1. #201
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowy View Post
    I would like to point out that the big issue with getting your health that high means that when playing as a team, you aren't considered the primary target. Even in GW1, most enemies would rather go after the weaker characters (lower health/armor) or the healers. If the enemy is melee creature and you use a defensive skill that aides against melee, then that enemy will often seek another target when possible.
    Exactly, the only time I've ever seen that particular build work was in a few Alliance Battles as a flag carrier.
    Quote Originally Posted by SW:TOR
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  2. #202
    sigh, you lot never heard of the good old keg/book-trick?

    (no it's not kegfarming from EotN)

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    sigh, you lot never heard of the good old keg/book-trick?

    (no it's not kegfarming from EotN)
    Hah, that's ancient . They fixed that when Factions came out and urn-carrying ritualists would be chased to hell and back, iirc. :P

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    I'm still waiting for concept of proper boss design without tanks. Just admit it's impossible. WoW and other games are using them because it is impossible to do other way without trivialing encounter.
    Just because your simple, wow spoiled mind can't handle even the thought of it by no means says it is not possible. And this might be a shocker for you, it is this very one trick pony mentality that actually makes encounters in wow so damn easy that they have to think of artificial things like dps minigames (also known as dps rotations) to make the ppl not fall asleep. If all you have to do is stand there and do dmg (and once in a while step out of the puddle under you) THAT is trivializing the encounter. If you have to watch your health (instead of healers doing it for you) and watch the enemy (instead of tanks doing it for you) and help out others (again instead of healers doing it for you) while constantly having to position yourself to avoid as much dmg as possible while doing dps, how is that more trivial than standing there and spamming the sh!t out of your fireball/arcane blast/incinerate/whatever?

    How hard a boss hits has nothing to do with how hard an encounter is. Patchwerk was the hardest hitting boss in naxx, still he was a complete joke. Hard hitting bosses are only a matter of equipment and how fast the healer can spam his greater heal. None of both has anything to do with skill. So if you don't need hard hitting bosses for a difficult encounter, why do you think you need a tank for it?

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Meledelion View Post
    sigh, you lot never heard of the good old keg/book-trick?

    (no it's not kegfarming from EotN)
    As it has been stated, that was fixed a long, long time ago. Also, when that was viable, items such as those were very, very rare as they existed in only a few areas and a handful of missions. It also took a real player to pick up an item, so henchmen could not do that.

  6. #206
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    Please don't try convince Tackhisis that the game will work without tanks etc, I'd rather not have his stupid kind in GW2.

  7. #207
    Pandaren Monk Chrno's Avatar
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    i remember tanking on my elementalist. :P
    buying cheapest gear get that thing that lowers your HP with 50

    and you sat at 55hp (inc low for GW)
    Then you specced into E/Mo and you had a talent wich made you not get hit for more then 10% i believe. so you only got hit by 5.5hp max and you kept your healing skill up wich healed for XX HP per second!

    tada you almost couldn't die

    ps; i do believe that got nerfed rather soon tho
    Warrior, getting my face smashed in because I love it

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  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyre Fierceshot View Post
    Please don't try convince Tackhisis that the game will work without tanks etc, I'd rather not have his stupid kind in GW2.
    Discussing the points he/she is bring up is about more than just trying to convince them. It also provides more information about the game for those that may have had similar questions about it or for those that may have had some doubts on how it would work out. So even if someone like Tackhisis was only trolling, and I am not saying that they are, then they are causing more information about the game to get out that there may have been over looked before. So it is helpful in the long run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrno View Post
    i remember tanking on my elementalist. :P
    buying cheapest gear get that thing that lowers your HP with 50

    and you sat at 55hp (inc low for GW)
    Then you specced into E/Mo and you had a talent wich made you not get hit for more then 10% i believe. so you only got hit by 5.5hp max and you kept your healing skill up wich healed for XX HP per second!

    tada you almost couldn't die

    ps; i do believe that got nerfed rather soon tho
    That was not tanking, that was a farming build. It required to constantly be hit to maintain the costs of the abilities. That meant that you had to solo rather than play with a group. Though there were some duo builds, the other person had to stay back so as to not be attacked. Also, the more creatures hitting you per second, the more healing that was required so you could be killed from pure damage. The original version was pretty much killed early on though bastard version still lives on and is the one everyone knows of.

    Interrupts, knock-downs, or enchantment removals would kill anyone going 55 rather quickly. It is because the build is so fragile, that it was never viable for PvP or a lot of the areas in the game.
    Last edited by Snowy; 2011-04-28 at 10:41 AM.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    As for what Mid said about "tank" spec, the most prominent ones were W/ Me Signet Warriors that used skills that brought their health and mitigation up incredibly high (highest I've heard of was about 1000 hp or so which was major in a game that had everyone's max level health at 480) and had like one attack skill (a signet attack that caused damage based on the number of signets you had on cooldown).
    Actually the only tanks that existed endgame were elementalists and assassins . Getting your health up was the one thing you could do to make sure to never get hit by any mob. Endgame tanking in gw1 was bodyblocking with an invinci build. So it is not the best example here. Midgame on the other hand showed that you don't need a dedicated tank. But gw1 pve had many flaws and is not at all comparable to what they want to do in gw2. So again, not the best example.

  10. #210
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrno View Post
    i remember tanking on my elementalist. :P
    buying cheapest gear get that thing that lowers your HP with 50

    and you sat at 55hp (inc low for GW)
    Then you specced into E/Mo and you had a talent wich made you not get hit for more then 10% i believe. so you only got hit by 5.5hp max and you kept your healing skill up wich healed for XX HP per second!

    tada you almost couldn't die

    ps; i do believe that got nerfed rather soon tho
    Perma-Sin's win better.

    And no it didn't, 55 Monk's still work, but they gave a few mobs in UW the ability to remove enchantments (i.e. protective spirit, aka that spell that only allows you to take no more than 10% of your max health) so that 55 monk's couldn't just solo farm UW for Ectos and gear...

    Double Ranger Traps w/ Famine was sexy as hell though...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beetlejuice View Post
    Actually the only tanks that existed endgame were elementalists and assassins . Getting your health up was the one thing you could do to make sure to never get hit by any mob. Endgame tanking in gw1 was bodyblocking with an invinci build. So it is not the best example here. Midgame on the other hand showed that you don't need a dedicated tank. But gw1 pve had many flaws and is not at all comparable to what they want to do in gw2. So again, not the best example.
    I did a tank-ish build with a W/E as well, I basically just supped up it's energy and used Armor of Earth, Obsidian Armor, and a ward or two, I was slow as hell but I could soak pretty much any Spiker/ Nuker.

    There were a lot of possibilities in Guild Wars 1 for sure though, so anything's possible.
    Last edited by Blznsmri; 2011-04-28 at 10:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by SW:TOR
    Jokerseven - Kinetic Combat Shadow - Praxeum - Canderous Ordo
    Ce'lia - Combat Sentinel - Praxeum - Canderous Ordo
    Sentinel PVE Basics for the two Specs that matter

  11. #211
    Pandaren Monk Chrno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowy View Post
    That was not tanking, that was a farming build. It required to constantly be hit to maintain the costs of the abilities. That meant that you had to solo rather than play with a group. Though there were some duo builds, the other person had to stay back so as to not be attacked. Also, the more creatures hitting you per second, the more healing that was required so you could be killed from pure damage.

    Interrupts, knock-downs, enchantment removals, or armor ignoring damage would kill anyone going 55 rather quickly.
    a tank for is a person/class/spec who is soaking the damage.
    yes it was a spec used for farming for gold but that doesn't mean you wern't actually tanking stuff

    that being said it was a build that made elementalist being able to tank in a few cases ^^
    Warrior, getting my face smashed in because I love it

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  12. #212
    Deleted
    Anyone from EU want to run through the Factions/Nightfall campains?

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyre Fierceshot View Post
    Please don't try convince Tackhisis that the game will work without tanks etc, I'd rather not have his stupid kind in GW2.
    supposedly tackhisis is a girl. So I'd rather not have her whiny presence clogging up the GW2 game or forums. "But I want to be the tank!! you can't play the game without a tank!! boo hoo sob sob."

    Personally the idea of having no tanks I find brilliant. Logically it makes much more sense this way and anyone who does pvp would understand this. I don't go hitting on a tank class when I see the squishy healer close by healing him. I CC the tank and switch targets. All you do is not allow the boss to have one shot abilities and it becomes a much more interesting fight sharing aggro.

    GW2 just keeps on sounding better and better.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrno View Post
    a tank for is a person/class/spec who is soaking the damage.
    yes it was a spec used for farming for gold but that doesn't mean you wern't actually tanking stuff

    that being said it was a build that made elementalist being able to tank in a few cases ^^
    Then by that definition, healers are also tanks. After all, they can soak up damage while healing themselves back up.

  15. #215
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    I already pre-ordered the game :P

  16. #216
    Field Marshal m3x's Avatar
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    Kinda doubth its gonna be any good in the end since areanet doesnt release any new content often from what i remember from 3-4 years ago when i played the crap.
    Basicly no monthly fee = barely any new content until an expansion hits ages down the line after the game have gone stale.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3x View Post
    Kinda doubth its gonna be any good in the end since areanet doesnt release any new content often from what i remember from 3-4 years ago when i played the crap.
    Basicly no monthly fee = barely any new content until an expansion hits ages down the line after the game have gone stale.
    Prime example of WoW minded player. Blizzard themselves have said they don't need a monthly fee to run the game the same as what they have been doing. Anet gives new content without the expansions, which are only about a year apart each time.

    No monthly fee does not equal no content.

  18. #218
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    WoW patches are coming out very very very slowly (we had 9 months of ICC and now we've got 6 months of the same content and still no major content patch).

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by m3x View Post
    Kinda doubth its gonna be any good in the end since areanet doesnt release any new content often from what i remember from 3-4 years ago when i played the crap.
    Basicly no monthly fee = barely any new content until an expansion hits ages down the line after the game have gone stale.
    Guild Wars: Prophecies was released on April 28, 2005. They released, for free, Sorrow's Furnace on September 07, 2005. That is less than 5 months for a large update. A little more than 7 months later Guild Wars: Factions came out on April 28, 2006 with Guild Wars: Nightfall being October 27, 2006 which is 6 months later. Hard mode came out April 19, 2007. Because of the decision to make Guild Wars 2, the next campaign was canceled and they made an actual expansion which came out August 31, 2007. During all of that time, there were multiple monthly updates.

    So then, are you saying a monthly fee is needed to get regular content updates? Lets use WoW: Cataclysm since it is well known. (This isn't a WoW vs GW, it's about the monthly fee statement claiming that a monthly fee is needed for regular content updates) Basically $15 dollars a month for just shy of 5 months to get 4.1 which has very little content in it and no new raid tier. So that means you spent just shy of $75 for the little bit of content 4.1. That is a lot of time and money for a small content update that the monthly fee gave you.

    --> So no, a no monthly fee does not mean that there is barely any new content updates. ArenaNet showed that a no monthly fee won't interfere with content updates. What does interfere with content updates is when the majority of the staff go to make another game while leaving about 5 people or so to run the previous one. Those handful of people still update it monthly and add new content every couple of months.

    Again, the above is NOT a WoW vs GW but rather a debate on if a monthly fee is needed for regular content updates or not.
    Last edited by Snowy; 2011-04-28 at 12:08 PM.

  20. #220
    Bloodsail Admiral Tholl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    And you wasting your time preaching that something will work omitting a little detail, how it would work.

    Just put yourself in boss' cockpit and compare how would you act and what AI does, and realise why the tanks are always needed.

    On unrelated note, Tackhisis is usually considered to be her.
    However, it is supposed to be spelled Takhisis.

    On topic, tanks are NOT needed in a MMO. As stated before, why would a super smart monster or person completely ignore the caster in the back keeping everyone healed up? The fact that they DO ignore said players in any MMO is stupid. Bosses should be beating on everyone equally, and ALL players should be helping to keep everyone alive and not taking a ton of dmg.

    That will make encounters more complex, well thought out, better planned, and more fun.
    We are WARRIORS man! If we can't make it bleed, we will sure as hell dent the f%^ck out of it!

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