Guild Wars 2: The One Thread

[Shaani]

Anet are not very good system designers. They are terrible, for lack of a better word, actually.

At least they have the courage to try out new things (which is a very rare trait in the gaming business these days). Of course things go wrong if boundaries are being tested.
Sometimes an idea sounds great on paper, so they try it. It only turns out later that it doesn't work as intended. So of course they will revision or entirely abandon it (which is better than doing nothing at all).

Yes, they did some bad calls in the past, but ArenaNet is trying to look forward, and willing to take a risk. For that alone they deserve respect.
Calling them terrible system designers just doesn't do them justice.

[Well]

Could I get some feedback on how is the game going on now? I'd particularly like to know about PvP. I remember that at the time there used to be a stupid elementalist build where you would simply port to the enemy and one-shot them pretty much. Is that still a thing? Are there still one-shots in the game? Is the pvp balance rather ok?

[Meledelion]

I remember that at the time there used to be a stupid elementalist build where you would simply port to the enemy and one-shot them pretty much. Is that still a thing? Are there still one-shots in the game? Is the pvp balance rather ok?

This was never the case, you're referring to a gimmick build which used earth 5 as s/d ele with blink to insta kill someone, the thing is that one dodge was the only thing you needed to avoid it (and it has a huge tell), so no it's not a thing because it never was.

One shots don't exist for the rest.

For general PvP info check out: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post31614522

and http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...9#post31571189

[Well]

This was never the case, you're referring to a gimmick build which used earth 5 as s/d ele with blink to insta kill someone, the thing is that one dodge was the only thing you needed to avoid it (and it has a huge tell), so no it's not a thing because it never was.

One shots don't exist for the rest.

For general PvP info check out: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post31614522

and http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...9#post31571189

Yes, maybe one dodge was enough or not, but that matters not. If someone is able to one-shot like that build did, it's simply stupid and disgusting for me. Thanks for clearing that out though. Much appreciated. I'd also like more people's feedback on the issue as well :-)

[Fencers]

At least they have the courage to try out new things (which is a very rare trait in the gaming business these days).

I believe this statement is wrong on both accounts. The gaming industry is quite willing as a whole to "try out new things". The degree to which can vary between titles. But one can indeed have Saint's Row 4, Call of Duty, Child of Light and The Talos Principle on the same top sellers chart.

Within in the MMORPG genre, many developers add and/or overhaul secondary and primary systems. Anet are not alone in that regard, though they are among the few that overhaul their secondary systems due to functionality or dissatisfaction routinely.

For that alone they deserve respect.

They are merely a game development studio. This does not require any respect.

Calling them terrible system designers just doesn't do them justice.

This is not actually what I said. Specifically I said their [secondary] systems were historically poor and necessitated revision. Thus they are poor at [secondary] system design- which historically has a precedent of continual iteration in active live development.

As above, game developers are not owed any justice for their work beyond purchase. Which I say having worked in game development myself. It is simply not necessary that one attach any honor to the science of developing commercial video games for profit.

[nevermore]

My guess is they'll make the traits less information-dense (and confusing) and more straight-to-the-point.

I mean stuff like "This trait line is for Greatswords and Axes. It increases your direct damage" and so on.
Also I'd imagine they'll use more visual and less textual cues. Currently the trait system is a text overload that results in awful usability.

[zito]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW...6DEgLi6dMjhA-e

Pretty much where I am at with my build atm. I decided to go confusion boon support after much internal debating. Gear I haven't gotten to but I am decided my last 10 points. I can get perma vigor for my group and I or 20% more mind wrack damage. Now the vigor won't do much for me because I have 2 extra blocks so I am leaning towards the 20% damage bonus and in a group vigor literally comes to everyone else naturally.

[Terahertz]

So after quitting WoW I've been considering playing GW2 again. Logged in to do some random stuff and made a new character (still having major difficulties looking for a class to play since the biggest downfall of GW2 for me is the uninteresting classes). First thing I noticed: WHERE IS THE STORYLINE QUESTS? It used to be so you'd follow a whole storyline in the started zone, but now there's only an indicator guiding me to numerous places and hearts.

Also, which class is currently the most versatile/hardest while viable class in PvP/WvW? I'm looking into engineer as I've tried it before, but back then it felt like I was hitting like a wet noodle. I also looked into warrior, but warrior doesn't really seem like it has a large toolkit. Tried Thief but I dislike the extremely squishiness of Thief. How is Mesmer doing? I checked the "what class to play" guide and it mentioned they're rather squishy but has a diverse toolkit. I tested it in the PvP lobby on dummies but it felt like my only damage source were the illusions.

[Fencers]

First thing I noticed: WHERE IS THE STORYLINE QUESTS? It used to be so you'd follow a whole storyline in the started zone, but now there's only an indicator guiding me to numerous places and hearts.

This has been more spread out than before. I forgot when the change was made.

Also, which class is currently the most versatile/hardest while viable class in PvP/WvW?

Perhaps Elementalist. It has the most buttons to press, so to speak. Or at the least is the most busy of the classes. And highly regarded in many aspects of the game.

[Terahertz]

I tried Elementalist as well but simply did not like it. Also because it's considered one of the squishiest classes out there. I was thinking between Engi, Warrior, Mesmer and potentially either Thief or Ranger. It's difficult to decide because of how different classes are compared to WoW heh.

I just don't want to be extremely squishy and hit like a wet noodle/too easily shut down. I learned that by playing WW monk in WoW >_>

[zito]

The most versitile is Ele/Warrior with Ele having more support options and warrior with weapon options.

[Fencers]

I tried Elementalist as well but simply did not like it. Also because it's considered one of the squishiest classes out there. I was thinking between Engi, Warrior, Mesmer and potentially either Thief or Ranger. It's difficult to decide because of how different classes are compared to WoW heh.

I just don't want to be extremely squishy and hit like a wet noodle/too easily shut down. I learned that by playing WW monk in WoW >_>

To be honest, I do not find your perception of "squishiness" valid in the context of GW2. None of the classes are "squishy". Most of the attacks in GW2 that are against the player are designed to be dodged, interrupted, reflected, counter-attacked, parried, side-step or healed through. Which every single class has access to.

Getting hit in GW2 is not necessarily an inevitability. The basic premise of combat major is judicious usage of avoidance and counters.

One can literally play PVE for hours and not have their health globe drop below 75% due to the strength of avoidance in GW2. The most powerful skill in the game, the MOST powerful, is circle strafing.

[Terahertz]

Hey, I only mentioned squishiness because the "What class should I play?" guide listed certain classes being squishier than others. I know about the avoidance and stuff, but having certain abilities that help you stay alive as well as baseline toughness/armor and high HP also play a big role. >_>

[Fencers]

Hey, I only mentioned squishiness because the "What class should I play?" guide listed certain classes being squishier than others. I know about the avoidance and stuff, but having certain abilities that help you stay alive as well as baseline toughness/armor and high HP also play a big role. >_>

Not really to be honest. The relative "defense" of a Warrior or Guardian in Berserk gear (arguably the only gear composition that matters majorly) is the same as Thief or Elementalist.

Every class is [in a very broad sense] the same in GW2; they are all "DPS" for the most part. With sheer offensive strength & avoidance being the most powerful forms of defense in the context of GW2's mechanics for combat.

I play a Warrior and Ranger mostly and there is little to no effective difference in "defense" between those classes and my Elementalist, Engineer or Mesmer. All of which I play in melee almost exclusively as I dislike ranged combat in general. It's all the same, honestly.

Guides are also wholly inappropriate to the design of GW2. It is an action game, in the Arcade sense. It is very, very likely your perception here is being colored by expectation and preconceptions of other gameplay systems based on your usage of language.

[zito]

There is a very very slight difference in armor but it's so pointless it might as well might not even be there. An ele can be tanky and a guardian can be squishy as fuck.

Heavy, medium, light might as well not even exist.

[Fencers]

Heavy, medium, light might as well not even exist.

In the operation of the game's armor distinction represents a metaphor for the primary engagement method of the respective classes. Heavy armor classes tend to have more melee orientated capabilities, medium armor a balanced mix of range and melee capabilities and light armor more range orientated capabilities.

This is fairly obvious and expressed in gameplay as the primary metaphor of the armor classification in Guild Wars 2.

[Meledelion]

Also, which class is currently the most versatile/hardest while viable class in PvP/WvW? I'm looking into engineer as I've tried it before, but back then it felt like I was hitting like a wet noodle. I also looked into warrior, but warrior doesn't really seem like it has a large toolkit. Tried Thief but I dislike the extremely squishiness of Thief. How is Mesmer doing? I checked the "what class to play" guide and it mentioned they're rather squishy but has a diverse toolkit. I tested it in the PvP lobby on dummies but it felt like my only damage source were the illusions.

I'll go over some professions in regards to difficulty, do note that the overall difficulty of GW2 PvP comes from reading the map and has little to nothing to do with what profession you play. While at the highest levels of play winning your 1v1s is important a good way of ensuring you win is knowing where everybody is so you don't run into a (hard-)counter. The second thing which you need to know (and has nothing to do with your chosen profession) is how combofields/finishers work

Elementalist:
Is one of the easiest classes to master, but relatively hard to start with initially. People consider knowing 20 skills instead of 5 as being a lot harder but it really isn't since in having so many skills (in comparison) there's a lot of wiggle room to play bad.
The rule of thumb is quite simple, attunement switch every 10s to make sure your sigil of battle Procs. To start a fight with quite some pressure you use Burning Speed>Dragon's Breath>Fire Grab> Air Attunement> auto attack.

From there you start thinking about what your skills do, if you want to keep up pressure but need some defence use Shocking Aura/Lightning Touch. If pressure got to your target use Updraft to interrupt.

If you need to go defensive (this is before you have to heal usually) and you've already used updraft/shocking aura you can either simply run away with ride the lightning (if you think you won't win and aren't defending a point) or swap to Earth? The defensive part from earth comes from the protection you get automatically but then it's all about kiting, while using your slows or even knockdown from Earthquake.

So you are now in heal mode and swapped to water attunement, which passively heals you but also gave you regeneration. Cleansing Wave is a great heal and usually your go to and not your actual heal skill (default nr 6). Additionally you have lots of access to chill so again kiting is important.

The good thing about elementalist is that it can do everything quite well(roaming/bunkering/supporting). All though if you are in a team fight you usually are relatively easy to take down so be ready for guerrilla tactics (depending on your team build, if there are other supporters it becomes very easy to stay alive).

TLDR: Fire for burst damage, Air for sustained damage, Earth for bunkering, Water for healing.

Engineer:
Similar to Elementalist in that it has more than the 5 basic skills which looks daunting at first but really isn't that hard to manage due to the "rotation" you'll be following. The "best" build at the moment has 15 skills to master but seeing as the trick to engineer is making sure the right skills benefit from your Sigil of Intelligence the depth/complexity isn't that high. Engineer's game-plan is similar to Elementalist in that both use celestial with sigil of battle and runes that buff strength duration to build up strength. Engineer is an outlast profession where you pressure your foe until you can guarantee a spike kill through a Sigil Of intelligence + Jump shot/Blunderbuss/Pry bar hit into the grenade Fx skill(I think class skill is the official term for those).

Engineer is a very controlling fighter since it has access to a good block, 3 interrupts, lots of slowing skills and one immobilize the trump card by far is the elite skill which can totally decimate enemies.

The difficulty in playing engineer is knowing how to keep yourself alive since your heal skill isn't all that great(numbers wise) so you rely on making use of your combo skills.

It's possible to just stand on high ground and spam grenades to victory in case you get overwhelmed though.

In comparison to Elementalist think of the basic (rifle skills) as your direct damage/cc (much like Air Attunement), Grenade kit as your condition part and Tool belt kit as your Earth Attunement.

Mesmer:
Is probably the hardest profession to play as a beginner and to master. Mesmer is extremely squishy if you get caught in the open, so the idea is to simply not be caught or be able to get away once you screw up. The idea is to poke an opponent to a certain HP level and then use your shatter to burst them down. Straight away this is an issue for many people since your opponent won't just stand still and it's very obvious that you're shattering if your clones start running towards your foe, resulting in an easy dodge of your biggest damage burst. To counter this many people play sword/x so they get an immobilise/daze or just mantra of distraction. The problem is that in doing so you give up a lot of your strengths.

The main setup (to poke your adversary) is Staff 5 + Staff 3 and GS 3+2. The trick to landing shatters is through either using F2 to fake out your opponent but then you need to know how you get up clones quickly to use F1 to shatter again (not really a problem once you get the hang of it) so a better way is to make sure your enemy just used his evades. Staff 5 and GS 3 are great for this, so if possible try to get a chain up that goes Staff 5>3>GS 3>2 > F1 , with illusion generating skills woven in if need be. You can combine these strategies and instead of using F2 to you can use F3 which will daze and add vulnerability making your burst combo a lot stronger.

The defensive part comes from F4, which is incredibly strong but on a long CD so save this for the real oh shit moments. Just damaging from range is also a viable option especially in maps with lots of vertical play where you can teleport up and knock back enemies once they reach you.
This smoothly brings us to the defensive side of mesmer. In general staff is your defensive set, Chaos Storm will give you Swiftness/Aegis (at random) similarly Chaos Armor will give you Protection/Regeneration/Swiftness (at random). This should be a clue that kiting is going to be a big part of staying alive, to help you kite you have Phase Retreat which teleports you away from your target (so when running away from your opponent while he's running after you, you'll blink forward, but if you're fighting face to face you'll blink backwards), the trick here is that you can abuse this skill for vertical advantages and you need to. The problem is that this can get buggy and sometimes the teleport doesn't work (even though it should).

Nothing about this seems all that hard but the problem is that you need to kite and keep up pressure since you don't really have the defensive arsenal available to you like Elementalist/Engineer/...

Ranger:
The most popular build by far is power ranger, which is also one of the most brain dead and useless builds to play. The idea is to use longbow from a save range (usually has some vertical abuse with it) and just rain down hell on a squishy foe through using Barrage + Rapid Fire. The problem is that you can't really do much in a 1v2 (not even stall for back up) and if there's no vertical advantage to use, you'll have a bad time. There's also the fact that many classes run blocks which completely negate all your damage.

So in stead of going with that build I'll talk about the best (according to me ) build which is the survival condition ranger. Ranger is a bit less squishy than Thief/Mesmer but far squishier than Engineer/Elementalist, it's honestly somewhere in the middle of squishyness. You do have one immunity (works like a block but isn't channeled) but the 80s CD means you won't get to use it much. The step in point for ranger is really low skill wise due to your main damage coming from bleeding which is quite easy to apply, the difficulty comes from applying "burst" conditions (>20 stacks of bleeding) and then covering them up with conditions that don't really matter so they don't get removed. You'll also want to keep up Poison as much as possible, which means that you'll often want to be in melee range.

Contrary to most builds listed so far your slows aren't used for defense but for offense. You need to slow your enemy so that you can flank him and put up bleeding with shortbow, they of course still can be used defensively but if you look at muddy terrain it's a great way to get a lot of bleeds up quickly and bait out the condition removal after which you swap to Axe to use skills 2 and 5 for an easy 8 stacks guaranteed, combined with Entangle this is usually the end of the fight.

The basic damage setup is Fear (preferably while interrupting your enemy)>muddy terrain>shortbow spam>poison volley>entangle>splitblade>crippling talon>stalker's strike.

The issues with ranger is that you don't have any come-back mechanics. If you get CC'd and you mismanaged your stunbreaker you are guaranteed to die, so the goal is to use your evades (quick shot/stalker's strike) to avoid CC/big damage, the hard part here is that you also need to time them to keep up your pressure so it's constantly a tug of war, the same goes for muddy terrain.
It's easy to spot a good ranger vs a bad ranger just in how they manage their dodges and conditions, since all your damage comes from bleeding it's important to always cover it with another condition (chill/cripple/immobilize).

Another thing to note is pet management, pets die easily so keeping them alive requires some forethought. A big part of your damage comes (indirectly) from your pet due to their KD/Immobilise/Poison so you have to know when to use your healing skill just to keep your pet alive which can be a tough call to make.

Thief:
Thief's difficulty comes from knowing when to engage fights and when to roam. This means you have to know the enemies' positions, your team's health and fighting capabilities. The general idea behind thief is to just decap whatever point the enemy doesn't have much defense on and then quickly rejoining the team fight.

Many people play thief horribly simply because they are only focused on winning the 1v1 and getting the point, which isn't important if your ally on close lost his 1v1 and thus you lost close.

Sadly the current best build for thief isn't the one which requires most skill, this arguably doesn't matter much since the idea is the same for both builds (described before) but it's a bit sad that the mastery of your skills isn't important. The idea is to pistol 5 + dagger two to deal decent damage and gain stealth so you can do backstab which does a lot of damage, once the target is low enough you just spam 2 to finish of your foe. In team fights your role is to pick off weak targets, usually this is the focused target but it's possible that a ranger nuking from top is easier to kill. You then use stealth to stomp foes/rez team members.

While thief is squishy, their survivability comes from being able to disengage fights. Just using stealth can be enough to get away from a nasty situation but you also have teleport available to use the map to your advantage and get out of range or you can chain the teleports and get to the other side of the map much faster than your foes.

Warrior:
This again is my opinion (and one which metabattle.com seems to disagree with) but by far the best build out there is zerker Hambow. The reason I think metabattle doesn't like it is due to the fact that the mastery and step in point for this build have a much higher ceiling/step in point than other (similar) warrior builds. Just using the celestial hambow gives a lot more leeway since you have more health, healing and toughness and the soldier variant gives a lot more health and toughness.

As a warrior it's your job to help your team deal damage or help them survive. Your stuns/immobilizes/cripples can set up kills easily or prevent them, this means that you have to be aware of your team's health and your opponent's. Many people mistakingly focus on only one part of the skillset so they either focus on keeping people alive resulting in you eventually losing due to pressure or they go Leroy mode while your mesmer is being tunneled down by a thief.

Depending on which variant you use, you either kill through pressure (celestial/soldier) or burst (zerker), the setup is similar but zerker can just blow people up with the right setup, which is why it's stronger than the others IMO.

The playstyle for 1v1s is similar to mesmer in that you first poke your enemy a bit to make them use their evades. F1 bow is great for this just like Fan of Fire or just swapping a lot due to the high hits you get of with constant poison up time. Once you go for the kill the setup is this (preferably with high adrenaline) F1 bow>Pin down>Arcing Shot>F1 Hammer>Fierce Blow>Staggering Blow>BackBreaker>Hammer Shock and your target should die somewhere in the middle of that, if not back to bow.

Most people playing warrior have issues managing their defensive CD's making it so they simply can't play with berserker since they die too quickly. As said before kiting is your friend and you can keep up great amounts of pressure while hanging back due to the enormous F1 fire field from bow + all the immobilise/slows/stuns. Never use your stances when you're at full health and try to save Berserker's stance for when an enemy is about to spam Conditions on you (think entangle, swapping to grenades etc...).

The overall strength of warrior is just how versatile the class is. You can put out insane pressure or peel like mad. You're a good point defender but can also roam reasonably well (you're no match for thief/ele since they are far faster).
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For more in depth guides check out http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki

[Terahertz]

That's an absolutely amazing post, Meledelion. I was trying stuff out myself on the dummies in the PvP lobby and also watched a GW2 streamer who did reasonably well with many classes. I noticed him playing with 3 different stances on his warrior as well as greatsword + longbow (presumably what you were talking about), which I don't really get because the adrenaline finishers don't really seem that strong for those 2 and it didn't really seem like he had much utility/CC going on either.

I'll be checking out the website you linked. The current classes I'm planning to look into are ele, mesmer, engi and warrior. I hope there are multiple builds viable for those classes :P

[Meledelion]

No, GS is one of the worst weapons on warrior (again IMO) I was talking about Hambow but instead of using the traditional Celestial/Soldier amulet you use Berserker.

The issue with Greatsword is that you rely on people to be bad for you to actually do well, additionally you can't really go defensive so you have to disengage once you get in a pickle, which is OK for the super mobile classes like Elementalist and Thief but (gs) warrior only has Rush and if your opponent can put up any sort of slow you're screwed.

From metabattle: "GS can be outplayed if your enemy saves teleports/condi cleanses/blocks for your burst." which anyone with some experience of course does. Heck you can add interrupts to that list.

You saw this build and I was talking about Hambow

Here's a clip of me playing Hambow a year ago (so it's not the same but similar) quite terribly but meh, it's something

[Svifnymr]

Not really to be honest. The relative "defense" of a Warrior or Guardian in Berserk gear (arguably the only gear composition that matters majorly) is the same as Thief or Elementalist.

For people learning the game, Warrior/necro have a lot more health than thief/guardian/elementalist. Armor rating may not be a huge difference, but warrior still has an edge over an elementalist.

Granted there's a lot of other factors, but health always helps while learning.