1. #9061
    Only thing I am worried about is the fact that Anet will limit the number of players in a zone when there is a huge world boss raid thing in effect. This makes it so there is little/no lag, which is great and all.. but I don't want to have missed out on the damn thing because there are too many people in the zone. I can see it now.. a group of 10-15 people sitting outside the zone, hoping to get in it.

  2. #9062
    Tarien if your idea of endgame is raids then guild wars 2 is not the game for you simple as that. Sorry to put it so bluntly but guild wars is not about being stuffed in a raid with 10 to 25 people wiping 100s of times on the same boss until you down it and do the same thing with the next one. Guild wars 2 is about exploration. And Kicking ass in large scale events that anyone can take part in. If you want something that is both new but old then swtor is the game for you. If you want something that is breaking away from the regular conventions of wow style mmos then guild wars 2 is the game for you.

  3. #9063
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post

    This would be the perfect solution, but the idea of being able to take everyone's stats, their output damage/healing, their damage taken, whether they are doing the right thing at the right time... it's a boat load of variables for a boat load of people, and massively complex. I believe that even if they could pull something like this off they would err on the side of making the content easy, rather than making it challenging.
    not really, for example, take wow.

    right now in wow imagine the huge amount of traffic and data being transfered, then include add ons, then include add ons that communicate with other add ons.
    the difference is that in gw2 those things dont need to be on the client side, they are all server side, and hence will probably a ton faster then in wow.
    Im saying that becuz afaik gw1 did not support add ons and such, im not sure tho since I never played it.

    but the ammount of information aint that "scary" if you consider a nice example like wow in AV for example where there are 80 people in the same map, and every single action is tracked by the game itself and then obviously by a huge amount of add ons that people use.
    Waiting for SWTOR (Star wars: the old republic)

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    or... GW2... undecided

  4. #9064
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    Either way, there needs to be something to do at max level that isn't just more of the same thing you did while levelling. If WoW had no raids, it would not be where it is today. Even the most epic 100man dynamic events are going to get old and dull eventually because you cannot tightly control something in the open world, you cannot limit the number of participants. Look at RIFTs system, there are open world invasions and raid rifts, but they just get zerged and while that is fun at first it soon becomes commonplace.
    Never played Rift and or have any plans to, so this is from outsiders point of view. Rift have holy trinity so when devs are balancing these outdoor bosses they need to consider a lot more variation in possible groups that do the event. For example they need to consider how will event work if there is 10 healers, 5 dps and 5 tank or what happen if there is 5 healers, 14 dps and 1 tank and how that all balance in the end. In GW2 everyone are more or less DPS, so devs have lot less variables they need to worry about. Also when you fail event in GW2 that doesn't mean it's all over, but instead failing event could just trigger different event, so in that case it could be more easier event and in another scenario where players success event it could result more challenging event.

    These events are one main points of GW2 so devs are going to spend lot of time balancing and making them challenging and fun. If Rift events turned easy and simple zergs it just sound like Rift devs failed. Of course Anet could fail too, but I have faith that they will do better job.

  5. #9065
    Quote Originally Posted by Phishy714 View Post
    Only thing I am worried about is the fact that Anet will limit the number of players in a zone when there is a huge world boss raid thing in effect. This makes it so there is little/no lag, which is great and all.. but I don't want to have missed out on the damn thing because there are too many people in the zone. I can see it now.. a group of 10-15 people sitting outside the zone, hoping to get in it.
    I cant quote the dev exactly, but in the panels in gamescon I believe? or maybe pax? they said that while zone have player limits, they firmly believe those limits would never be reached as they are extremely high. So I don't expect to encounter stuff limited like TB in WOW for example.

    tbh, I never knew how successful GW1 had been, with over 7 Million copies sold (in theory, GW1 is the 2nd most played MMO, ofc, since it has no sub, its impossible to know how many pppl are active currently I guess), to be honest that gives me hope that they would make GW2 a really good MMO.
    Last edited by xourico; 2011-09-20 at 12:26 AM.
    Waiting for SWTOR (Star wars: the old republic)

    www.swtor.com

    or... GW2... undecided

  6. #9066
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xourico View Post
    but the ammount of information aint that "scary" if you consider a nice example like wow in AV for example where there are 80 people in the same map, and every single action is tracked by the game itself and then obviously by a huge amount of add ons that people use.
    All that is passed about in WoW is pure data, and the only data really is what is in the combat log, what abilities were used and what did they hit for?

    The system you described would have to look at players stats, it would have to evaluate their behavious. Trust me it would be a lot more complex for it to really work.
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  7. #9067
    Quote Originally Posted by Phishy714 View Post
    Only thing I am worried about is the fact that Anet will limit the number of players in a zone when there is a huge world boss raid thing in effect. This makes it so there is little/no lag, which is great and all.. but I don't want to have missed out on the damn thing because there are too many people in the zone. I can see it now.. a group of 10-15 people sitting outside the zone, hoping to get in it.
    I've never heard anything like this, can you cite an interview or an official quote from a dev?

  8. #9068
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leipuri View Post
    Never played Rift and or have any plans to, so this is from outsiders point of view. Rift have holy trinity so when devs are balancing these outdoor bosses they need to consider a lot more variation in possible groups that do the event. For example they need to consider how will event work if there is 10 healers, 5 dps and 5 tank or what happen if there is 5 healers, 14 dps and 1 tank and how that all balance in the end.
    If there are ten healers it's going to take a long time, if there are ten dps or ten tanks you're screwed. I imagine that the Devs sensibly assume that a certain % of people will step up and tank and heal, and if they don't well tough, you're going to wipe. Which is exactly what happens.
    Playing: WoW (11/14HC), BF3
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  9. #9069
    my local shop is selling GW1 + factions/eotn/nightfall for £25, am considering getting it for the HoM rewards. would it be worth it to start from scratch completely new now?
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Quel%27Thalas&n=Rofflemau

  10. #9070
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morlem View Post
    Tarien if your idea of endgame is raids then guild wars 2 is not the game for you simple as that. Sorry to put it so bluntly but guild wars is not about being stuffed in a raid with 10 to 25 people wiping 100s of times on the same boss until you down it and do the same thing with the next one. Guild wars 2 is about exploration. And Kicking ass in large scale events that anyone can take part in. If you want something that is both new but old then swtor is the game for you. If you want something that is breaking away from the regular conventions of wow style mmos then guild wars 2 is the game for you.
    I'm not saying that it's the only idea, I was kinda hoping that ArenaNet had some cool new system, but there are always limits.

    You say that GW2 is about exploration, well sorry but there is a limit to how much you can see. Large scale events that anyone can take part in sounds cool but that is exactly what Rift does, although admittedly it does sound as though GW2 will do it better, but even so they aren't that ground breaking and you will get bored of them, trust me.

    Honestly, can no one tell me where the challenge is in this game?

    EDIT: Perhaps you are right and GW2 will be too casual for me, which is a shame
    Playing: WoW (11/14HC), BF3
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  11. #9071
    the challenge is in pvp and the level 80 dungeons and events. Dont give up on it until you try it. The massive events at 80 are suposed to be hard, even the lower levels events we saw in some demos and at expos are supposed to be hard, in the demos the dificulty of the encounters was lowered (the devs confirmed this) becuz they want ppl to see the whole encounter and stuff I guess.

    Tbh I will try it, even if I leave couple months after if I find the "endgame" lacking, either way its a safe buy since it involves no fee.
    Waiting for SWTOR (Star wars: the old republic)

    www.swtor.com

    or... GW2... undecided

  12. #9072
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    If there are ten healers it's going to take a long time, if there are ten dps or ten tanks you're screwed. I imagine that the Devs sensibly assume that a certain % of people will step up and tank and heal, and if they don't well tough, you're going to wipe. Which is exactly what happens.
    Yes, but my point was that there is lot more possible combinations of healer/dps/tank roles that devs need to consider when balancing such events. I am assuming that if you have more than "intended" amount of healers some mechanics get trivialized and event will just take longer, though it sound like these events are trivial regardless of that and devs just made these easy in Rift.

  13. #9073
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    Perhaps you are right and GW2 will be too casual for me, which is a shame
    Love how that gets thrown out when people don't understand the game.

    You said in an earlier post, you don't raid for the loot, but for the challenge, so why is GW2 too casual for you then? Just because there's not 25 people killing one boss?

  14. #9074
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    If there are ten healers it's going to take a long time, if there are ten dps or ten tanks you're screwed. I imagine that the Devs sensibly assume that a certain % of people will step up and tank and heal, and if they don't well tough, you're going to wipe. Which is exactly what happens.
    Yeah..... you didn't really read up on it did you?

    There is no real tanking /healing and such.

  15. #9075
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    Honestly, can no one tell me where the challenge is in this game?

    EDIT: Perhaps you are right and GW2 will be too casual for me, which is a shame
    5 mans in GW2 will be anything but casual. I can fish up my post on what the devs claimed PvE would typically consist of if you want, but I have a feeling you've read it already.

    ---------- Post added 2011-09-19 at 08:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Yeah..... you didn't really read up on it did you?

    There is no real tanking /healing and such.
    I believe he was talking about the Rift devs there.

  16. #9076
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    Oh doh, yeah I actually did play Rift for a while in beta and 2 months after release, and rewards for rifts were really imbalanced because all that counted was how often you activated skills, I think they might have fixed that later though.

  17. #9077
    High Overlord bladebeso's Avatar
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    i understaned from the vids tht gw2 depends ALOT on positioning for spells/abilities ie: elementalist fire breath thingy is in a cone infront of u

    now tht is AWESOME on paper but .. i played wow with 100-250 ms so will tht kill pvp for me in gw2 ? assuming GW1 servers r with GW2 servers where r they located ?

    now for the guys arguing about raids and end game content , GW2 seems more like a single player rpg where the leveling part is actualy the most fun learning skills from differnt locations/ actions doing ur personal story + the added benefits of being able to experince tht with ur frnds which is really good i love tht idea and i hope it is well made

    1 more question : how long does it take to level ? if any 1 saw a vid/ played demos can u tell me how long did it take to get a few lvls ? ( Hope its not tht fast to be able to experince the game fully)

    Edit: few typos
    Last edited by bladebeso; 2011-09-20 at 12:49 AM.

  18. #9078
    Quote Originally Posted by bladebeso View Post
    1 more question : how long does it take to level ? if any 1 saw a vid/ played demos can u tell me how long did it take to get a few lvls ? ( Hope its not tht fast to be able to experince the game fully)

    Edit: few typos
    Leveling will only take a few minutes per level up until a low threshold, perhaps level 10 or lower, then ~90 minutes per level until max level.

  19. #9079
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    I know it may sound odd but I enjoy wiping. Bosses are mental puzzles, you figure out how best to beat them, how to minimise your incoming damage and maximise your outgoing damage. Wiping just means that the puzzle was even more challenging than you originally thought and will give an even greater sense of accomplishment once you beat the encounter.

    If a five man dungeon could do that, it would be great, although I would find that less satisfying. In a raid you have 25 people and their abilities to use as tools to solve the puzzle, in a dungeon there are just five. It's like going from a 25 piece puzzle to a 5 piece puzzle, in a sense.

    You say that GW2 will give me the option to do what I want and it will be challenging, I say that without instancing that will likely not happen. For there to be a real challenge you need to instance the event, limit the number of participants and those participants need to be people that you chose to go in with because you can count on them. If it's just a massive zerg, well, let me repeat what I just posted:

    Zerging is always an issue for open world content where anyone can participate, Devs tend to build encounters based on a minimum player standard, ie a player will have at least x amount of gear, skill, experience. But when you have a lot of players many of those players have more than the required minimum and so it becomes a zerg. This is why instancing works so well, you can limit the number of participants and you can create tiers of content and keep increasing the minimum requirements for each successive tier to keep it challenging and not a zerg.

    I agree about the point that most players these days are casual and don't care for raids, and that's fair enough, it just doesn't appeal to me. I am not a casual player, I will get bored if there isn't a real challenge.
    so far, we know that for the least, dungeons exploration modes should provide some challenge. that would be the instanced part, as for the non-instanced world, we can't really judge of the difficulty from bosses which were specifically tuned for demonstration purposes but i could guess not all those events will be that easy.

    also, as players are able to "rez" each other, it's something they can include into their spreadsheets, and make fights tougher because of that.

  20. #9080
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    Honestly, can no one tell me where the challenge is in this game?
    As people have said many times over in this thread, the 5-man dungeons in exploration mode in PvE, and PvP in general. Don't bash the game because it uses different numbers of players and gameplay types, especially since we haven't even played it yet, except for in demos at conventions.

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