1. #32041
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Eh, people said the same stuff when the game first came out and every event had 200 people at it, too. Mostly in trying to defend the "dynamic" part of the dynamic event system. I suspect most of it is, "I want this to be true, so here's an anecdote that I kinda believe in my head. Because I want it to be true."
    You are right, it is completely anecdotal on my part. Just to reiterate, I am willing to believe events fail often enough.

    Does my play experience reflect that reality? Most definitely, not.

    When I mention this I am driving at the subjectivity in how people perceive the game here. Where we have some people speaking on the relative ease of the game [lack of mechanics, zerg-ability, length, etc] and others might still argue for the fail state or lack of dedicated roles as evidence of difficulty. Or dynamism, as the case may be.

    The entire concept of difficulty is going to be different from person to person. I am afraid there is no way to program for that in video games as of yet.

  2. #32042
    You are right, it is completely anecdotal on my part. Just to reiterate, I am willing to believe events fail often enough.
    Oh, I wasn't referring to your comments, I was directing that at the "Events fail all the time!" stuff.

  3. #32043
    Pandaren Monk Maarius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Austria (EU)
    Posts
    1,942
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    However. Do note that raiding, in it's instances and non-instanced forms, has been implemented in ways apart from the manner & structure of World of Warcraft's raiding.
    I'd love to hear about how other games do raiding in non-instanced forms and which mechanics these use. I'm pretty sure there are more interesting open world raids than the current ones in GW2 and I feel like telling the devs about these in the forums... It's sad that I haven't got the experience to do so effectively.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-05 at 06:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Heigan and Valithra.
    Man, no offense, but you like the WORST fights. =D
    haha none taken, to each his own. What are your favourite raid-encounters in any given game?

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-05 at 06:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    Also maarius, I know you don't want those mechanics in open world settings but the debate sort of shifted to "gw2 can't have fights like that" which I felt needed a correction
    but I do, lol. Heigan or Valithra in the open world would be great. Or any other interesting raid mechanic which has none of the baggages raids bring with them (dependent on healers and tanks, the need to make schedules for a game, griefable from single individuums,...)

  4. #32044
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Sounds like poor design to create a fight that's only fun when no one is interested in it anymore, but then thats pretty much what GW2 world bosses are, pretty constrained by there own design philosophy. (Although in the case of the fire shaman that isn't fun even when no ones interested in it)
    And the problem with that is once no one's interested in it anymore it's impossible to do. This has been one of my complaints about both SSC and Orr, too much of it is not soloable (duoable, or even trioable in many cases) and there's rarely anyone else around let alone anyone who's interested in bothering with those events.

    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    The claw of jormag is a drab fight with constant champion spawns whose only effect is to run around dying very very slowly while people fire rockets from the sweet spot at jormag. Gear doesnt have any influence here either.
    I hate the Jormag event, I really do. It is so long, annoying, and frankly a blatant waste of time unless you're one of those who loves the mechanics of the fight. There's really no point in showing up until he's on P2 and has | | HP left. Then again, RNG has never favored me in that encounter. I never get anything off the trash and I've never gotten an exotic (let alone a precursor) from either the regular or bonus chest. Given that most rares don't even sell for 20s anymore the time involved to kill him per reward just doesn't seem worth it.

  5. #32045
    Heh, I kind of like Jormag, certainly a lot more than the other two dragons.

  6. #32046
    haha none taken, to each his own. What are your favourite raid-encounters in any given game?
    Most recently, probably H-Nefarian and Sinestra, both were pretty intense and somewhat technically involved when they were current content.

    Actually, a lot of Tier 11 in WoW, come to think of it. (Except certain ones like Chimaeron and Atramedes) Heroic Lich King was nice too, as was Heroic Anub'arak (But only 25-man). Mimiron/Firefighter and Yogg's various difficulties were great.

    I can't think of too much else that's been memorable. Usually I ended up enjoying raiding for the social/progression element more than the gameplay elements, I think.

  7. #32047
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Oh, I wasn't referring to your comments, I was directing that at the "Events fail all the time!" stuff.
    I am aware.

    I was taking the opportunity to draw out my point a little less cryptically. At the same time admitting to the subjectivity my statements and those oft repeated in a similar light.

    Fencers knows how to use the internet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    I'd love to hear about how other games do raiding in non-instanced forms and which mechanics these use. I'm pretty sure there are more interesting open world raids than the current ones in GW2 and I feel like telling the devs about these in the forums... It's sad that I haven't got the experience to do so effectively.
    Usually open world bosses had individually punishing mechanics. Where the duty was on a single player/participant to move or react accordingly. Or simply have mechanics that were in line with the class and role structure of the game; Dark Age of Camelot or FF11, for example.

    For example, in Divine Sword there was an open world boss whom would place a lightning bolt debuff on players at random every few seconds. As the timer ticked down, it would deal AOE damage. The closer you were to other players when the debuff ticked down, the more damage you received as the lightning would chain off other people.

    So it was up to you to move to a safe spot. Players could see a little lightning bolt symbol on everyone, so you were clued as to where to move. The boss also summoned adds, had magic reflect barrier [keep DPSing and you would kill yourself], etc.

    In Rift, a few of the open world bosses also have self awareness checks such as debuffs, safe zones and adds which require coordination.

    One Rift boss spawns a set of adds that are perma aggro to individual players- if they catch a player, the player(s) will be slowed which makes the fight more dangerous. So the ability to recognize when your add is up, kite effectively and DPS effectively is paramount to surviving the repeating phases. There is also the added twist of the boss herself going through 3 phases that require joint efforts by 3 groups to manage each section.

    The Autolia Volcano world boss in Radiant Arcana was another interesting open world encounter. It was tucked away in a difficult to reach part of the zone, had a huge amount of very powerful elites every step of he way. Had environmental hazards like falling rocks, lava, dead ends, cliffs you could fall off, etc. There were patrols players had to "sneak pass" or the patrols would alert more elites and spawn an deadly "Sargent" elite.

    The RA boss himself was a 4 phase encounter with move in/move out mechanics, adds that needed to be DPS'd or tanked away from the the main boss, laser turrets that had to be shut down or redirected and various aggro switches.

    Devs can have mechanics in the open world that in line with instanced mechanics. Developers could just as well create instanced raids without using the same structure of World of Warcraft too.

    For example, did you know there are games that have full raiding with no actual weekly lockout? So one is able to negate the "play on schedule" dynamic of WoW or Rift. Or instanced raids with group sizes less than 10? Etc, etc.

    It's all a matter of game design.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2013-06-05 at 05:09 PM.

  8. #32048
    zzzz...this raid talk bores me

  9. #32049
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    zzzz...this raid talk bores me
    To wit~
    I feel the same way about PVP, jumping puzzle or any other thing I dislike.

    :>

  10. #32050
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Heh, I kind of like Jormag, certainly a lot more than the other two dragons.
    I'm not a fan of Tequatl either, but that's because he has the most BS fear ever. As long as he's roaring you'll get feared so it's pointless to use any fear breakers since it'll just be reapplied and the first application wears off when he's done roaring anyway.

    Shatterer isn't too bad, although constantly dropping target on him is really irritating. (I don't know if that's just me, a bug, or somehow one of his 'mechanics'.) It's one of those encounters that makes me wish the game had "sticky" targeting or that placing a rock on the 1 key to keep attacking worked. :P

  11. #32051
    Pandaren Monk Maarius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Austria (EU)
    Posts
    1,942
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post

    Usually open world bosses - bomb of knowledge -
    thanks, this is a great post! I really believe that the GW2-suggestions forum could benefit from this knowledge.

    When I was talking about "play on schedule" I meant that I have to be online on a specific day for a few hours guaranteed... and I really can't guarantee that I don't go offline in the next minute. This is why I love GW2, events don't care if I have to leave or not, only participating players count towards scaling. Also those fixed raid-sizes are terrible, what if I'm in an 11-man guild? Or 13-man. I don't want to leave friends behind/ lock them out. This is just stupid.

    GW2 hasn't such restrictions and Raids which work like this should never be added imho. I have nothing against solutions which can handle these problems though. It's about fun in the end, I don't care if WoW has raids or not... The only thing that counts for me is to not hurt other people / get hurt. In WoW I had to leave during raids not only once and I hate that situation immensly.

  12. #32052
    When I was talking about "play on schedule" I meant that I have to be online on a specific day for a few hours guaranteed... and I really can't guarantee that I don't go offline in the next minute. This is why I love GW2, events don't care if I have to leave or not, only participating players count towards scaling. Also those fixed raid-sizes are terrible, what if I'm in an 11-man guild? Or 13-man. I don't want to leave friends behind/ lock them out. This is just stupid.
    Sadly, asking for the best of both worlds from developers is probably a waste of time. It's hard enough in games like WoW - even with the fixed raid sizes and all other elements being so controlled - to balance bosses properly and create a reasonable obstacle for everyone. Doing it with no constraints at all is probably nigh impossible.

    Not to mention that when you throw A.Net's design philosophy of complete accessibility into the mix, you pretty much have a formula where you're just not going to see the kind of content that some people seem to be hoping for. Even things like Sha of Anger or Galleon - both considered pretty much entry level loot pinatas in WoW - would probably be considered too much for GW2.

  13. #32053
    Dreadlord Scyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    895
    So..uhm..yeah..I managed to get my legendary the other day. Pretty happy for that it looks damn awesome But it took waaay longer than I anticipated and I won't be going through that again..Still it's my first legendary in an MMO, considering I've played WoW for years, so it's a small achievement for me

  14. #32054
    I've been wondering if it's more cost effective to make your own legendary or buy one pre-made. It seems like there's so much RNG involved in the process, if you're "unlucky" with the forge would it end up costing you ~1200g?

  15. #32055
    I am Murloc! draykorinee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Ciderland, arrgh.
    Posts
    5,818
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    zzzz...this raid talk bores me
    Be away with you! Best convo we've had for ages. I like what the sound of some of the things fencers mentioned, could make for a some decent encounters.

  16. #32056
    Dreadlord Scyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    895
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    I've been wondering if it's more cost effective to make your own legendary or buy one pre-made. It seems like there's so much RNG involved in the process, if you're "unlucky" with the forge would it end up costing you ~1200g?
    It may end up costing even more than that. I went via the safe route and saved up my money and bought my precursor from the TP. It was challenging looking at all this gold and not trying to gamble but knowing my luck in games I would have ended with rares only lol.

  17. #32057
    I am Murloc! draykorinee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Ciderland, arrgh.
    Posts
    5,818
    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/d...orld-vs-world/ news about wvw, well they call it news, really its just a we're thinking about stuff and tweaking but there you go.

  18. #32058
    Short of changing the core gameplay mechanics, I don't see how the, "Letting smaller groups put a dent in larger groups" will ever work. Combat in WvW tends to be so all-or-nothing, you really can't "put a dent" in a large force, or whittle it down over time or something.

  19. #32059
    Quote Originally Posted by Scyth View Post
    It may end up costing even more than that. I went via the safe route and saved up my money and bought my precursor from the TP. It was challenging looking at all this gold and not trying to gamble but knowing my luck in games I would have ended with rares only lol.
    Yeah, but even if you have the precursor isn't it still a lot of RNG for the other components?

  20. #32060
    Nah, precursor is the only real rng. The other one is clovers but that won't make a big dent in the budget.

    It used to be very easy to get legendaries since if you sold one on TP you nearly had enough money to make 2 from that.

    Also if you're going for a cheap one it's usually better to make sunrise/twilight sell it and buy w/e u want.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •