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  1. #1
    Scarab Lord Karizee's Avatar
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    The Abjured Take the World Tournament Series in Beijing, China!

    The Abjured Take the World Tournament Series in Beijing, China!

    by Joshua Davis on December 12, 2014


    The day of reckoning has passed, and one team alone stands victorious. ArenaNet, in conjunction with KongZhong, our Chinese publishing partner, is proud to announce that the Abjured, representing North America, have been crowned the very first World Tournament Series champions!





    After Team Prime and Team SALA were eliminated in the semifinals, the Abjured and European team the Civilized Gentlemen faced off in some of the most heart-stopping tournament matches in Guild Wars 2 history. After three grueling games, the Abjured, led by team captain Phantaram, secured the final win on the Temple of the Silent Storm, marking North America’s first-ever win in an international event. For the Abjured, the moments that followed will not be soon forgotten-standing center stage, the North Americans hoisted the $25,000 USD check and first-place trophy high above their heads to the tune of thunderous applause, blaring music, and flashing lights.





    After the tournament, the bus ride back to the hotel was one of mixed emotions-the Abjured basked in their victory, faces glowing with excitement and pride. The European and Chinese teams sat together solemnly, quietly contemplating the decisions and missteps that cost them their chance at glory. As the bus approached the Chinese teams’ hotel, the silence was finally broken as Nocturne, captain of Team SALA, turned and addressed the North American and European teams just before exiting the bus, a fiery glint in his eyes. “We’ll see you in North America!” Nocturne declared, to which the teams remaining on the bus returned cheers of encouragement, welcoming the challenge. In that moment, the night became a celebration of not only the Abjured’s victory but a celebration of all the players involved in the event-a salute to the trials and tribulations that brought these individuals together, regardless of the final outcome. As much as this tournament was about creating fierce competition and bringing players together with the singular goal of besting each other in combat, it was heartwarming to see the comradery shared between the players, each from different walks of life, all ultimately united in their passion for Guild Wars 2.





    We’re committed to making Guild Wars 2 a truly unique experience for our players, both in the game and out, and we would like to thank all of our loyal fans for helping make the World Tournament Series possible. A special nod goes out to all of our new friends on the Abjured, the Civilized Gentlemen, Team Prime, and Team SALA. We are grateful to have all of you along with us for this journey as we shift our eyes forward to the World Tournament Series in North America and tournaments beyond.

    You can join us in congratulating the Abjured on the official Guild Wars 2 forums.

    We’ll see you in Boston.

    Josh and the ArenaNet team


    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/t...beijing-china/
    Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all.
    ~Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy

  2. #2
    This doesn't really seem to generate a lot of interest. Or varied interest in the PVP modes of GW2.

    The YT has about 300 views, 39 likes, not too many Reddit postings that I can see. Production value seems extremely poor as well- poor casting, tin can sound, low video fidelity, etc.

    This seems fairly "low rent" production-wise and lacking robust enthusiasm.

    A casual check of Twitch views seems to suggest the title is lacking concurrent viewership of live streams as well. With most nights the the title average less than 1k viewers total among streamers of Guild Wars 2.

    By comparison even limited closed participation in Heroes of the Storm is averaging twice as many viewers as GW2.

    To say nothing of juggernauts like League of Legends, Hearthstone, CS:GO, World of Warcraft and DOTA2 collectively pulling in 325,092 viewers on a Friday afternoon of no particular importance.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2014-12-12 at 06:49 PM.

  3. #3
    "e-sports" in general is like that Fencers, pretty terrible all around

    good for those that like it I guess though

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord Karizee's Avatar
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    The vid was just put up like moments ago Fencers xD

    I know the NA stream had about 5k viewers, don't know how many for the German, French and Chinese streams. And of course it was broadcast on Chinese television and there's no telling how many views it got there. Not a bad showing for their very first real money tournament.
    Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all.
    ~Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy

  5. #5
    Sadly I have to repeat myself again but hey I can't resist when it comes to PvP.

    PvP is dead. It has been dead for a very long time, in fact it was stillborn.
    When it comes to e-sports there's two (good) ways of doing it:

    1. Make a game entirely focused about being competitive (Starcraft)
    2. Make a game focused on being fun and then put the best against each other (LoL, Hearthstone)

    GW2 failed on both those fields. There wasn't enough support for PvP at the start (which is when it's needed most due to interest being high) so sponsors backed out relatively quickly. The second they failed on due to conquest simply not being exciting. There's nothing amazing about running from one point to another and then stand there doing little to nothing to win the game, you need things that generate hype/show skill. A home-run is cool because people realise it's not something everyone gets all the time, same thing for a touch down or for an insane dunk/3pointer/dribble on the other hand long distance running is boring because it's repeat one thing after another ad infinitum (even swimming is more exciting due to the turns changing things up a lot, personal opinion here obviously).

    People were hopeful, people eventually got news of a big PvP patch, people were disappointed about the PvP patch and then people left.

    I know no games where sponsors have returned after initially backing off, this means that GW2 as an e-sport will either have to pull a rabbit out of it's hat or be a kind soul and kill it off in a humane way instead of trying to jam the intestines back into a deer that got hit by a truck, then driving it over a bumpy road to a forest to smash it's head in.
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

  6. #6
    I usually don't agree with Mel, but have to agree with that post

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    "e-sports" in general is like that Fencers, pretty terrible all around
    I do not agree.

    I enjoy esports a great deal personally. But also I am seeing huge numbers and enthusiasm for other competitive gaming viewership and fantastically high production value of other competitors in the scene.

    Blizzard, Valve and Riot are not dropping the ball on audio quality or clarity of communication. People are watching these games by the literal millions nightly.

    It does not seem as though GW2 and Anet are even punching in the same weight class as like, Smite and HOTS. One of which isn't even available to the mass market or actively marketed.

    When Overwatch hits this gap will likely be even larger considering both production quality, marketing and player enthusiasm among audiences of competitive of Player versus Player video game play modes currently.

    Pokemon Omega Red is destroying GW2 in viewership. The official GW2 forum announcement is 7 days old with a sub-1k viewership of the finals posted today.

    This brings to my mind two questions: 1. What can Anet do to promote GW2 more strongly as an Esport 2. Where is the audience?
    Last edited by Fencers; 2014-12-12 at 07:01 PM.

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    Sadly I have to repeat myself again but hey I can't resist when it comes to PvP.

    PvP is dead. It has been dead for a very long time, in fact it was stillborn.
    When it comes to e-sports there's two (good) ways of doing it:

    1. Make a game entirely focused about being competitive (Starcraft)
    2. Make a game focused on being fun and then put the best against each other (LoL, Hearthstone)

    GW2 failed on both those fields. There wasn't enough support for PvP at the start (which is when it's needed most due to interest being high) so sponsors backed out relatively quickly. The second they failed on due to conquest simply not being exciting. There's nothing amazing about running from one point to another and then stand there doing little to nothing to win the game, you need things that generate hype/show skill. A home-run is cool because people realise it's not something everyone gets all the time, same thing for a touch down or for an insane dunk/3pointer/dribble on the other hand long distance running is boring because it's repeat one thing after another ad infinitum (even swimming is more exciting due to the turns changing things up a lot, personal opinion here obviously).

    People were hopeful, people eventually got news of a big PvP patch, people were disappointed about the PvP patch and then people left.

    I know no games where sponsors have returned after initially backing off, this means that GW2 as an e-sport will either have to pull a rabbit out of it's hat or be a kind soul and kill it off in a humane way instead of trying to jam the intestines back into a deer that got hit by a truck, then driving it over a bumpy road to a forest to smash it's head in.
    I agree that nothing approaches League of Legends right now with their 27 million players logging in per day and the crazy amounts of cash they have in their prize pools.

    But! With the smaller player pool in GW2 (compared to LoL), a new player has a much better chance of getting into the competitive scene and actually winning some cash.

    So while you wallow in a pool of your own bitter mediocrity, these guys -THESE GUYS- got a free, all expenses paid trip of a lifetime to Bejiing China to compete for $25,000 cash, where they were treated like royalty whether they won or lost the Tournament
    Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all.
    ~Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I do not agree.
    I'm sure. Don't mind me. I despise e-sports in general.

  10. #10
    Too bad it didn't take off.
    Been enjoying pvp in gw2 again lately with the new matchmaking changes(plus incoming ladder season), but these changes really should have been in at launch instead of 2 years down the line.
    Oh and courtyard... courtyard can go to hell. What a terrible map to put in the rotation, it should have stayed in custom arena.
    Though there are good alternatives that could have been used instead, I don't actually find conquest to be a bad game mode. It's certainly much better then team death-match or capture the flag.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    So while you wallow in a pool of your own bitter mediocrity, these guys -THESE GUYS- got a free, all expenses paid trip of a lifetime to Bejiing China to compete for $25,000 cash, where they were treated like royalty whether they won or lost the Tournament
    This is entertaining to me for several reasons.

    1. As someone who strictly plays solo I have reached top 100 leaderboards (the new ones, after not playing for a week I dropped to my current ranking of 556 Nescian Meledelion ) and on the old ones here's some of my stats:
    sPvP rank 785
    Personal best rank 124 (12 day, 19 hour ago)
    Wins 1114
    Loses 956
    Wins Percent 53.82%

    2. But yeah, let's say I'm mediocre, I can totally see that. That still means that I'm higher ranked than lots of people who play with friends so I'm quite confident that IF my team hadn't disbanded in October-December? of the release year we'd be playing against the "pro's" that are around now.

    3. In the land of the blind, one-eye is king. I'd prefer both my eyes, personally.

    As for "casuals/noobs" being able to win money, that's a joke. The only money that can be made is the ESL cup which is 400/5/week IF you win, let me repeat that: you can make a whopping 80 bucks a week by winning. In Hearthstone (as a comparison) you can earn that by LOSING.
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    I agree that nothing approaches League of Legends right now with their 27 million players logging in per day and the crazy amounts of cash they have in their prize pools.

    But! With the smaller player pool in GW2 (compared to LoL), a new player has a much better chance of getting into the competitive scene and actually winning some cash.

    So while you wallow in a pool of your own bitter mediocrity, these guys -THESE GUYS- got a free, all expenses paid trip of a lifetime to Bejiing China to compete for $25,000 cash, where they were treated like royalty whether they won or lost the Tournament
    This is a "big fish in a small pond" argument. I do not disagree that the potential for a new player to be competitive is likely higher than LOL or DOTA. Maybe even Hearthstone. But that is ultimately detrimental to developing GW2 as an Esport.

    The basis of building a robust enthusiastic community for Esport viewing is providing competitive, professional, play and exhibition. Otherwise you have a competitive scene with all the intellectual and analytical force as having Jesse Cox & Friends dick around a PVP map for yucks.

    I like playing DOTA2. It's enjoyable in a fashion. But I LOVE watching DOTA2 because the level of play being demonstrated and fineness of strategy is so far beyond what PUBs or myself can muster it is like watching NBA players vs. my nephews shoot hoops. Not that the latter isn't enjoyable too. Though the former sustains an industry.

    The latter is what GW2 seems to be lacking in light of the "World Tournament Finals in Beijing".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I'm sure. Don't mind me. I despise e-sports in general.
    Fair enough. But it seems illogical to "despise" Esports in the same way as one might claim to "despise" cricket. Sure enough not everyone will enjoy cricket- but to despise the sport? Or rather, the competition in the case of Esports?

    Surely if one were themselves an athlete of any stripe they could appreciate at a bare minimum the human example of athleticism in sports from Cricket to Soccer to Figure Skating. Likewise, I assume it would be possible for one who games and engages in any competitive gaming to be at a minimum appreciative of the skill, dexterity and mindfulness of competitive video game play.

    Seems dubious to me that one versed to any degree in KoFXIII (for example) would not be able to at least appreciate the technical skill present in like, this. At the very least. Enjoyment not required or relevant.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2014-12-12 at 08:33 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Fair enough. But it seems illogical to "despise" Esports in the same way as one might claim to "despise" cricket. Sure enough not everyone will enjoy cricket- but to despise the sport? Or rather, the competition in the case of Esports?

    Surely if one were themselves an athlete of any stripe they could appreciate at a bare minimum the human example of athleticism in sports from Cricket to Soccer to Figure Skating. Likewise, I assume it would be possible for one who games and engages in any competitive gaming to be at a minimum appreciative of the skill, dexterity and mindfulness of competitive video game play.
    maybe not despise, just say I don't like it. part of it is probably the use of "sport" in there. Also, as you can tell from my previous posts, I see no entertainment in watching others play video games.

    Also what taints my view a bit is that ArenaNet is so focused on making this game an e-sport instead of making more engaging pvp.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    maybe not despise, just say I don't like it. part of it is probably the use of "sport" in there. Also, as you can tell from my previous posts, I see no entertainment in watching others play video games.

    Also what taints my view a bit is that ArenaNet is so focused on making this game an e-sport instead of making more engaging pvp.
    Indeed.
    It's difficult to equate athletes who commit their lives to the sport in order to get into the industry, to esport "professional" gamers who play for a few months and then go pro.
    The difference is likely in the level of permanence the two mediums have in our world, which makes it difficult to take esports all that seriously for some.
    Where you can play since childhood and train for the better part of a decade to become a professional baseball player and still not make it, individual video game titles usually don't even remain relevant that long.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome Fernling306's Avatar
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    I think some worthwhile casters would help quite a bit. Even if they have to hire a professional from outside their company. Even if the gameplay was entertaining, I couldn't watch it with those guys.
    It's kind of peculiar that they are still trying to push this esport thing. The game has very low viewership because of the SPvP just not being good. Maybe they should work on improving the game before trying to push esport. It's looking pretty sad at this point.
    Last edited by Fernling306; 2014-12-12 at 09:35 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    part of it is probably the use of "sport" in there.
    Well, it's not actually a "sport" nor are the players implicitly "athletes". But to be fair, it is termed "E-sport" which does denote that it is a different kind of sport. Even if used in the sense of "a source of amusement or entertainment."

    Which is actually a valid definition and among the oldest terms for Sport in the English language; "diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime."

    instead of making more engaging pvp.
    I do not feel or see any fruit of Anet's attempts to make GW2 an "E-sport". What exactly do you think Anet should be doing to better promote interest in tournaments such as this recent one?

    What do you think should be done to make PVP more "engaging"? What is not engaging about PVP currently in terms of operation and design?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Arewn View Post
    Where you can play since childhood and train for the better part of a decade to become a professional baseball player and still not make it, individual video game titles usually don't even remain relevant that long.
    One very specific build might not, but some iterative game series have remained relevant for that long and much longer. Fighting game tournaments are a good example. Street Fighter is a prominent one.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    One very specific build might not, but some iterative game series have remained relevant for that long and much longer. Fighting game tournaments are a good example. Street Fighter is a prominent one.
    Don't forget to mention Starcraft, CS, Quake and DOTA. Which likewise have had players whom trained for years.

    Each game has been relevant for over a decade now.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    What exactly do you think Anet should be doing to better promote interest in tournaments such as this recent one?

    What do you think should be done to make PVP more "engaging"? What is not engaging about PVP currently in terms of operation and design?
    Not wait two years to give basic features that people asked for since beta.
    Organize in-game monthly cups (like GW had) with a meaningful leaderboard/ranking system (the direct opposite of what they did recently)
    Instead of rewarding people with in-game "goodies"(which nobody ever cared about) hand out money, talk to sponsors to get teams involved.
    Those are things that have nothing to do with game-play, which is also something that needs to be improved upon a lot since nobody will watch boring e-(sports).

    Stop buffing passive gamestyles, this includes but isn't limited to: Healing Signet on warrior, F1 bow skill on warrior, Minion Master Necromancer, Phantasm Mesmer, Condi Scepter Mesmer, Turret Engineer, Celestial Engineer, Celestial Ele, Staff Ele, Random win runes/sigils like Rune of the Nightmare, Sigils of Air/Fire.
    All those builds basically are boring to watch.
    There's nothing fun about seeing a Staff ele drop it's AoE on a point and everyone just having to run off due to the sheer amount of damage.
    There's nothing fun about seeing a Warrior heal back up to full while chaining blocks/immunes thanks to nothing but that one skill.
    There's nothing fun about seeing a Necromancer/Engineer/Mesmer just stand back while it's minions do everything.
    There's nothing fun about seeing a class do nothing for 2minutes until they built up enough strength where nobody can stay alive.
    ...

    Second they really have to remove most vertical travel from the game. Some is fine so you can make mobile classes benefit from it, it's not fine to have people just stand on top and rain hell down upon everyone below without the others being able to do anything.
    There's nothing fun about an Engineer standing on top at mid on Temple of the Silent Storm just tossing shit down from 9000yards.
    There's nothing fun about a Thief/Mesmer/Ele/Nec back up all the time and then auto attacking from there without you being able to anything about it.
    The maps voted for most (in my experience) are Khylo, Legacy, Forest and not surprisingly they have the least amount of vertical play.

    Another issue is of course game modes. Thanks to bunkers being a thing there's a natural imbalance in conquest, in other games where the main game mode is conquest you get punished for standing on point, you're out in the open and vulnerable to sneak attacks. In GW2 however you get rewarded because decapping goes so fast holding a point becomes far more valuable. This again is boring, imagine American Football where a clock starts running once you get in the touchdown area, until the ball is removed from that area points keep stacking up.
    Conquest isn't great for these type of games for another reason, you need to watch AT LEAST 3 (chosen by a-net) points at once at a minimum, which is impossible for spectators. There's no real main point of interest which makes the viewing experience quite chaotic. It's hard to decide which fight is more important, the one on far where they stand to get a triple cap or the one on mid where they can later fall back to close? Add to this that different people want to watch different players (I listed all classes I find boring to watch before) and I much prefer watching 1v1s over team fights since it's clearer to see skill.

    A better game mode would be GvG (yes this is entirely possible to achieve in GW2, it won't be canon but it can work) or KotH, Heck even CTF can work if you just remove the god damn conquest part.
    Maybe TDM can work but the current map is just a shitfest where whoever has most AoE wins.

    That's from the top of my head so there might be more stuff that's escaping me.
    In most cases, I understand the other side's viewpoint and how they came to it, but cannot tolerate their stubbornness to not see mine (the right one).

  20. #20
    Stop buffing passive gamestyles
    God, do this and I might play PvP again seriously. But yea I don't see why they didn't transfer modes like GvG or monthly tournaments that they had in the first game into the second.
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