1. #31581
    Raiding with cosmetic rewards, GOGOGO!!

  2. #31582
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Raiding with cosmetic rewards, GOGOGO!!
    Honestly this is something me and my entire guild are dying for. Not specifically this, but just more PvE content in general. I know a ton of people that don't care about WvWvW at all and we've all hit 80 on every class and there's nothing to do besides farm gold for a legendary that has no purpose.

  3. #31583
    aren't there guild missions? have you done those?

  4. #31584
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    aren't there guild missions? have you done those?
    Yes, but they're just glorified group events. You can earn influence for your guild and occasionally an alright piece of gear, but again what's the point if there's nothing to use it on.

    There's Fractals but that gets old pretty fast once you've played the crap out of it.
    Last edited by mistahwilshire; 2013-04-17 at 07:44 PM.

  5. #31585
    I have a bit of a theory with GW2 and raids. I believe they won't be putting them in to not compete with Wildstar, since Wildstar seems to be wanting to be pretty raid heavy and focused.

  6. #31586
    Old God Arrowstormen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I have a bit of a theory with GW2 and raids. I believe they won't be putting them in to not compete with Wildstar, since Wildstar seems to be wanting to be pretty raid heavy and focused.
    Sounds like an unlikely reason to not put raids in. I don't see why people want raids, I usually discard such wants, since nobody can really pin down what they LIKED about raids. They liked the experience, but can't their finger on what part of it they liked. Raids is, in the end, just big dungeons. And I find five people more than enough for such kind of content.
    Using open zones like Orr, or guild stuff, however, I'd prefer more. Fractals is all the dungeon and such content needed, if they expand it with more fractals and rewards and stuff. A PvE version of WvW could be cool, because I feel like WvW captures the feel of raids very well.
    Being critical is a burden which some people loves to bear.

  7. #31587
    I don't think it is the raids themselves that people don't like, it is the stuff associated with raiding that people dislike.

  8. #31588
    Old God Arrowstormen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I don't think it is the raids themselves that people don't like, it is the stuff associated with raiding that people dislike.
    I talked about people liking raids, not disliking them.
    Being critical is a burden which some people loves to bear.

  9. #31589
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstorm View Post
    I talked about people liking raids, not disliking them.
    I see, well I still think my comment is a valid point.

  10. #31590
    Warchief Maarius's Avatar
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    I think it's the challenge that people like about raids, to beat an encounter after dozen of runs. This is what's lacking in open world PvE in GW2 at the moment... some of the Orr events are like that and I love those. Everyone can participate without need of grouping and it's challenging. Not as challenging as raiders would like, but better than the loot-pinatas aka Shatterer, Tequatl & friends.

    I hope Anet works on delivering a open world challenge for everyone - not only people in big guilds or people who play in primetime. Haven't experienced a single guild mission since their introduction, because I'm a late-night player

  11. #31591
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    aren't there guild missions? have you done those?
    My guilds too small only got like 6 players and 1 is active (me) i know ppl would come back for raids as we all used to raid in WoW together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstorm View Post
    Sounds like an unlikely reason to not put raids in. I don't see why people want raids, I usually discard such wants, since nobody can really pin down what they LIKED about raids. They liked the experience, but can't their finger on what part of it they liked. Raids is, in the end, just big dungeons. And I find five people more than enough for such kind of content.
    Using open zones like Orr, or guild stuff, however, I'd prefer more. Fractals is all the dungeon and such content needed, if they expand it with more fractals and rewards and stuff. A PvE version of WvW could be cool, because I feel like WvW captures the feel of raids very well.
    What i liked about raids was the complexity of it. Not only getting everyone to do a job but doing the job correctly. Finding out the mechanics and then figuring out how to beat those mechanics. Whats the best strategy to go into a fight with.

    For dungeons its alot less thinking. Fights dont last that long and in some games you can ignore the mechanics (heal through it). I was a raid leader and i liked going on WoWwiki and looking up boss abilities that we would encounter that night, loved going to tank spot to look at various strategies. It was fun. But i never had to do that for Dungeons. I just went in a dungeon and it took about 2 seconds to figure out what to do. They are just more simple and boring and didnt challenge me as a player. Thats why i like raids. Would love for them to be in game. Dont need to add another rank of gear just add cool looking sets.

    I would say start with one raid, 10 man, 5 bosses. 1 set for each armor wearer. If its popular start putting in small raids every few months with new armor sets. Dont need big raids to beat our heads against the wall, dont need to worry about hard modes. Just lay a foundation. Once players are used to it you can go add harder modes to the older raids.

    Wishful thinking.
    Last edited by Zeek Daniels; 2013-04-17 at 11:06 PM.

  12. #31592
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    I think it's the challenge that people like about raids, to beat an encounter after dozen of runs. This is what's lacking in open world PvE in GW2 at the moment... some of the Orr events are like that and I love those. Everyone can participate without need of grouping and it's challenging. Not as challenging as raiders would like, but better than the loot-pinatas aka Shatterer, Tequatl & friends.

    I hope Anet works on delivering a open world challenge for everyone - not only people in big guilds or people who play in primetime. Haven't experienced a single guild mission since their introduction, because I'm a late-night player
    I would assume this is what people mean as well. This is surely want I mean by wanting more end game PvE content.

    There is currently no difficult PvE content in Guild Wars 2. Thing become even easier once you've got a full set of good gear. There's no point to it. You've now trivialized what was already relatively easy to medium difficulty content and there's nothing else to do if you don't like PvP.

    I don't care if it's new "raids" or dungeons or whatever kind of content you want to call it. I don't care if it's 5 man or 40 man, or even solo (shout outs to Brawlers Guild in WoW, every MMO needs a feature like this). I just want HARD PvE content that really challenges players and actually gives meaning to the exotics we farm for no reason.

  13. #31593
    Old God Arrowstormen's Avatar
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    Fractals are hard if you get up to the right difficulty. Still, they can always add stuff. There was an interview on GW2 Guru that touched lightly on the open world and the bosses, and about making them harder.

    The thing is, that dungeons were considered really hard in the beginning. But after people have learned the game and a few "nerfs", people got the hang and now needs a new hill to climb. The interview said as much, so I believe they are preparing this next "hill".

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-18 at 03:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    M

    What i liked about raids was the complexity of it. Not only getting everyone to do a job but doing the job correctly. Finding out the mechanics and then figuring out how to beat those mechanics. Whats the best strategy to go into a fight with.

    For dungeons its alot less thinking. Fights dont last that long and in some games you can ignore the mechanics (heal through it). I was a raid leader and i liked going on WoWwiki and looking up boss abilities that we would encounter that night, loved going to tank spot to look at various strategies. It was fun. But i never had to do that for Dungeons. I just went in a dungeon and it took about 2 seconds to figure out what to do. They are just more simple and boring and didnt challenge me as a player. Thats why i like raids. Would love for them to be in game. Dont need to add another rank of gear just add cool looking sets.

    I would say start with one raid, 10 man, 5 bosses. 1 set for each armor wearer. If its popular start putting in small raids every few months with new armor sets. Dont need big raids to beat our heads against the wall, dont need to worry about hard modes. Just lay a foundation. Once players are used to it you can go add harder modes to the older raids.

    Wishful thinking.
    The bosses in WoW was pure execution of stuff you found on the internet. The leaders the most of the thinking when there was some, but mostly it was just about executing a very specific tactic as flawless as possible. I don't support this, as depth > execution. The fights in WoW wasn't free enough, you HAD to do everything by the book.



    I thought having to use videos, memorize tactics, and look up mechanics took out all the fun in the fights, as you knew what to expect, making the whole thing into a repeat. The holy trinity is part of it too, putting people into roles, making them less free and bound by the written tactics. Without a holy trinity, chaos is more of a factor, and with loose mechanics that are easy to understand but hits hard, you got a lot of freedom to deal with fights.

    Some prefer order and execution, some likes freedom and depth. Boss fights in WoW ain't BAD, they're very well made, I just prefer not being bound to what is essentially one approach to a fight.
    Last edited by Arrowstormen; 2013-04-18 at 01:36 AM.
    Being critical is a burden which some people loves to bear.

  14. #31594
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Wildstar seems to be wanting to be pretty raid heavy and focused.
    Ugh, I'm with Maarius then, just lost at least 70% of my interest in the game. Really unfortunate because Wildstar and ESO were the only two MMOs on the horizon I was looking forward to and it sounds like they're both going to be raid focused.

    Raiding is only remotely enjoyable (for me :P) if you have a fantastic group of people to do it with, which in my experience is really rare. (It's subjective, I realize. What I look for in a group of people might not be what someone else wants.) Even then, repeating the same content ad nauseum is so unbelievably boring I honestly don't know how people stand it. I get criticized for being an altoholic and leveling multiple characters through the same zones repeatedly, but in my mind there is a huge difference between that and fighting the same boss(es) every week for 9-16 hours a week (depending on the guild's raiding schedule). The only thing that ever kept me going through that repetition were a great bunch of people because nothing else was worth doing that to myself.

    Granted, I only raided in WoW, but there was nothing "difficult" about those fights other than trying to get 9-24 other people to actually pay attention and do what they're supposed to do. Once you've pummeled on said boss(es) for a period of time I really can't say I blame people for not zoning out of the experience.

    As an aside, I really don't understand why so many people want their games to be stupid hard. I'd really like to see an MMO that's just a fun and relaxing sandbox experience. Maybe there is one and I'm just not aware of it. GW2's the closest I've played.

  15. #31595
    I really don't get what people find hard about raiding. I started "raiding" when Sunwell just got released and got up to ZA with a group of pretty retarded people (stamina gemmed rogues...).

    But with wotlk I switched to another guild (top 3of the server) and got better (took me all of frigin nax). Once ulduar hit it was basically just the same thing, different colours/bosses but same mechanics. Once you get that the game isn't harder than tetris or pong...

  16. #31596
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Raiding with cosmetic rewards, GOGOGO!!
    I would enjoy. Once pitched a game to Sony where players ran content for cosmetic upgrades.

    Politely, I was told to get out/"go play Second Life weirdo." :L

    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    aren't there guild missions? have you done those?
    I have. A few of them. But there is just no drive in the game to really do them for me. All upgrades are for me, meaningless.

    Though the biggest sore spot is how shallow all of the combat in Guild Wars 2 is in practice. That isn't to say that all the encounters are "easy". But there is just not a lot of thought, strategy or complexity to any thing in the game from mundane PVE to dungeons, meta events and GMs.


    From a personal enjoyment standpoint, I GREATLY enjoy mathcrafting, strategy and very complex logistical puzzles. I am a stat driven, game mechanics orientated player. The thrill of swinging a sword is far less than the theorycraft of the dynamics of that sword swing.

    The type of games I enjoy on a personal level tend to be somewhat math-y/theoretical; Path of Exile, Metal Fatigue, Sword of the Stars, Guild Wars 1, Everquest, et cetera.

    Just speaking on pure personal enjoyment here. So there isn't ultimately much value in this to anyone else, natch.

  17. #31597
    Old God Arrowstormen's Avatar
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    I have an picture of an awesome giant WvW-like PvE zone, something I call "The Dragon Sieges" or whatever. Basically, half the map is made up of a giant city/castle thing, in my head something similiar to Minas Tirith, where there's fights and sieges and events and walls and towers and gates to maintain. Pretty much like the battle in Return of the King, with stuff happening everywhere around the city, and giant dragon minions knocking people up with giant maces, and crushing buildings with dragons throwing rocks or some risen catapults.

    Then there would be some plains, maybe some farms and small garrisons in the middle, for another set of events happening, with the dragon armies standing around there, so you could maybe sabotage their camps, make a counterattack, or escort some resources into the city, or other stuff. If the army gets pulled back, you can help the damaged lands and keeps and farms.

    Then in the other end, there should be some big Mordor-ish place, maybe customized to the different dragons, so you have a siege for each Elder Dragon, similiar to WvW Borderlands. "The Siege of Zhaitan", "The Siege of Jormag", etc. This would serve as their headquarters, where if you managed to push the dragon assault back, the tables would be turned, and you would have to invade the giant dragon-castle.

    It's wishful thinking, but I think a WvW-like PvE Zone would be awesome, although some might say "go play WvW if you want giant keeps and sieges."
    Being critical is a burden which some people loves to bear.

  18. #31598
    Dreadlord Scyth's Avatar
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    Holy crap Arrow I love that idea lol. Won't mind them implementing something like this. Maybe make it like Guild Raid, otherwise it will be a huge lagfest. Though, that will kind of screw small guilds I guess.

  19. #31599
    As long as the fights are spread out there won't be lag. In WvW (t1) we only get lag when there's big zergs going for SM (really big zergs), as long as they're just going for towers etc it's fine though.

  20. #31600
    Lol I actually think that's a pretty damn good idea Arrow. There are definitely opportunities to be had with large scale PvE (+siege or other interesting mechanics).

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