1. #33121
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    My problem with OHK mechanics is that they should only exist in HC (or the toughest) encounters. People will fail and making the whole group fail because some dimwit didn't press a button or stood in the wrong place is not a good idea. I am not saying that the fight should be just as easy if someone dies. Make it incrementally tougher but still doable. GW2 handles it nicely as people can res the afore mentioned dimwit. Not that I think they should have OHK mechanics in the first place. Take 10 average players and you will be lucky to get all 10 doing the right thing for a single fight 1 time out of 10. Even with simple things.
    Agreed with this too.

    I never have been a fan of what essentially amounts to 'zero tolerance' in game mechanics. There's too much room for error that has absolutely nothing to do with player skill, latency being the biggest culprit.

  2. #33122
    I never have been a fan of what essentially amounts to 'zero tolerance' in game mechanics. There's too much room for error that has absolutely nothing to do with player skill, latency being the biggest culprit.
    The good news is that there's really very few fights that are "zero tolerance" in raiding MMOs though.

    To be totally blunt, I find that almost every time people talk about "lag", "RNG", "Broken mechanics", or similar things, they're just making excuses while better players clear the same content. Problem is that there are - naturally - way more non-raiders than raiders, so all the myths like:

    "Lag kills you every other fight!"
    "Raid bosses are just RNG."
    "Raid bosses are always broken."
    "You can't raid and have a life."
    "Raiding is just about gear, you have to have BIS to do any boss."
    "Raiders are all raging kids, you don't want to be in voice chat with those guys"

    Just keep persisting year after year, poisoning peoples' opinions of raiding in general.

  3. #33123
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    snip
    Same can be said for dungeons in GW in my opinion. People so often keep complaining that it's nearly all OHK mechanics while in reality there's very few real OHK mechanics, most are just cleaves which people are too stupid to strafe around and avoid them (while in raids people automatically attack a boss from the back).

    I agree that most people use anything and everything they can to shift the blame to something they don't have control over (like RNG, Lag, bugs,...)
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

  4. #33124
    Same can be said for dungeons in GW in my opinion. People so often keep complaining that it's nearly all OHK mechanics while in reality there's very few real OHK mechanics, most are just cleaves which people are too stupid to strafe around and avoid them (while in raids people automatically attack a boss from the back).
    This is truth. Really true for any game, like you said. I might not enjoy PvE in GW2 at all, but I'm not going to claim that it's broken/RNG/Lag/etc.

  5. #33125
    I haven't raided in a long time, not since Ulduar/Trial of the Champion (or whatever it was called). Generally I did not have any issues avoiding what needed to be avoided, although, I will say that the Hodir encounter in particular was a nightmare for me. Not sure what it was about that fight, but my frame rate dropped to about 5fps. I felt so bad for the healers because I swear I got hit with everything. I actually preferred to spec resto for that one so at least I could attempt to take care of my own fail.

    It was one encounter out of many, but it happens.

    I don't have much in the way of comparison in GW2, not if we're strictly talking about one-shots in raiding.

  6. #33126
    last time I raided was the sunwell in burning crusade of wow

    really got burnt out on it then and haven't had the desire since to ever raid again.

  7. #33127
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    really got burnt out on it then and haven't had the desire since to ever raid again.
    The people and the progression nights were really what killed it for me. I raided off and on from vanilla to Wrath and in all that time I was in one raiding guild that either 1) didn't rapidly deteriorate after becoming "hardcore" or 2) wasn't full of pricks. That one guild actually made raiding enjoyable because they were such a fun bunch of people to be around I didn't really care what we were doing. Unfortunately, I just don't have it in me to kiss a bunch more frogs to find another guild that doesn't suck.

    And progression nights were just the stuff of nightmares.

  8. #33128
    I raided off and on from vanilla to Wrath and in all that time I was in one raiding guild that either 1) didn't rapidly deteriorate after becoming "hardcore" or 2) wasn't full of pricks.
    Yeah, it's a shame that such social issues poison people against raiding in general. Finding "the right guild" is a trial in and of itself.

    And progression nights were just the stuff of nightmares.
    I was the other way around. I loved progression nights and always tried to get out of farm nights.

  9. #33129
    Progression's fine if done right. This is just one example (of many): BWL, two weeks (4 hours a night) of attempts on Vael knowing we did not have the tanks to do him, but forced us to do it anyway as a "learning experience". Needless to say, I quit that guild after that, but following guilds weren't much better in terms of demanding everyone continue an encounter we didn't meet for some reason (gear, class composition, etc.) not to mention pushing everyone long past their patience and morale thresholds.

    It just wasn't fun. That's another thing my last raiding guild was really good at, knowing when to stop.

  10. #33130
    Yeah, my last guild only raided 3 nights a week, with a strict 4-hour maximum, and we knew to skip progression on things if we just didn't have the people for it. (The GM was a really excellent as a raid leader and organizer, but frankly really shitty as a human being. Good thing I only dealt with him in the former role)

    We did some pretty nice progression with just those 12 hours/week. Think they're still going strong today, too.

  11. #33131
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    The good news is that there's really very few fights that are "zero tolerance" in raiding MMOs though.
    I am not sure about present raids but most of the WOW 4 raids were seriously intolerant. That doesn't necessarily mean that there is a one shot mechanic in place but rather they didn't allow for any level of failure which is just as bad for a normal mode fight. Normal mode fights should allow groups to make a mistake or two and still succeed. HC should be zero tolerant. One mistake by one person in a group shouldn't end up in a wipe which was often the case. OHK's just make it worse because it's often impossible to succeed with a player down because of enrage timers or burn phases.

  12. #33132
    Legendary! draykorinee's Avatar
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    I dont agree Gray, you could fail quite often in most raids, and we often did being quite scrubbish, even heroic modes, I don't know what raids in particular you think were devoid of any chance of failure, but I havent played any since TBC.
    This doesn’t mean that we’re walking away from our fans who only play on PlayStation or on PC. We have Lara Croft and the Temple of Osiris coming to those platforms this December, and Tomb Raider: The Definitive Edition is available on PS4.
    More corporate lies and bullshit PR in the gaming industry.

  13. #33133
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    I dont agree Gray, you could fail quite often in most raids, and we often did being quite scrubbish, even heroic modes, I don't know what raids in particular you think were devoid of any chance of failure, but I havent played any since TBC.
    I am saying that failure occurred too often for casual players, not the other way around.

    This is one of the things I like about GW2 although GW2 seems to err far too much on the side of easy. There is a balance between the old Teq and the new one which they seem to be battling to find. The new one is perfect for an instance where you have a more organised group. They could put a higher precursor drop rate in to encourage guilds to run it. They could even make it tougher. The old one was a face palm. Somewhere in the middle is a nice balance. An encounter that is not face palm but is also doable by casual players. I am not saying make it longer, just a bit tougher. A bit like golem II now where you can't stand and ignore the mechanics.
    Last edited by Gray_Matter; 2013-10-11 at 07:40 PM.

  14. #33134
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    I don't know what raids in particular you think were devoid of any chance of failure, but I havent played any since TBC.
    The game is so different now there's really no comparison. The gap between the best players and the average player has widened to really absurd levels. For the most part in Vanilla and TBC, raiding was 95% logistics (e.g. herding cats). That is obviously still important, especially for middle tier guilds, but at the top end guilds have a level of seriousness and skill that just blows earlier eras out of the water.

  15. #33135
    Alright, guys. Really need to kill the conversation on World of Warcraft gameplay specifics here. There are other forums for that, not the Guild Wars 2 forums. And frankly, the discussion has veered toward a specificity that is not productive in the context of this thread or forum.

    -- Fencers

  16. #33136
    What is the deal with Fiery Greatsword? The past few times I've run CoE the parties have either talked about how OP it is or asked me if I know how to use it (on my mesmer). O_o One person said you disable auto-targeting and spam #4? Is that really all it is?

    Totally unrelated, the last time I played Sanctum Sprint for the daily activity I was accused of cheating and supposedly reported. Apparently I'm just that good at it. :P Seriously, why would anyone cheat? The rewards aren't worth it and there's nothing to be gained coming in first.

  17. #33137
    FGS 4 is a rush but it's special in that it trigers it's attack even without having a target, this means that if a target is "walled" you can make it take dmg for the duration of the rush instead of just the "swing" which does shit tons of dps and is considered by some as a glitch/bug due to how much dmg it does.

    The rush works the same way on norn btw (bear or leopard form but bear is stronger) and the only exception afaik is war's GS rush.

    If you want to get an idea of how retardedly broken that is go to the dummies and stand in front of one in the cornet, don't target it and use a rush skill and watch the insane dmg trickle in.
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

  18. #33138
    Quote Originally Posted by Amera View Post
    The game is so different now there's really no comparison. The gap between the best players and the average player has widened to really absurd levels. For the most part in Vanilla and TBC, raiding was 95% logistics (e.g. herding cats). That is obviously still important, especially for middle tier guilds, but at the top end guilds have a level of seriousness and skill that just blows earlier eras out of the water.
    That's a really ignorant comment.

  19. #33139
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Totally unrelated, the last time I played Sanctum Sprint for the daily activity I was accused of cheating and supposedly reported. Apparently I'm just that good at it. :P Seriously, why would anyone cheat? The rewards aren't worth it and there's nothing to be gained coming in first.
    I did a Sprint a while back, was #1 the entire time with no one behind me, then right at the end someone was suddenly ahead of me. (I turned a corner and they were there, running.)

    I asked "Light Travel?" and they said "ha ha no, I know a shortcut"...

    So yeah, apparently there are cheaters of some sort there.

  20. #33140
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    I asked "Light Travel?" and they said "ha ha no, I know a shortcut"...

    So yeah, apparently there are cheaters of some sort there.
    There are plenty of shortcuts.

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