Guild Wars 2: The One Thread

[Maarius]

On their manifesto (Specifically at 1:25-ish) [...] That's great, we don't want players to grind in guild wars 2, nobody enjoys that, nobody finds it fun" And yet........... Grinding on this MMO is present, just like in every other MMO.

Wanna level up professions? grind the mats, wanna level up? grind the mobs (And that's essentially what you do. Take a quest, remove any context whatsoever, and make it into a list of things to kill, and it stops being a mission, and becomes, a grind)

This game has grinding. [...] the game still has grind involved, both for leveling, for crafting stuff, for making legendaries, for obtaining cultural sets, and for just about everything else.

The way I got the Manifesto: no grinding to get to the fun stuff. You'll experience all of the fun stuff long befor you start the optional grind in this game.

The grind you describe is just an excuse for the powerlevel-people. I certainly don't have the feeling to grind when leveling up, just the opposite actually. Even a while before I've seen every event (which do have nice contexts, little non generic stories... if you take the time to experience those - it's really your choice) I'm at a level where I could go to other zones. The scaling-back makes it possible to experience a zone further without oneshotting everything because I'm 5 levels too high.

Grinding mobs isn't even a good idea, since you'll get more experience if you move to new locations instead of killing the same mobs over and over again. Have you heard of bonus-xp?

Legendaries are a long-term goal and not required for anything. They don't even have better stats. People who grind for legendaries are responsible for their experience - I certainly don't powergrind those mats because I get those while playing anyway... I'm ok with getting a legendary 2 years from now, without grinding those mats.

Second point on their manifesto that was not true, is at 1:48, when Ree Soesbee says this:

"as a structure, MMOs have lost the ability to make the players feel like a hero, everybody is doing the same things you're doing, the boss you just killed respawns 10 minutes later, it doesn't care, that I'm there."

I disagree of course. The storyline of wow and of SWTOR do wonders to make you feel like a hero, with a gripping story and awesome memorable characters (Hunter and Watcher X on SWTOR are my most memorable characters, while Thrall and Muradin are my favorites in Warcraft). But I digress. The point is, in GW2, everyone is doing the same things I'm doing, and bosses I just killed respawn 10 minutes (I'm sorry, I meant to say 5 minutes) later, and it really didn't cared that I'm there.

Ohh yeah, that farmer is being attacked by bandits who are pilfering her crops, and kidnaping her moas (I think she said moas) I killed dozens of them, completed the renown heart, and she even sent me a letter saying how her life is perfect. Except I show up at her farm and its still crawling with bandits, which are still stealing the crops. My actions had no lasting impact at all. And there's other players doing what I just did mere minutes before. So that line was bullshit.

Well I't depends on how you look at it. The farmer (heart npc) will remember you, when you've filled his heart, he has new dialogue options and he will sell you stuff which wasn't available to strangers who talk to him. The npcs are very aware that they live in a hostile environment and that bandits might hit the farm again, but this is part of a living breathing world. So it is true, they remember you. If you don't believe me, go back to a filled heart and actually read what he has to say. Does it sound like talking to a stranger to you? For me it doesn't.

If you do the same things over and over again, it's just your fault. You have a choice there: do the things you find fun or go on and find new events. The big thing here: you have the choice. In games where you can do quests only once, the area where you're in loses content while yo're playing in it. The world gets emptier the longer you play. Once you're max level and have done all the quests, you've only a max. level zone and some daily quests. GW2's content gets more and more, the higher you are. Low level zones don't get trivial since you still have a chance to get level-appropriate rewards + you get scaled back so you're at the level of the zone.

---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 05:23 PM ----------

Happy New Year!!

[evokanu]

Is this a bug or have they made Zojja bald in cutscenes since i last played?

[Doozerjun]

She's missing her goggles. Looks like a bug.

[Lane]

Wanna level up professions? grind the mats, wanna level up? grind the mobs (And that's essentially what you do. Take a quest, remove any context whatsoever, and make it into a list of things to kill, and it stops being a mission, and becomes, a grind)

I thought GW2's crafting was one of the better ones until it came to making innumerable inscriptions/insignias to level it, that's what really killed it for me. If all the professions worked like Jeweling it'd be a 100% improvement, but unfortunately you have to rely on mob drops (quite a lot of them) and if you aren't the type to do zones in level order then odds are you won't have as many as you need (especially so if you're leveling more than one profession).

Mob grinding for the most part seems to be a choice though. I mean, most hearts offer about half a dozen different ways to complete it, most of which don't include killing anything at all. Plus, if you're lucky enough to have an event occurring then you'll usually finish the heart by finishing the event.

Ohh yeah, that farmer is being attacked by bandits who are pilfering her crops, and kidnaping her moas (I think she said moas) I killed dozens of them, completed the renown heart, and she even sent me a letter saying how her life is perfect. Except I show up at her farm and its still crawling with bandits, which are still stealing the crops. My actions had no lasting impact at all. And there's other players doing what I just did mere minutes before. So that line was bullshit.

Well, not that I disagree with you, but there are some events with lasting action. A good example are the centaur camps in Harathi Highlands. Yeah, you do have to defend Junction Camp every 20 minutes or so, but as long as you hold onto it none of the other camps get retaken. (Although, having said that it's kind of a shame since retaking all the camps is one of the funner event chains I've done. :P)

To use that same example about that farm with the bandits, while the woman may say she's being attacked by bandits, and that they are stealing her crops and kidnapping her cattle, in reality, the bandits are in a cave, a few dozen yards off her farm, none are in the immediate area, and none are attacking the farmers or anything like that.

That does happen sometimes, but I've seen my fair share of enemies actively being a nuisance.

This is not MY STORY, this is Traeherne's story. He more or less kidnaps all protagonism once he's introduced (and he shows up out of frikking thin air BTW, unless you play a Sylvari in which case you have SOME info about him but not much) and we are tossed aside while he hogs all the glory. /sighs it was bad enough when Tirion did it on WOTLK and Thrall did it on Cata, sadly, Traeherne is doing it at least on vanilla GW2. Here's to hoping I can at least be the protagonist of MY story on the first expansion? I can only hope.

I know I'm in the minority in this, but I'm actually tired of always being the hero, it also seems incredibly unrealistic in MMOs. (I'm the hero! Along with 500k+ other people!) I was kind of shocked that someone else besides me for once became top dog. (Or cat if you play Charr. ;P) However, having said that I found the personal stories disappointing once you get to the point of Zhaitan-related stuff. Prior to that at least depending on my choices my alts had a fairly different and racial-specific experience, but then it just becomes the exact same thing for everyone.

At least in wow with phasing, once you complete the story of a certain area, and rescue a village, IT DOES remains rescued. Stonard comes under attack by the alliance at the ending of the revamped swamp of sorrows in cataclysm, and after repelling that attack, the alliance does not mobilizes again.

I always had a love/hate feeling towards phasing. Yeah, it was cool in some respects, but in others (such as trying to group with others who haven't done the content) it became a royal pain. There were also situations of things you could only farm and/or complete during particular phases and other such nonsense. Plus, there's no going back if you enjoyed something, it's gone and done forever.

I wanna clarify that I'm not Thrashing GW2, nor saying wow is superior, despite my grievances with this game, its a DAMNED GOOD GAME, and one I can recommend with FLYING COLORS to just about anyone, but their manifesto is full of crap.

GW2 is actually really close to how I described my ideal MMO to some friends.

[Fencers]

I would say GW2 is probably the ultimate MMO for players that enjoy casual play, alts and merely trouncing about the game world.

The first Guild Wars games were fairly casual friendly. In the sequel Anet seemingly hit the sweet spot for the millions of players who enjoyed running around Booty Bay or collecting holiday presents on however many alts they desire.

It's a tailor made MMO for the largest segment of the "new" MMO audience. The people who enjoyed like Wrath of the Lich King and the like.

[Derah]

I would say GW2 is probably the ultimate MMO for players that enjoy casual play, alts and merely trouncing about the game world.

The first Guild Wars games were fairly casual friendly. In the sequel Anet seemingly hit the sweet spot for the millions of players who enjoyed running around Booty Bay or collecting holiday presents on however many alts they desire.

It's a tailor made MMO for the largest segment of the "new" MMO audience. The people who enjoyed like Wrath of the Lich King and the like.

Not gonna argue this one, the game IS quite newbie-friendly (ya know, once you get to know what you're supposed to do, but every game has to have a learning curve). Just in case it wasn't clear last time I said it, I in no way think this is a bad game, ohhh no no no no no no, I love it, its quite awesome despite its flaws, I just feel their manifesto is just a publicity stunt, and the game doesn't really delivers on what the manifesto said it would. Putting that asides, the things I love about GW2 far outweight the things I hate about it.

I guess the best part of the game is the lack of monthly fees, along with the "no-tag" mobs, this really RUINS every other MMO. In wow, ever since they added Cross-realm Zones, leveling is a PAIN IN THE ASS, because there are too many players, and not enough mobs to meet the demand. This can also be the case in every MMO where once another player tags the mob, its out of your hands. In here, there is no tagging, so you actually get happy when you see other players, rather than pissed off.

I remember there was this renown heart I was doing that involved getting into a cave to kill some skreets, I was 2 levels under the renown heart, and because of this, the mobs kept kicking my ass because I was alone. Cue 3 other players that showed up, all of them of my level, and even though we weren't in a party, we still started killing stuff together, and what was borderline-impossible, suddenly became not just possible, but fun. This is a HUGE deal for me, and I wish not just wow, but EVERY mmo would just get rid of that stupid mob-tagging mechanic. Its stupid, its obsolete, it encourages selfishness and discourages playing with other people.

Those 2 are the features I love the most, but are not the only ones. I'm gonna quickly mention the features I love about this game: Love that pvp is completely separated from PVE, that there are no "melee and Ranged" classes, since all classes can be either and perform equally well at both, that the character creation is quite complex, that you can customize the color of your armor for free at any time, really short loading screen times (this is what ended up being the last straw on SWTOR for me, its UNBEARABLE loading screen times) art style, music by Jeremy Soule (it feels like I'm playing an expansion of Skyrim, because the music is really reminiscent of that game. That man is a GENIUS)

The game may not be perfect, but hey, what game is? :P

Anyhows, happy new year everyone.

[Fencers]

Rarely do I have time to read the loading screen text when moving from like Ziost to the fleet. All depends on your hardware. I notice almost no difference in the loading screens of GW2, SWTOR or Secret World.

Tera's loading screens are so fast all I see is a flicker for a second or two.

Very optimized game, Tera. Superb.

[Lane]

really short loading screen times (this is what ended up being the last straw on SWTOR for me, its UNBEARABLE loading screen times) art style, music by Jeremy Soule (it feels like I'm playing an expansion of Skyrim, because the music is really reminiscent of that game. That man is a GENIUS)

I have horrible, horrible loading screen times in GW2 and I can't figure out why. I mean, it takes literally about 2 minutes for me to zone into Lion's Arch. My bf has to consistently wait for me to zone into cities especially asking, "Haven't you loaded in yet?" It's a real drag. Non-cities aren't as bad, but my bf (despite having a worse computer than mine) still zones in faster than I do.

I hate to say it, but I've found most of the music in GW2 to be somewhat generic and forgettable. Maybe my expectations were too high because everyone was non-stop raving about the score being done by Jeremy Soule, and I did like the music in Skyrim, but I'm really not a big fan of GW2's music. It's not terrible, but it's not anything I'll be looking to buy the soundtrack to either.

[Fencers]

Do you have an SSD?

Switching to SSDs for gaming dramatically effects the dreaded "loading screen".

[nevermore]

I have horrible, horrible loading screen times in GW2 and I can't figure out why. I mean, it takes literally about 2 minutes for me to zone into Lion's Arch. My bf has to consistently wait for me to zone into cities especially asking, "Haven't you loaded in yet?" It's a real drag. Non-cities aren't as bad, but my bf (despite having a worse computer than mine) still zones in faster than I do.

It's the same for me too, and it wasn't nearly this bad until a few weeks ago. It takes stupid amounts of time for me to get to Lion's Arch even though GW2 is on my SSD...

[Meledelion]

I concur, at launch my ssd would teleport me near instantly from one place to another but atm it takes a couple of seconds for LA (and some other places) to load it varies from 15-40sec and nothing has changed on my side afaik

[Doozerjun]

I hate to say it, but I've found most of the music in GW2 to be somewhat generic and forgettable. Maybe my expectations were too high because everyone was non-stop raving about the score being done by Jeremy Soule, and I did like the music in Skyrim, but I'm really not a big fan of GW2's music. It's not terrible, but it's not anything I'll be looking to buy the soundtrack to either.

It's because his music all have the same theme and melodies. I think Jeremy Soule is a good composer but a bit repetitive. Also the music in guild wars and guild wars 2 is more background than a lot of games, so it tends to be unnoticeable after a while.

[Maarius]

It's because his music all have the same theme and melodies. I think Jeremy Soule is a good composer but a bit repetitive. Also the music in guild wars and guild wars 2 is more background than a lot of games, so it tends to be unnoticeable after a while.

I agree up to a point: I love the track "fear not this night" with the vocals. The most epic piece of game-music for me personally since "Arthas, my Son".

[Derah]

I hate to say it, but I've found most of the music in GW2 to be somewhat generic and forgettable. Maybe my expectations were too high because everyone was non-stop raving about the score being done by Jeremy Soule, and I did like the music in Skyrim, but I'm really not a big fan of GW2's music. It's not terrible, but it's not anything I'll be looking to buy the soundtrack to either.

Well, musical taste is a highly subjective matter, that differs from person to person. I mean really, some people consider Reaggeton to be actual music (/retch).

IMO I love the musical score on GW2, but then again, its hard to find an RPG (Online or not) these days that has bad music. Its like the first thing they do on the early alpha is get as epic a soundtrack as possible and then work on the game. Even the most generic, crappy RPGs I've played have had some frikking awesome soundtrack, like Spellforce (Clicky) which was a rather lame RPG, but had a truly gorgeous soundtrack.

World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2, Lineage II, SWTOR, Age of Conan, Aion, Terra, Rift, Silkroad, Cabal, and DOZENS of other MMOs, regardless of their quality as games, have simply amazing soundtracks.

The same can't be said by other genres in videogames, I mean, its not that common to find shooters or strategy games with decent soundtracks (Though they do exist) and lets not even start with racing games or sandbox games. But RPGs? yeah those you can have a full-proof bet that the music is gonna be awesome even if THE REST OF THE GAME sucks.

[Lane]

WoW did have an amazing soundtrack. I can only comment up until Cata though. Rift's was definitely what I'd consider more background, almost ambient. I honestly couldn't hum you a single tune from Rift after a year of playing it except maybe the theme that plays in Meridian. I played Tera for 4 months and don't remember much of the soundtrack at all.

---

Totally unrelated, I'm debating rerolling my level 80 elementalist to human (she's currently Asura). Since there's no race change available rerolling's my only option. What sucks is she has maxed Artificing/Jeweling, but maybe I can find a guide to level those up cheaper than the first time.

At any rate, I'm wondering what to do with her karma, she has 16,500 currently. Anyone have a suggestion as how to best spend it?

[Doozerjun]

Any particular reason why you are re rolling a different race with the same profession?

I looked at the January monthly and it has fractals again, ugh. Guess I won't be getting this one either.

[Lane]

Any particular reason why you are re rolling a different race with the same profession?

Aesthetics mostly. Turns out I hate basically every light armor set for Asura. Meanwhile, it's really difficult to find light armor that doesn't look amazing on a human female. Plus, since I want an Asuran thief I figured I may as well just remake the one I have with the same name/appearance, just different class.

The leveling process is of no consequence, I love leveling and it goes by quickly. Only real downside is losing two 400 crafting professions, but like I said, hopefully I can find a guide to level them up again as cheaply as possible. I do wish karma were account bound though, I've no idea what to spend 16,500 of it on that'll be useful.

[Doozerjun]

Why not make a necromancer or mesmer? Or do you not like those professions?

[Lane]

Why not make a necromancer or mesmer? Or do you not like those professions?

Already have them both. Level 80 Sylvari necro, level 50 Charr mesmer. :P

[Meledelion]

I'd use the karma to get obsidian shards.

Artificing and JC are the two cheapest proffesions afaik. Most profs average at around 8-10g while art only cost me 6g and jc was also around 8g.
http://pwniversity.com/guide/gw2-artificer-guide has a good way of boosting your crafts, it hasn't been updated since the method remains the same but prices have changed so you may want to check what components actually are cheapest. It will look like this method costs you a lot more but keep in mind that everything you gather can now be sold.