1. #32361
    Quote Originally Posted by Sousoulsu View Post
    What a bunch of fluff.
    Basically, "just wait for it - it'll be good".
    Okay, sure it will.
    haha, not at all really, two of the big things mentioned are already coming out on Tuesday; Solo Q for tPvP with it's own leaderboard and Champion mob loot bags with unique loot based on the mob type. there is some other qol stuff like the account wallet making its debut as well. there is little in as far as actual features that ANet fluff on, how well received they are when shipped is anyone's guess though, but so far i am happy with the direction the game is heading in.
    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

    Guild Wars 2: Odeezee (Necromancer) || TERA: Odeezee (Archer-Ret) || SWTOR: Odeezee (Sith Inquisitor-Ret/Jedi Sage-Ret) || GW: Odeezee Fosho (Elementalist-Ret)
    Aion: Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret), ODZ (Spirit Master-Ret) || War
    : Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret) || AoC: Odeezee (Demonologist-Ret) || WoW: Odeezee (Druid-Ret), Thaone (Mage-Ret)

  2. #32362
    Quote Originally Posted by zed zebes View Post
    I do not want an EJ mentality in GW2. I think the few elitist mentalities that have stepped into the game are a complete joke. You're shaving minutes off a dungeon run that is one of the easiest in game. Until the PVE community stops a) skipping mobs and content b) basing everything around select speedruns instead of the overall game c) stop avoiding challenge at all costs and d) EXPLOITING to avoid mechanics, then I don't want to hear a peep from the PVE community.

    Honestly, it's equivalent to the sPvP community basing their meta around heartseeker spam thieves in hotjoin. The PVE theorizing should be about improving individual skill, knowing how to adapt to each situation, and just knowing your class well overall. It shouldn't be about some build carrying you through mindless challenges. The EQN reveal has further frustrated me with MMO pve players. Reading EQN reactions around the web, it seems pretty obvious that a good portion of those that touched GW2 need to learn how to play. It seems a good portion of the community has been used to cookie cutter and roles carrying them through everything.

    I hope to see COF1 less rewarded, and encounters that further punish stacking. I want to see the PVE community to better use terrain for combat tactics rather than for exploit tactics.
    The hilarious thing about the PVE community is that the "hardcores" claim they want tough content but then they whine that Trials T4 is far too difficult. Hard content is hard. What a shock!

  3. #32363
    The hilarious thing about the PVE community is that the "hardcores" claim they want tough content but then they whine that Trials T4 is far too difficult. Hard content is hard. What a shock!
    So how exactly do you know that the same people who want challenging content are the ones that complain about T4 trials? Did you do some kind of poll?

  4. #32364
    My EJ rant wasn't about difficult content, it was about some kind of consensus on effective builds. There is nothing more irritating than trying to be the best at something and people telling you it doesn't matter what you do when it very much does. Literally every guide I've ever read has pages upon pages of people dissecting the writer's choices and making each other sound like a dumb ass who doesn't know the class, so you never know who's opinion to trust. I'm not sure I've ever read anyone say, "I've tried a lot of different builds and I agree this one has been the best so far." It's not just nitpicking about 5 trait points either, it'll be entire trait line choices. "Why did you go 20 into X? I would take those points and put them into Y." Like I said, it's really frustrating, at least for me.

  5. #32365
    There isn't much in PVE that requires that level of intellectual investigation. So you are likely to be eternally frustrated as there are no effective measures or requirements of such rigor in PVE.

    The reason why an EJ even exists is because the "numbers game" of Warcraft is an absolute. GW2 is far more wishy-washy w/r/t PVE effectiveness.

  6. #32366
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    There isn't much in PVE that requires that level of intellectual investigation. So you are likely to be eternally frustrated as there are no effective measures or requirements of such rigor in PVE.

    The reason why an EJ even exists is because the "numbers game" of Warcraft is an absolute. GW2 is far more wishy-washy w/r/t PVE effectiveness.
    I agree with this post. What I miss in GW2 is a quantifiable feeling of my contribution. I know it's a double edged sword but I'd love to have a dps meter in game or a way to gauge how 1 spec compares to another in a repeatable fashion.

    Right now when in a group, it's almost as if you can get away doing no dmg as long as you survive people won't even know your contribution was less than that of a prop

  7. #32367
    Quote Originally Posted by Airbag888 View Post
    I agree with this post. What I miss in GW2 is a quantifiable feeling of my contribution. I know it's a double edged sword but I'd love to have a dps meter in game or a way to gauge how 1 spec compares to another in a repeatable fashion.

    Right now when in a group, it's almost as if you can get away doing no dmg as long as you survive people won't even know your contribution was less than that of a prop
    Surviving is sometimes the best contribution you can make =)

  8. #32368
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    I'll respond with a bit of a rant myself.

    Lane, it's a mentallity thing. Whenever someone actually does the math the GW2 community always (and I do mean always) does one of 3things.

    1. Plug their ears and start shouting "it's not true, it can't be true, it's not TRUE!"
    2. Come up with the "argument" that : "that won't happen in actual game-play since you need to dodge or w/e..."
    3. Don't get how professions work together.

    Look at the guys from DNT. They make guides talking about "the best build that nearly one-shots people just by zoning in the dungeon with it" and then compare "builds" solely based on Effective Power yet nobody calls them out on this retarded reasoning.

    From the start of the game people have been using the "AH Anchor" build for guardians even though it's complete and utter shit. It's a retardedly selfish spec that does nothing for the team and can't 'anchor' for shit, you simply give up DPS for nothing in return.
    Even with this you are supporting my argument. When I played cata, I had a specific spec that was best. There was almost no choice. X > Y so take X. I am not sure about now but in GW2, there are still choices. I can tweak my build depending on the other classes in the run, I can tweak it depending on what the group needs or I can tweak it for out and out dps on a single target. Choices are a good thing. People may not be making the right choices but that doesn't mean that having them is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    A couple of people have called strife/DNT out many times on some of those things and then lots of people band-wagoned in naming and shaming people who actually take the time to make a spreadsheet plug everything in and then coming up with an answer.

    1. is something you see a lot (and that's probably my biggest annoyance), if you've visited the warrior thread you've probably seen me get annoyed quite a bit thanks to people who keep bringing up the same "point". Regardless of how many times you address something, people keep shouting stupid things like "but I can stand at max range with my longbow, do 6k auto attack hits and never be in any danger"

    2. This is probably the biggest reason why GW2 doesn't have an EJ-like forum/site. On EJ nobody cares about stuff like that happening since that will happen regardless of your build, if there's a racing car and a prius going as fast as possible from point A to point B you don't take the prius since on some parts of the route there's swirley turns and corners, you take the racing car since all though it's potential will be limited in those areas on the other areas he has a big lead.

    3. For someone reason people see stuff like mesmer/guardian and think "support" giving up everything else in return. I have a couple of people who do dungeons with and for some reason they are hell bent on some blinding glamour/reflect mesmer and a "healing hammer" guardian. And what happens is that you get looooong fights with big chances of dropping dead and like 200% reflect/absorb up-time so that both the mes and guardian have useless traits. You can easily make the guardian and mes full GC builds and keep up 100% reflect/absorb. It's also been known for ages that thieves/rangers/guardians/ele do competitive dps (slightly less) than warriors and that most people just bring warriors due to ease how easy they are to play in full zerker. Thanks to the recent nerfs to warriors (which are quite significant) all those classes deal more DPS than the warrior and the only real reason to bring a warrior is for the offensive support.

    People seem to want to "optimise" but only do it half-assed (which doesn't fcking work). I've done countless CoF farms and I know how to do it ASAP using a 3war+mes+X (usually either thief or war) team and every single run you ping your gear but you see people running "endure pain+sio" and use stupid traits like 30/30/0/0/10 for some god damn reason, they also use the elite banner since "it does more dps" while it doesn't since you should have 25might and fury for a full fight without even using your god damn elite. The only reason to use it is for a 1% dmg increase thanks to empowered and stability (but you shouldn't be using empowered anymore...)

    The great thing about EJ-Like sites is that people "accept" the math and in situations where there's a big change in play-style (can't backstab or stuff like that) EJ-posts a build specifically for that one fight and people use their alternate set for that. Everyone simply takes the math from EJ and posts guides everywhere else on the internet, this doesn't mean EJ is always right (they're wrong quite often when it comes to certain specific cases) but you get some unifying power.

    If you're looking for one site like EJ for GW2 you're unlucky since neither reddit nor GW2guru (and especially not the official forums by god the shit I've seen come flying out of that hell-hole is unbelievable) use math-based builds.
    I am not saying that an EJ style thing is wrong for GW2. I used to visit there a lot when I played WOW. I enjoyed the discussions. I am saying that it's less relevent (if at all) for something like GW2. In WOW, there were certain fights that were gear checks. Working optimally there was required. Just, a strong guild could boost an idiot through them but while progressing, the whole team needed to contribute on those fights. Working optimally was critical to the success of the raid. Pre-Potting, Gemming, enchanting, etc. right made a huge difference and was more often than not the difference between a successful or failed fight. It was the difference between success or failure. In GW2, you are talking about a 5 second difference on a speed run, not exactly something to get excited about. EJ's exists because there is a need for it in WOW. There is not that need in GW2. The right spec along with the correct enchants, pots, etc could effectively double the DPS for a player in the same gear in WOW, if not more. In GW2, you are probably looking at a difference of 100% between someone in blues with no traits and no gems, etc compared to a player with full exotics, optimal traits (for their play style), etc. A lot of the EJ people are hardcore players and I don't really believe that GW2 has that many of them and I think a lot of those who do play are hardcore in other games and just hang out in GW2 for fun. Why don't you ask for them to add a subforum here for "elite" discussions or on GW2Guru.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    This isn't true at all. Check GW2Guru and see how people have been "discussing" axe vs axe/mace+gs vs gs. Using your statement you'd think they're all pretty competitive, yet someone has done the math on reddit and it's not even close.
    I can only go on my main profession which is an engineer and I can tell you that it's not a cut and dried matter with engineers. Engineers can play with different kits as their primary choice. The traits are determined a lot by which kit you prefer using. Even then, one needs to look at what supporting characteristics are important for the group. Are stacking vuln and bleeds important or is something else more important. If I then look primarily on my build which is for grenades, what gear is best? Well, that also depends, how long is it going to take to down the boss? Are there a lot of adds? If the bosses generally won't take long then berserker gear is better whereas rampager is the best gear for bosses that take a bit longer. Runes are not cut and dried either, as are sigils. The rabid gear does approximately 96% of the damage that rampager gear does on bosses but it adds survivability. Of course that's not important for a speed run but if you look at the actual figures, berserker gear is only 98% of rampager.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zdrasti View Post
    Surviving is sometimes the best contribution you can make =)
    On the shaman if you only have a couple of people it definitely is as the health resets if everyone dies. I managed to solo one the of the phases on the shaman before I got tired of it so I am sure you can solo it.

  9. #32369
    Even with this you are supporting my argument. When I played cata, I had a specific spec that was best. There was almost no choice. X > Y so take X. I am not sure about now but in GW2, there are still choices.
    Eh, the problem with "choices" in MMO character builds is that there tends to be two extremes.

    1) There are good and bad choices, and eventually everyone knows what the "best" choice is and sticks to that.

    2) Choices matter so very little that ultimately it doesn't matter what you pick.

    WoW falls into the first category for the most part. There are choices, but some are simply better than others for most anything.

    GW2 is mostly in the second category, it really barely matters what you pick most of the time, so people see the illusion of having more choices.

  10. #32370
    So the queens gauntlet is temporary. There are 6 domes only 1 person can be in each at a time and you have 2 minutes to beat 5 boss mobs.

    I have a feeling since it's temporary and you have 2 minutes to beat 5 mobs I doubt this will be any sort of challenge....

  11. #32371
    I have a feeling since it's temporary and you have 2 minutes to beat 5 mobs I doubt this will be any sort of challenge....
    "Kite kite kite kite kite kite" will be the name of the game, I'm sure.

  12. #32372
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    1. Even with this you are supporting my argument. When I played cata, I had a specific spec that was best. There was almost no choice. X > Y so take X. I am not sure about now but in GW2, there are still choices. I can tweak my build depending on the other classes in the run, I can tweak it depending on what the group needs or I can tweak it for out and out dps on a single target. Choices are a good thing. People may not be making the right choices but that doesn't mean that having them is bad.



    2. I am not saying that an EJ style thing is wrong for GW2. I used to visit there a lot when I played WOW. I enjoyed the discussions. I am saying that it's less relevent (if at all) for something like GW2. In WOW, there were certain fights that were gear checks. Working optimally there was required. Just, a strong guild could boost an idiot through them but while progressing, the whole team needed to contribute on those fights. Working optimally was critical to the success of the raid. Pre-Potting, Gemming, enchanting, etc. right made a huge difference and was more often than not the difference between a successful or failed fight. It was the difference between success or failure. In GW2, you are talking about a 5 second difference on a speed run, not exactly something to get excited about. EJ's exists because there is a need for it in WOW. There is not that need in GW2. The right spec along with the correct enchants, pots, etc could effectively double the DPS for a player in the same gear in WOW, if not more. In GW2, you are probably looking at a difference of 100% between someone in blues with no traits and no gems, etc compared to a player with full exotics, optimal traits (for their play style), etc. A lot of the EJ people are hardcore players and I don't really believe that GW2 has that many of them and I think a lot of those who do play are hardcore in other games and just hang out in GW2 for fun. Why don't you ask for them to add a subforum here for "elite" discussions or on GW2Guru.



    3. I can only go on my main profession which is an engineer and I can tell you that it's not a cut and dried matter with engineers. Engineers can play with different kits as their primary choice. The traits are determined a lot by which kit you prefer using. Even then, one needs to look at what supporting characteristics are important for the group. Are stacking vuln and bleeds important or is something else more important. If I then look primarily on my build which is for grenades, what gear is best? Well, that also depends, how long is it going to take to down the boss? Are there a lot of adds? If the bosses generally won't take long then berserker gear is better whereas rampager is the best gear for bosses that take a bit longer. Runes are not cut and dried either, as are sigils. The rabid gear does approximately 96% of the damage that rampager gear does on bosses but it adds survivability. Of course that's not important for a speed run but if you look at the actual figures, berserker gear is only 98% of rampager.
    1. This is a logical fallacy. There is only "one" best spec, the goal is to find it. You can tweak your own build to be better depending on what team you run with, but this falls under a category mentioned before "half-assed optimisation". If you truly optimise you'll run the team setup with the best dps and the individual builds that get them.

    2. You touched on it shortly, but I also addressed this before: DPS-checks/gated content are the only reason in WoW why people theorize. There are no mechanics that force you to theory-craft since you can just wait till you out-gear it.
    (I've also been in top 100guilds in WoW of which less than 50% actually pre-potted and used the 100% correct enchants since they "prefer mongoose", gear really isn't as much of a factor in WoW as people make it out to be (there's a reason why World-first guilds can do content without being in the correct item-level gear)

    3. Basically the same point as 1. Optimising around un-optimised groups is silly.
    This is another reason why I "dislike" the current GW2 theory-craft community, they say Condition Damage is bad since it overlaps with others blablabla. On it's own that's a good point and very important for people who pug/don't have a fixed team. Once you do have a fixed team you can work around it and condition damage has the potential to do insane amounts of DPS (necro and engineer mainly)

  13. #32373
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    1. This is a logical fallacy. There is only "one" best spec, the goal is to find it. You can tweak your own build to be better depending on what team you run with, but this falls under a category mentioned before "half-assed optimisation". If you truly optimise you'll run the team setup with the best dps and the individual builds that get them.
    Of course, but that's taking it to extremes. Playing engineer with grenades is interesting to say the least but it's certainly not for everyone. Someone forcing themselves into a specific playstyle because it provides the best DPS while optimal is a very quick way for someone to leave the game. The same can be said for forcing people to play specific professions to maximize DPS. If thats what you are referring to.

    If not, you mention getting the optimal builds for the team. In something like WOW, the optimal build for enhancement shaman was X, regardless of what the rest of the team was. The only decision was whether to bring an enhancement shaman or not. At least in GW2 (while you can still force the professions), you can tweak the traits to match the group. If I understand the latest WOW changes, you can do the same there now. That sort of choice goes against the grain of EJ as my groups optimal build for my profession is not the same as yours as I could have different professions in my group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    2. You touched on it shortly, but I also addressed this before: DPS-checks/gated content are the only reason in WoW why people theorize. There are no mechanics that force you to theory-craft since you can just wait till you out-gear it.
    (I've also been in top 100guilds in WoW of which less than 50% actually pre-potted and used the 100% correct enchants since they "prefer mongoose", gear really isn't as much of a factor in WoW as people make it out to be (there's a reason why World-first guilds can do content without being in the correct item-level gear)
    Let me word it slightly differently. There is a lot less reason to theorycraft in GW2 then there is in WOW. Just as there is even less reason to TC in mushy monsters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    3. Basically the same point as 1. Optimising around un-optimised groups is silly.
    This is another reason why I "dislike" the current GW2 theory-craft community, they say Condition Damage is bad since it overlaps with others blablabla. On it's own that's a good point and very important for people who pug/don't have a fixed team. Once you do have a fixed team you can work around it and condition damage has the potential to do insane amounts of DPS (necro and engineer mainly)
    I don't think CD is bad. I actually really like the mechanic because it favours different gear. It encourages different playstyles rather than just "berserker = best". The limitations of it are the 25 stack limits which means you can really only run one profession that works that way. Of course you can build a group around it. My point was that it's still not cut and dried. Rampager is not always better than Berserker or vice versa. It's those things that actually make an EJ type situation far more difficult in GW2 which is compounded by there being less reasons for it in the first place.

  14. #32374
    It's not always about pushing to be 2% better. Part of my frustration was due to reading people post questions like, "What's the best class to play for X?" and then people reply saying "it doesn't matter" and "play what you want". Oh, okay. So, if I'm looking to do long range, AoE damage I'll be just as effective with a D/D thief as a staff elementalist? Good to know!

    Even narrowing it down to class, say I want to do the most DPS with my warrior, so mace & shield should be okay, right? My point is there are very clear examples of how one thing is significantly better than another so to say it doesn't matter is ridiculous. I don't want to kill something in 10 swings if I can do it in 5.

    Maybe there isn't a PvE content reason to crunch numbers, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. At the very least I believe depending on the situation there is a "best" class/spec for everything, from that point it's tweaking it to your own personal preferences. The problem is in GW2 it is hard as Hell to find. Everyone acts like their version of a build is flawless and the other person is a clueless moron. At least on EJ most people could agree whether or not a talent was mandatory or at least highly recommended, you can't even get people in GW2 to agree on an entire trait line.

    Like I said, sometimes I just want to try stuff out, so being able to copy a cookie cutter build I know has been tried, tested, and true in 5 minutes to play around with was awesome. GW2 I spend copious amounts of time reading people bicker back and forth trying to figure out on my own WTF is the best thing to do. This person says 30/30/20/0/0 but this person says 20/25/5/10/20 and neither one of them can agree on any utilities, but this is supposed to be the "best" spec for X. It can't be both ways! >_<

  15. #32375
    Looks like they will take down the servers tomorrow morning for 6 hours. First time in almost a year that I can remember them doing that.

    As others have speculated, it might be due to the wallet system they are implementing.

  16. #32376
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Eh, the problem with "choices" in MMO character builds is that there tends to be two extremes.

    1) There are good and bad choices, and eventually everyone knows what the "best" choice is and sticks to that.

    2) Choices matter so very little that ultimately it doesn't matter what you pick.

    WoW falls into the first category for the most part. There are choices, but some are simply better than others for most anything.

    GW2 is mostly in the second category, it really barely matters what you pick most of the time, so people see the illusion of having more choices.
    Traits can probably make as much as 40% difference in GW2 so while it's not groundbreaking, it certainly is substantial. 40% less time in a dungeon is significant. I think the problem is that there is no gate content (which is by design) and without that, it will never matter.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Like I said, sometimes I just want to try stuff out, so being able to copy a cookie cutter build I know has been tried, tested, and true in 5 minutes to play around with was awesome. GW2 I spend copious amounts of time reading people bicker back and forth trying to figure out on my own WTF is the best thing to do. This person says 30/30/20/0/0 but this person says 20/25/5/10/20 and neither one of them can agree on any utilities, but this is supposed to be the "best" spec for X. It can't be both ways! >_<
    I have to agree that it was frustrating for me too with my engineer. It might help if GW2 exported logs that people could work with for theorycrafting (build a sim) but the moment that happened then people would use it to create meters and start calling people out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Looks like they will take down the servers tomorrow morning for 6 hours. First time in almost a year that I can remember them doing that.

    As others have speculated, it might be due to the wallet system they are implementing.
    Ouch, that's one of the things I have liked about GW2, almost no downtime at all.

  17. #32377
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Looks like they will take down the servers tomorrow morning for 6 hours. First time in almost a year that I can remember them doing that.

    As others have speculated, it might be due to the wallet system they are implementing.
    I'm pretty pissed they're doing that on the last day of the voting/bazaar being available. Now I have to make sure I get everything done today because I don't know how much longer I'll have tomorrow...
    Also it's happening from morning to midday in the EU =( I wish it was after midnight.

    I hope it is about the wallet, I'm looking forward to that.

  18. #32378
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbleed View Post
    I'm pretty pissed they're doing that on the last day of the voting/bazaar being available. Now I have to make sure I get everything done today because I don't know how much longer I'll have tomorrow...
    Also it's happening from morning to midday in the EU =( I wish it was after midnight.

    I hope it is about the wallet, I'm looking forward to that.
    Well, voting ends today, so it's not on the last day of voting

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  19. #32379
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    Well, voting ends today, so it's not on the last day of voting
    Now I'm confused. My guildies told me I also have tomorrow :'(

  20. #32380
    voting ends in an hour

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