfus HM while they cannot even manage to do Cho'gall normal, and i think it's a bad idea.

[Asics]

You didn't have to clear reg Ruby Sanctum to do HM. But OT, if the guild is good enough to speed into heroics within the first couple weeks of a new raid tier then they will have no problem one shotting every regular mode boss on their way. 1 week isn't going to make or break any Paragon-like guild from a world/server first especially when that restriction is on everyone.

However I wouldn't care less if it were kept the same or not. Just my two pennies.

[Deleted]

Herecius, what's your avatar from? It looks so familar but I can't quite put my finger on it...

[Inexxa]

I'm guessing Hamtaro :P

[Atrea]

Eh, I'm ambivalent.

You only have to do it once on Normal, it's not like you HAVE to farm the gear from normal to do Heroic (from a pure "what the game will let you do" standpoint).

This isn't strictly true.

You have to defeat the last boss in a raid instance to do it on Heroic mode.
What this means, is that you may spend weeks (months?) killing the normal mode bosses until you're sufficiently geared to defeat the final boss.
So, it's actually the exact opposite of what you said. You DO have to farm the gear from normal to do Heroic, essentially.

It's not quite as simple as walking into a raid, killing a boss once on regular mode, and then going to Heroic next week.

[Herrenos]

This isn't strictly true.

You have to defeat the last boss in a raid instance to do it on Heroic mode.
What this means, is that you may spend weeks (months?) killing the normal mode bosses until you're sufficiently geared to defeat the final boss.
So, it's actually the exact opposite of what you said. You DO have to farm the gear from normal to do Heroic, essentially.

It's not quite as simple as walking into a raid, killing a boss once on regular mode, and then going to Heroic next week.

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about this one. I sort of like the idea of being able to try Heroic Magmaw before normal Nef is down; on the other hand that sort of jacks up progression.

[iorcedurmother]

Just wondering what you guys thougth about the idea of not requiring completion of the normal mode raids to enter the heroic versions. A lot of hardcores who say that the game is easy may get more enjoyment out of it if they the option to skip regular raid bosses and turn them to heroic. The heroic versions are definitely harder but the base mechanics are the same so doing it in regular is def a help for heroic versions. I kind of like the model of first person shooters where you don't have to do the content in normal mode to unlock god mode. I understand that heroics are tuned for mostly tier 11 gear but maybe the elite of the elite would try to do it blues with the available rep gear.

There are a lot of fps that you have to beat the game to play in the hardest mode.

[coldbear]

Hardmode should be current top-end raids.

Easymode should be the raid that was previously patched in, or if not - it should be Heroics.

You should have to be fully blue'd out in Heroics with a few key epics for your spec from drops and badge gear in order to even have a chance at entry-level raiding.

Epics should not be commonplace, ordinary or easily available.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/epic

Adjective
epic (comparative more epic, superlative most epic)
Of, or relating to, an epic.
Beowulf is an epic poem.
Momentously heroic
The epic defense was rewarded with the highest military decorations
(colloquial) Extending beyond the usual or ordinary; extraordinary, momentous, great.
The after-prom party was epic.
China's epic traffic jam "vanished", AFP news story, Wednesday August 25, 2010

[iorcedurmother]

and OT, the only thing this would change is for the gunship type heroics in raids. It would just allow people who do regulars to have one or two extra bosses to get easy heroic gear from.

Honestly I don't really care either way, but I like the way they have it now that you have to complete the raid before you can start on heroic modes.

---------- Post added 2011-04-22 at 04:24 PM ----------

Hardmode should be current top-end raids.

Easymode should be the raid that was previously patched in, or if not - it should be Heroics.

You should have to be fully blue'd out in Heroics with a few key epics for your spec from drops and badge gear in order to even have a chance at entry-level raiding.

Epics should not be commonplace, ordinary or easily available.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/epic

you linked us to a definition that in no way can be transferred over to gear in WoW.

Are you suggesting epic gear should be an extended narrative poem?
Or that epic gear should be a series of events considered appropriate to an extended narrative poem?

Oh I guess the adjective part works, my B.
Still though, the example sentence "The after-prom party was epic" sort of takes away from whatever goal you were trying to accomplish by linking that.

[ralphie]

Hardmode should be current top-end raids.

Easymode should be the raid that was previously patched in, or if not - it should be Heroics.

You should have to be fully blue'd out in Heroics with a few key epics for your spec from drops and badge gear in order to even have a chance at entry-level raiding.

Epics should not be commonplace, ordinary or easily available.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/epic

If wiki says so, then it must be true.

[beingmused]

First of all: why would this be any better? I'm not sure why having to finish a raid on normal before doing it on heroic is a bad thing.

Secondly: If there are fights on heroic that are easier than the final boss on normal (certainly the case quite a bit in ICC, arguably true with Halfus this tier), then that means guilds would get 372 gear to help them defeat a normal mode boss, which is lame.

[Herecius]

Hardmode should be current top-end raids.

Easymode should be the raid that was previously patched in, or if not - it should be Heroics.

You should have to be fully blue'd out in Heroics with a few key epics for your spec from drops and badge gear in order to even have a chance at entry-level raiding.

Epics should not be commonplace, ordinary or easily available.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/epic

This isn't a thread about epics and the ease or difficulty of their availability, let's please avoid turning it into one. The dragons down that road are far more fearsome than the ones sitting beneath Cho'gall.

[Dannz]

the reason why people cleared normal mode first in ulduar, rather then hardmode from the get-go, was cause there was still a race to kill YS first... for some reason :3

[Vongimi]

It is weird that it doesnt allow you to do it... but I dont see any difference it would make if it DID allow you to do it. Guilds will beat it on normal first anyways. The only difference I can see is some guild leaders of super casual guilds might try and grind a heroic boss before they are ready, and burnout the guild members.