1. #33401
    Mainly dragonite, but in comparison all mats.

    I have 12stacks of emp and dust left and I have 50 of each refined mat (bricks/stars?)

    In WvW I get a lot less in comparison than dungeons. Dragonite is what 4ore per keep, vs 20 per dragon
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

  2. #33402
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Changing gear stats would be nice. My only reservation about that is their cosmetic system being what it is.
    I'd really rather some of the armor sets became skins rather than stats. Like the three orders or the cultural armors.

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    From developer live stream via Dulfy: http://dulfy.net/2013/12/17/gw2-developer-livestream-notes2013-retrospective-part-two/

    Why decide to bind weapon skills to weapons

    Isaiah: In GW1 we had a giant array of combinations. This resulted in a huge amount of bad builds and a lot of people were not able to do the content. If we package things together and give them a minimum bar of effectiveness that give us a lot more control over what we can expect the players to do.
    Mike: There were surprising a lot of GW1 players who were running with the first 8 skils that they have unlocked throughout the entire game.

    Sort of amusing to think of players complaining about how hard stuff is when they're using whatever talents happened to occur. I'd still like a bit more variety, if not at least the ability to rearrange the order of weapon skills.

  3. #33403
    That really doesn't surprise me at all and I'm confident the same thing happens (traitwise and utility wise) in GW2.
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

  4. #33404
    It saddens me that they basically developed the skill system to the lowest common denominator. One of the best parts of GW1 was that skill system. Yeah a lot of those skills were redundant but that is correctable with a new game.

  5. #33405
    IMO you should never balance a game according to people who don't play it "right", I really don't get it.
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

  6. #33406
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    I'd really rather some of the armor sets became skins rather than stats. Like the three orders or the cultural armors.
    The problem, as I see it, is this: if you have one 'be-all/end-all' set of armor that means the purchase of splitters is going to practically become a necessity every time you want to change your look. Additionally, due to the lack of a PvE locker combined with GW2's penchant for limited edition skins means your bank (or mule) is going to fill up quickly, thus prompting having to buy additional bank space (or character slots).

    From a financial perspective, I don't see how it would anything but benefit Anet to have ascended armor with the ability to stat change. However, from a player perspective be prepared to either pick out one 'permanent' look for yourself or endlessly shell out $ or gold for both splitters and transmutation crystals.

    This isn't to say I'm against a 'be-all/end-all' set of armor. It's more a commentary on how terrible GW2's cosmetic system is. The way it is isn't ideal by any means, but at least I can justify a second skin for an alternate gear set. That justification is removed with one armor set and suddenly I just have a bunch of skins taking up space that'll cost me quite a bit of $/gold to switch to if I want. I suppose I could just have multiple sets of ascended armor, but that's not really taking care of the problem either.

  7. #33407
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    It saddens me that they basically developed the skill system to the lowest common denominator. One of the best parts of GW1 was that skill system. Yeah a lot of those skills were redundant but that is correctable with a new game.
    More that they slimmed up the wide range into a more narrow range, which is fine, but I think it's a little TOO narrow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    The problem, as I see it, is this: if you have one 'be-all/end-all' set of armor that means the purchase of splitters is going to practically become a necessity every time you want to change your look. Additionally, due to the lack of a PvE locker combined with GW2's penchant for limited edition skins means your bank (or mule) is going to fill up quickly, thus prompting having to buy additional bank space (or character slots).
    If you have a bunch of stuff that is statted to use as "base armor", then additional "luxury" stuff as skins makes more sense to me. The Order pieces are a good example, since they're Rare stuff rather than exotics. So if you're going to make them exotic, you're already transmuting to some base set like the crafted set.

    It wouldn't really require more splitting, because the base armor is already there in the system. Offhand, how many crafted base exotics cost more than a splitter? Mind you, if they just make it "select-a-stat" like I think they intend, (similar to how they did the recipes for ascended), then it can work for like, Cultural armor, but still leaves Order stuff a bit lower.

    What I mean is something like how the Wv armor vendor is right now, a bunch of gear with stats, and a bunch of skins in another tab.

  8. #33408
    Bloodsail Admiral nevermore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    IMO you should never balance a game according to people who don't play it "right", I really don't get it.
    100% agree. It completely baffles me.

    If you're too dumb/dont care to figure out a decent spec (it's an online game, not quantum physics) maybe that content segment wasn't designed for you. Heck you could even ask others on an online forum ;D Simples.
    Last edited by nevermore; 2013-12-18 at 09:24 AM.

  9. #33409
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    Very embarrassing that they used the players that didn`t learn how to play Guild Wars, as an excuse for attaching the spells to the weapons, to remove the option of even more build options.
    Making a game player friendly is one thing, but this...?

    Having said that, considering some of the dumb balance moves done in this game, possibly a good thing too.

  10. #33410
    I wish they would just give a plain "no more tiers" promise. I feel like all the dev time spent on Ascended gear has been wasted. I don't know a single person actually bothering with Ascended armor once they saw the time-gating and grind. I made one ascended weapon and that was it for me. Stats weren't worth the time cost. Dev time wasn't worth the addition of the tier to the game. It has added extremely little to the game. I would have rather they spent the time on adding the crafting recipes to redoing crafting to be more interesting and useful. Most of the disciplines should be as interesting as Cooking.

  11. #33411
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbait View Post
    Making a game player friendly is one thing, but this...?
    The most successful games in this genre are specifically successful for their broad appeal and ease of play. Indeed, the defining design of the most successful MMO ever made is it's extreme approachability and ease of play. Which defines the 2nd MMO era totally.

    Gw2 is a fair bit more successful than GW1 was in the competitive market. It's Anet desire to create a product for entertaining a broad spectrum of persons. So it worked.

  12. #33412
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    The most successful games in this genre are specifically successful for their broad appeal and ease of play. Indeed, the defining design of the most successful MMO ever made is it's extreme approachability and ease of play. Which defines the 2nd MMO era totally.

    Gw2 is a fair bit more successful than GW1 was in the competitive market. It's Anet desire to create a product for entertaining a broad spectrum of persons. So it worked.
    (In the "Jimquisition" tone) APPEAL TO A WIDUH AUHDIENCE

    Blargh.

  13. #33413
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    (In the "Jimquisition" tone) APPEAL TO A WIDUH AUHDIENCE

    Blargh.
    There is nothing wrong with appealing or design a game for a broad audience. World of Warcraft, Super Mario Bros., Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy 7 are fine games in their own right. Well made, well executed. Few to none gameplay contradictions.

    It is not the case that every game need aspire to be The Secret World, Super Meatboy, Vindictus or To the Moon.

    It's fine. The market is vast.

  14. #33414
    Dreadlord Fishbait's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    (In the "Jimquisition" tone) APPEAL TO A WIDUH AUHDIENCE

    Blargh.
    *Jimquisition mode engaged* HA!

    Only recently discover both him & ZeroPunctuation, hilarious stuff at times

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    The most successful games in this genre are specifically successful for their broad appeal and ease of play. Indeed, the defining design of the most successful MMO ever made is it's extreme approachability and ease of play. Which defines the 2nd MMO era totally.

    Gw2 is a fair bit more successful than GW1 was in the competitive market. It's Anet desire to create a product for entertaining a broad spectrum of persons. So it worked.
    Wasn`t Guild Wars also released during a time when cable/fibre didn`t exist & that many folk had no internet? So gw2 is bound to seem more popular as, well, who doesn`t have internot access these days? hehe
    I think gw2 is far too easy & having the option to mess builds even more would have added to make the game hold interest longer then it did.

    As for making the game player friendly, gw2 is, in general, face roll most of the time & the only times it isn`t is when anet hits the players with their infamous "Hmm, we`re not that good at fight mechanics, here, have a one shot-BOOM" mechanic.
    Guild Wars may of been tough for some, but all you had to do was twig what build would be best in what area/dungeon etc & then have at it. Hell, I`m still playing & learning & that`s what makes it fun & for those that don`t like the discovering, build sites are *everywhere*

    Same goes for warcraft, I was pvp only in that, yet used to get nagged to boost guildies in dungeons/arena etc & the last guild I was in asked me to help (more hinder ;p) in a raid. Didn`t have a clue on the boss mechanics, they told me on vent & ta-da, few attempts later, place cleared (bored as I was though, mobs dying just isn`t as fun as players >;p)

    i guess the new weapons for each class may also add to things, but who knows...

  15. #33415
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    It wouldn't really require more splitting, because the base armor is already there in the system.
    You would still need to split the skin from the armor or lose the skin permanently under the current system. Unless they readjusted the prices on, for example, T3 cultural then that is 120g vs. the cost of 6 splitters. Not to mention the gem store only sets.

  16. #33416
    Herald of the Titans Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    IMO you should never balance a game according to people who don't play it "right", I really don't get it.
    Game designers are still extremely phobic about just outright telling people how to play, forcing them to create systems which are obvious and difficult to mess up. (so effectively doing the same thing, without admitting it)

    That said, while GW1 is a wonderful game and I love the skill system, someone who just wants to jump in and play it like a standard console game will promptly have their head implode. You really do have to spend some time thinking and researching your bar until you get the hang of things, and it's much more to ask of people than you can really do in a community-based hotjoin environment. Also you practically require a degree in Guildology and a browser window open to GuildWiki ("Wait... is this armor-ignoring damage? Hold on, how is + calculated differently from 'in addition' and...").

    What ends up happening is a handful of dedicated people figure out the good bars, then everyone else just parrots it because it works. This is fun for the handful, but mostly an irrelevant "Glue A to Slot B" for everyone else that's just there for the pretty armor and title farming. Ideally there's a perfect solution that makes every type of player happy, but overall I think the GW2 approach is a pretty reasonable compromise between strategic choice and developer guidance.

  17. #33417
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    You would still need to split the skin from the armor or lose the skin permanently under the current system. Unless they readjusted the prices on, for example, T3 cultural then that is 120g vs. the cost of 6 splitters. Not to mention the gem store only sets.
    You would lose the base armor to the cultural, and just grab another base set.

    Currently, Tier 3 has stats, lets assume you don't like the stats, you transmute them to an exotic base set (like Draconic or something) with the proper stats. If you want Order of Whispers armor, you transmute it to the same base set.

    If both of those were simply skins, you'd apply them to the base set and not transmute anything. If you decided you wanted the other set of armor, you'd buy another base set of armor for the new gear set.

    Current buy it now highest price for a set of berserker gear is 4g, though average is about 2.5g, converting gold to gems to get 300 gems for a splitter is 23g.

    Now, sure, Ascended is in the game, so that wrecks the curve for the formula on some pieces. But for exotics, it's usually cheaper to get a new piece of gear and transmute to that rather that splitting off the old set to re-use the stat-piece.


    This is all aside from trying to get an upgrade back, which the new Upgrade Extractor does more efficiently.

  18. #33418
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    Now, sure, Ascended is in the game, so that wrecks the curve for the formula on some pieces. But for exotics, it's usually cheaper to get a new piece of gear and transmute to that rather that splitting off the old set to re-use the stat-piece.
    Yeah, but I'm talking about if they allow stat changes on ascended armor that would be the only armor set you'd ever need. I don't know how much it costs to craft a set of ascended armor (or if drop rates would be adjusted enough for that to even be a feasible means of re-acquisition), but I'm currently assuming that you would not want to destroy your ascended armor every time you wanted to switch skins, also assuming you would not always want to permanently destroy previous skins, and thus splitters would become a necessity.

  19. #33419
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    The most successful games in this genre are specifically successful for their broad appeal and ease of play. Indeed, the defining design of the most successful MMO ever made is it's extreme approachability and ease of play. Which defines the 2nd MMO era totally.

    Gw2 is a fair bit more successful than GW1 was in the competitive market. It's Anet desire to create a product for entertaining a broad spectrum of persons. So it worked.
    I don't fully agree, you're hinting at WoW and how simple it is (if I read your post right).

    Yet in order to see the lore and what not you need to raid. Even in WoW raids get balanced around "good" builds (because the beta-testers are hardcore raiders).

    Sure plenty of people didn't need a raid-build to enjoy WoW, but those people didn't have the goal to learn why you're fighting Algalon and who exactly that is.
    If you want to know what's up with Algalon you buckle up and get a decent build (or wait until you out gear the content).

    Also the market is a lot more open now than when it was just GW vs WoW vs Eve vs ...
    People got tired of WoW and are looking for other stuff, so they try out other stuff making other stuff more successful. I'm 100% certain that if GW was released now (with upgraded GFX and jumping since that's apparently a deal breaker for people) it would be more successful than it was.
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

  20. #33420
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Yeah, but I'm talking about if they allow stat changes on ascended armor that would be the only armor set you'd ever need.
    Sure, though who knows how they'll bring in changing stats, I don't think everything will get the Legendary toggle, probably some new gem store item or something at the rate they're going.

    It'd still be better if the cultural armor/ order armor and some others maybe were skins though. As you point out, most gem store purchases are skins, so you'd need to split them off, but most other stuff that you can get again, the cost is probably cheaper to replace the piece than to split it off.

    I don't know how much it costs to craft a set of ascended armor (or if drop rates would be adjusted enough for that to even be a feasible means of re-acquisition), but I'm currently assuming that you would not want to destroy your ascended armor every time you wanted to switch skins, also assuming you would not always want to permanently destroy previous skins, and thus splitters would become a necessity.
    I'm mostly refering to some specific armors already in game that you can gain whenever you need, but always must get them as an actual statted-piece of armor. How many people buy cultural armor and don't transmute it? Does anyone buy it FOR the stats? Order armor is the same way. Temple armor or dungeon armor some folks might use for stats as well.

    Backpieces would probably be the best example of some item that is constantly under threat of "look at this new skin!", I think. Weapons also have some expensive models that you might want to transmute to an ascended.

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