Cho'gall 10N help

[smagus02]

Hello all. I'm from a small 10 man guild that's a good group of guys but aren't always top notch players. As of right now we are just starting on the three final bosses in the normal raids, starting with Cho'gall. Yet we are constantly dying to the same thing. From what I've seen and everything I've gathered talking with raiders from more successful guilds, it doesn't seem to be an issue with the mechanics, but with the dps. However I voice my opinion and we keep going in and doing it over and over again with the Raid Leaders changing everything except what I feel is the problem. Now if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But either way my guildies and I need some advice on this fight. Here is a link to our latest logs:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-21tbf1g93gyx8k0o/

Just a quick overview, by the time the fifth add comes out, boss is still around 33ish% or above. Adds are handled beautifully until that point when we just get overrun. Everyone has pretty good situational awareness so we are able to adapt during the fight to snafu's. One note about the logs, we have a guilded Boomkin that is usually there instead of the one in our logs and he can usually pull about 13k DPS.

[Christoffer1989]

If all ppl in the raid knows the fight, try run with 2 healers instead of 3? that way you can earn alot of time and get to last phase faster (:
Else only thing is to step up dps I guess?

If your getting overruned by adds all time, either aoe on adds is noobish or dps isnt enough in total

[ice216]

If the 5th add is spawning at 33% you might wanna try to just push cho the last 8% before the fester blood(being slow is a wipe, but it can buy you some time since he despawns the big add that is alive but not the small ones) by just tanking the mob and having everyone stay on cho. The tank needs to kick obviously.

[Deleted]

When our 4th add comes we are usually at 26-28% and when it comes we start moving Cho while the add tank picks the add up(DPS complety ignores that add).

Here is our logs from last kill if you want to compare: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/y5oyp...?s=5594&e=6050
And yes your raid dps is to low, and as Christoffer pointed out running with only 2 healers might be worth a shot. That's how we did him the first time as our gear wernt great so dps was wank

[Alka]

Anything over 4 pools of adds is lack of DPS. We normally run 3 pools of adds, then as the 4th add spawns we push Cho'gall into P2 before the pool adds pop.

We've had most of our top DPS leave and we're now having an issue with DPS as well. This is not a melee friendly encounter.

[Papalenin]

Hello all. I'm from a small 10 man guild that's a good group of guys but aren't always top notch players. As of right now we are just starting on the three final bosses in the normal raids, starting with Cho'gall. Yet we are constantly dying to the same thing. From what I've seen and everything I've gathered talking with raiders from more successful guilds, it doesn't seem to be an issue with the mechanics, but with the dps. However I voice my opinion and we keep going in and doing it over and over again with the Raid Leaders changing everything except what I feel is the problem. Now if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But either way my guildies and I need some advice on this fight. Here is a link to our latest logs:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-21tbf1g93gyx8k0o/

Just a quick overview, by the time the fifth add comes out, boss is still around 33ish% or above. Adds are handled beautifully until that point when we just get overrun. Everyone has pretty good situational awareness so we are able to adapt during the fight to snafu's. One note about the logs, we have a guilded Boomkin that is usually there instead of the one in our logs and he can usually pull about 13k DPS.

If you're hitting 5 adds and the boss is only at 33%, that's a big problem. This is what we do. When the first add is spawned, we have only 2 dps kill the add, and 1 of those dps goes back to the boss. The second dps we had on the add solo's the first wave of slimes. On the second add, we have both dps stay over there and handle the add and second wave. On the third add we have 2 dps take down the add, and 2 more dps come over and help take the 3rd wave down. When the forth add spawns, we have the tank pick up the add and the dps burns chogall into phase 2. It works beautifully for us and we're far from top notch players. I would suggest trying something like that.

If that's similar to what you guys are doing/the adds don't die quick enough, then its an issue with your dps. Make sure they read up on stat weights, rotations, etc from this website, and get them to perform better and chogall will go down with ease. If your healers are beast, you can probably 2 heal it, and that'll help with the dps too.

And when phase 2 is about to start, make sure you tank chogall on the throne. It's a cheese strat, but it's a lot easier to cleave/aoe the adds down than to deal with them 1 at a time. And make sure people take no corruption. It's super easy to avoid and nobody should have any corruption going into phase 2.

Oh, and when you do get to phase 2, make sure your dps are spread out in a line behind chogall so that nobody is in front of them. This will buy you a lot of time as people won't be puking on each other with corrupting sickness. As for healing, make sure healers aren't wasting mana in phase 1, as your dps seems to be low so phase 2 will take a little longer. When everybody is grouped up on chogall in phase 1, the only healing going on is me (the shaman) keeping healing rain down, druid using wild growth on CD when chogall does is big aoe, pally does his holy radiance, and we keep ES/hots on the tank and let the pally do the rest of the tank healing. This allows us to have a ton of mana going into phase 2 and it makes it considerably easier to heal imo.

[smagus02]

Yeah we currently run with a resto druid, resto shaman and holy priest. I was thinking of suggesting the shaman go enh since he has the highest dps spec, but since I know the fight is ranged favor, maybe having the druid go boomie would be better. Any suggestions?

Edit:
Papalenin, that's exactly what we are doing.

[oatmealpoet]

Your Paladin: Aludren, and Mage: Alyni are doing horrible at dodging Corrupting Crash. On a few attempts they got hit 5+ times. That number should be 0 on every attempt unless they absolutely cant avoid it (worshipped in a crash). You need to fix that right away. Also, it seems like Depravity wasn't getting interrupted every time...a few attempts it looks like 3+ got thru. That needs to be at 0 as well.

Other then that, your DPS seems fine. It just people tunneling and taking easily avoidable damage.

[Rédempteur]

We had trouble doing this too, but our problem was the up time on Cho'gall himself. We have our top melee stand on him all fight, and it's the only fight where i go boomkin(so might as well get your druid go balance), because i can rape wave 1 and 2 almost by myself, as shrooms are affected by solar eclipse, coupled with a typhoon and starfall(even when in lunar, adds must go down) it's golden. I ask a hunter's help for 2nd and 3rd wave, just because that gives me more time on cho'gall.

Question is, do you manage to kill the adherent before fester blood? Yes? Fine. No? Get better dps. At that point all that matters is having the less uptime possible on small adds. We also try to stack them all up so the adds all spawn in the same place, using either a bear taunt(or dps pally or warr whichever you have around) or distracting shot at 5% to make the adherent dies on the previous pool.

That way we manage to get cho'gall to around 32% by the time 4th add spawns, but we forget him and push him to his final phase. Make sure your OT and 2nd melee(especially on 2nd and 4th) interrupt depravity(even in a 3 heals setup these can kill you over time)

[Bigkountry]

From the look of you logs, your dps seem to have low active times. Meaning they are sitting around doing nothing for brief periods of time. Having a dps at ~50% uptime is absolutely atrocious. For this kill you need EVERYONE to be ~90% uptime to ensure get him to phase 2 quicker. 5 adds = bad. More dps/uptime means you will only get 4 adds which = less slimes, less strain on healer mana, less of a risk of blood corruption. You should be reaching phase 2 with everyone sub20 blood corruption if you are managing interrupts correctly.

I notice your DK is frost. Seeing as you have a boomkin, fire mage, and a surv hunter he should be unholy instead of playing subpar dps. You should leave your shaman DK (who should be unholy at this point) on the boss to maximize their uptime. If the 3 most OP ranged classes cant kill big adds/slimes fast enough they're doing it wrong.

Ask yourself this.

-do you have an interrupt rotation for big adds?
-do your raiders have mouseover macros for breaking worships quickly (scattershot, avenger's shield, silencing shot, mindfreeze, etc?)
-do you space out your mushrooms/freezing traps for better slime control?
-do you bring the boss to the wall before p2 for better tentacle grouping? (helps you spread diseases, drop dnd, avenger's shield, combustion, interrupt easier, etc)

If you answer yes to all of these then you are closer to killing this boss

[lightscreen]

my guild has some sexy dps in it and we reach P2 on chogal by the 4th add. you issue of hitting the 5th add and not having him past 30% is simply a dps issue. the fact is if more than 5 adds are spawned the fester blood adds WILL overrun you and WILL wipe you. the main challenge of this fight is avoding unwanted corruption before P2 and having the dps to burn him down before he hits his soft enrage.

[Cleisthanes]

a great group comp makes this fight much easier.

when i downed this it was on my 2nd or 3rd attempt, we used a boomkin to take the first set of bloods by himself with his mushroom slow+ typhoon pushback and hurricane+slow

a fire mage which used his dragons breath to interupt everyone on worship or priest to psychic scream when the mage was worshipped ( mage also helps with adds)

as somone mentioned earlier avoiding things like shadow crashes will mitigate damage and allow you to 2 heal this encounter. as someone mentioned it is often times viable to push chogall into phase 2 while a big add is still up so that you dont get bloods.

finally and seemingly most importantly when cho gall gets to hes last phase get him on the throne and dps down those adds. we wiped at 1% and 2% because no one interupted the adds which at the lower %'s we found best to just interupt the adds casting their channled spell rather than dps'ing them.

GL and remember with ZA/ZG theres plenty loots to get your dps that extra edge they may need

[Nijada]

As others have suggested if you are getting more that 3 waves of adds then you are lacking the DPS. We usually push him to last phase while the 3rd big add is up and before the little adds spawn, however sometimes we have to take out the 3rd add / wave if it looks like we wont make the push to the final phase in time.

We also run with 2 healers for this encounter, myself a moonkin takes care of the 2/3 waves of mini adds, assisted by a hunter. Get your moonkin to pre lay mushrooms at the bottom of the stairs (or w/e you kill the large adds), get him to try and be in solar eclipse. With this & starfall + moon(sun)fire spam + typhoon he can almost handle the 1st 2 waves alone. This allows for more active dps on the boss and easier positioning for worship.

Good luck, it's a fun fight!

[Audauri]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si7r4fT8i70

This is a video of my ten man's first Cho'gall kill. We run with 2 healers for this fight, a holy pally and resto shaman, having our resto druid go boomkin. Typhoon is nice if the bloods are getting to close to us. We have found not only in our main run, but on our very under-geared alts, that we take less damage with 2 healers. Mostly cause everything dies much faster.
Our tanks pull Cho'gall to the middle, with all of us stacked under his butt. We have a warrior tank, and we stack this way so he can shock wave us when the worships come out and hit anyone who has it. The first tank swap comes out at the same time as the first adherent. We have our feral cat on the add for interrupts, and the tank kites him to the far edge of the room to have max distance between us and the bloods when they spawn. Then the 2 hunters lay our traps, and blow up the bloods when they pop. This cycle is repeated. We usually get three waves of adds, and the forth adherent (if we get one at all) is ignored as we push Cho'gall into phase 2.

Just some tips to things that were problems in the past for us:
-make sure people are not taking avoidable damage, i.e. getting hit by bloods or shadow crashes. This increases your corrupted blood debuff by a large amount, I believe it is ten per crash. In my vid, I get hit by one shadow crash, cause I wasn't paying attention, and you can see my meter skyrocket. I get hit by one blood as well, and throughout the rest of the fight I have a significantly higher corruption than everyone else. Pointing out my baddie moments as a warning to others! If bloods get close, run. You want to go into phase 2 with as little corrupted blood as possible as everyone gets 2 blood per second, and this continues until Cho'gall is dead or you are. If people are going into phase 2 with 50 corrupted blood or higher, BAD.
-Make sure you interrupt worships. Letting a raiding member get off a full worship off not only gives them more corruption, but causes Cho'gall to do more damage to the poor tank. I think every class has a way to get rid of worship.
-make sure your healers dispell players when they get 25 corruption. The debuff they get increases their corruption gained until it is dispelled.

Tips for phase 2 when you get there (yay!):
-WORMS are first priority. Interupt and kill them, then Cho'gall.
-Spread out in a circle around Cho'gall so you don't puke on each other. When one reaches 50 corrupted blood, you will randomly start puking, and if you puke on a player, their corruption goes up.

Have fun and I hope you guys kill him! It's is a rather satisfying kill :P Good luck!

[evolve]

Your dps is definitely a bit low, I only have logs up for the last 3 kills we've had on Cho'gall, but we average 90k dps on the boss for those kills (lowest 87k dps) and we 3 heal it with 5 dps and 2 tanks. With around 85k dps you can push the boss into phase 2 just after the 4th add spawns (meaning you don't have to kill the add).

The highest you guys had was 81k averaged 71k. You could probably down the boss with around 80k dps without too much trouble, so getting the dps to be consistent while at the same time not messing up the fight mechanics should really be your goal right now.

Right now even if you were able to push the boss into phase 2 with 70k dps, you'll end up still having issues with getting the boss down quick enough without your healers going OOM.

Some tips:

1) If anyone dies early and you don't have a bres, wipe it, no point in trying down 1 person.
2) If anyone messes up and goes above 50 stacks of corruption before phase 2 you should basically wipe it.
3) Save heroism for the healers in phase 2, not the dps.