Guild Wars 2: The One Thread

[Deleted]

Is it me or there's suddenly a lot of asura stuff coming out? I do hope this means what I think it does!!

[Mif]

Is it me or there's suddenly a lot of asura stuff coming out? I do hope this means what I think it does!!

It's actually a trend I've noticed in a lot of the items on GW2DB. There is a lot more Asura stuff than Sylvari stuff.

[Deleted]

Is it me or there's suddenly a lot of asura stuff coming out? I do hope this means what I think it does!!

They're just giving the asura fans something too, still think we wount see the asura´s in the beta.

[Deleted]

They can't troll, and they can't grief. The moment they start participating, the content scales up. If they stop participating, it will just scale back down. ANet is extremely skilled at preventing griefing, as well, considering they constantly test for potential ways to grief everything, literally everything, that they put in.

People trying to troll/grief are more likely to get themselves killed than ruin an EDE.

You don't get the point do you ? There's a reason instanced gaming is so successful, here's an simple exemple :
I'm hanging around with 6 of my friends and were are starting a (e)DE. Lets say it's a simple patchwerk boss kill, there's 7 people participating the boss scales to say 500k hp, has 2 breath skills that hit for say 5k damage. Everything is going fine, the boss is a bit hard but managable and our little grp of 7 is having fun.
Now comes in a random guy just passing trough. the content sees there's 8 guys, so the boss scales up to say 555k hp and hits dor 5.5k hp, harder but still manageble, at very least for the time it take for that random dude to get out of the are and for the boss to scale down to 7. Annoying ? definitively, but not unmanagable.
Now commes a grp of say 3 trolls that have nothing better to do with their life than to make it miserable for everyone around them too. Intended on grieffing us they get into the (e)DE making it scale up but not contributing at all (or maybe a white hit per minute to get "tagged" or something).
So now the (e)DE scales up to 10 people, say the boss goes up to 1Mhp and hits for 8k damage and gets an extra skill, even if there is only 7 guys participating and 4 asses just /dancing around. Big surprise we get all killed since the event was never intended to be done with only 70% participation

Sure the trolls will eventually get killed too but who cares, by the time they get killed the original grp, the ones that were actually having fun with the content have been also wiped out and/or the event failed due to lack of participatioin from a significant part of the people around the (e)DE.

Once you consider not only trolls but simply players that have little clue on whatever is going around you end up with either:
- DE completely dumbt down so that they can be completed with at least a few trolls and/or heavily unskilled players: if 7 people can do an event scaled up to 10, just how hard can it be when it's 7people in a scaled to 7 event ? anweser : not very much
- or pretty much every one praying that they don't get their (e)DE ganked .
- Last option would be to have event dinamically scale up/down not due to players in the area but due to each player participation... which is morronic in the extreme.
Considering how BWE have been so far i'm guessing it'll be the first case scenario.

[DrakeWurrum]

Now comes in a random guy just passing trough.

And he doesn't count towards the boss unless he meets qualification for contributing. End of simulation.

[Deleted]

please read the whole post before posting

[edit] <sight> fine, keep your blinders if you so wish. Hopefully someone else in the thread will take the 20s needed to read a post...

[DrakeWurrum]

please read the whole post before posting

Don't need to, that specific quoted line specifically shows me that you don't understand how contribution works and how they've worked to prevent exactly what you're describing.

[Fencers]

Pretty positive that is not how an elite DE works.

[Squirrelbanes]

please read the whole post before posting

Simply doesn't work like that though...
1 white hit a minute to make u contribute? Just not happening.

Hypothetical doomsaying to the greatest extent tbh.

[Deleted]

Whether the contribution tag limit at 1 hit/minute, 10hits/minute or whatever random number it's set at it's the same basic problem:
There is no way to make an event both challenging and accommodate for a significant part of the group doing the bare minimum required to be tagged, whether due to trolling or simple noobness.

[DrakeWurrum]

Whether the contribution tag limit at 1 hit/minute, 10hits/minute or whatever random number it's set at it's the same basic problem:
There is no way to make an event both challenging and accommodate for a significant part of the group doing the bare minimum required to be tagged, whether due to trolling or simple noobness.

Sorry, but it's possible, and it's being done. Just because it's never been done before doesn't mean it can't be done - other devs just say "it can't be done" and don't even try, so how do you know that it can't?

[Deleted]

Apparently you don't realize that both requirement are mutually exclusive, do you ?

[Fencers]

Accounting for scale isn't really a big issue. Other games have done that in open world encounters. A roadblock to Ayashi's argument is the metrics are hidden from players in GW2. CL, boss hp and CFT are rather cryptic at the moment. Very difficult to figure out what is the "minimum effort" to jack up a DE difficulty. If you did, Anet can literally change one number out of thousands and dash your efforts as well.

Not to mention the biggest roadblock of them all; design. Many elite DEs are centered around multiple objectives or an overarching objective that isn't directly tied to just stabbing a dragon's feet once a min/hour.

It is possible to game the DEs, I cheated several in fact. However DEs and elite DEs do not scale as Ayashi assumes here.

[Deleted]

Fine if you don't like "minimum effort" then go for "just dinged bronze award" instead...

[Morogoth]

D3 is a catastrophe, save me GW2

ohmahgerd

[Maarius]

@griefing:

A few things need to be said about the event system here. One of the primary goals when we design each and every event is ensuring that the event is not griefable. The entire point of the event system is that players work together to succeed at events, therefore the only way to manipulate the system in a negative way would be to cause an event to fail.

“Events never encourage player conflict, and never have fail conditions that can be actively triggered by players.”

Events never encourage player conflict, and never have fail conditions that can be actively triggered by players. For example, you won’t see any events that require players to be “stealthy” by say, sneaking by some sleeping guards. A player in this situation could quite easily choose to wake the guards up and ruin the fun for everyone. In the case where a player or group of players have figured out how to cause an event to fail, we have been very careful to not make any one particular event more desirable than another.

In the end, stopping griefing is one of our highest priorities. Through our playtesting we’ve already found a few ways in which some of our events could be griefed, and in every case we’ve made changes to stop it. At this point we think we’ve addressed most of these issues, but we’ll continue to be vigilant as we develop the game and will of course take whatever measures are needed to stop griefing after the game is released.

http://www.arena.net/blog/eric-flann...ions#more-2144

nothing more to add, whether this works or not we will see in the final product. Let me say: I never had any problem with griefers during the dozen hours in the last two BWE. I personally was happy everytime when other players showed up.

The pursuit of fun in content led us to make many gameplay decisions, including:Everyone who helps kill a creature gets experience and loot, so you’re not competing with other players; everyone gets rewarded for events with karma they can spend to buy rewards they want, rather than get a random roll of stuff they might not want; content scales in difficulty, so if more people show up, there is still stuff for you to do; everyone is able to revive one another, so you view other players as assets that can help you achieve your goals, rather than people who might get in your way; everyone can harvest resource nodes and get the rewards in the world together, rather than racing other people to them who might steal it from you.

it was actually quite useful to see other players come along. They (most of the time) revive you, block projectiles with their bodies (and therefore can be used as shields), create combofields which increase the combat-effectiveness, they let more mobs spawn (because of participating) so more loot for everyone, higher participation even unlocks more interesting attacks from champion-mobs, and so on...

so fact is: I experienced other players as a good thing. Not one moment when I thought of griefing. If you can't extract advantages from such situations then you are clearly doing something wrong. Wait, you can't even do something wrong, it happens anyway. Players will revive you and get xp for it, whether you want it or not. Players will create combofields for their own attacks, whether you ask them to or not. Players will block projectiles with their bodies, you can't push them out of the way.

[DrakeWurrum]

Fully agree with what Maarius said. They need to improve the scaling of events, and what gets you how high of a participation, but on the whole I had a really good experience and was happy to see more players, not less.

[Malthurius]

Fine if you don't like "minimum effort" then go for "just dinged bronze award" instead...

The boss scales back down if the player leaves after acquiring that goal, and that goal has poor rewards...

[Maarius]

The boss scales back down if the player leaves after acquiring that goal, and that goal has poor rewards...

to find some negative here: getting gold-medal was way too easy in BWE, but I think they are working on this. Was mentioned several times in the beta-forums.

[Malthurius]

to find some negative here: getting gold-medal was way too easy in BWE, but I think they are working on this. Was mentioned several times in the beta-forums.

Yeah, I noticed this, but I'm assuming that that isn't how it will be post launch.

I could get gold by arriving for that last 20 seconds of the event and get gold. I only got bronze if I was extremely late, and I didn't think silver existed for a while.