Best Tanks in Cata

[rabbimojo]

Sadly, there are very few active/up-to-date places to find information like the OP is seeking. As can be seen in this thread, people are typically biased in one way or another.

For awhile during the beta, there were some very thorough mathematical threads on the official tank role forums comparing expected sustained damage for each tank, and those helped drive a lot of the late-beta balance decisions. I haven't seen a similar comparison done in some time, likely because most people aren't familiar with the mechanical nuances of each tank.

Personally, I think the OP should try each tank and figure out which playstyle appeals to him or her. Whatever the state of balance might be right now has little bearing on what it will be in 4.2, 4.3, or any other patch point. Your ability to keep your head on straight night in and night out is influenced heavily by your enjoyment of the class, and is far more important than minor survivability deltas between each tank spec.

[Gunslinger]

Wow. You don't even know the basics. Challenging Shout is not and has never been a taunt. It doesn't even remotely function like a taunt.

How you even play a warrior eludes me....

Challenging Shout
5 Rage -Instant cast - 3 min cooldown - Forces all enemies within 10 yards to focus attacks on you for 6 sec.

BUFF:
Challenging Shout -Taunted.
6 seconds remaining

EffectApply Aura: Taunt
Radius: 10 yards

Edit: It's hard to take you seriously now when you don't know what your abilities do. =\

[xotrem]

I already said how it was superior. DK battle rez requires 50 runic power, something a DK will not usually have unless they plan for it or save it up over a few seconds, and it returns players to 20% health whereas a glyphed druid battle rez returns players to 100% health. Why didn't you pay attention to that? Why would you ask a question that was both already answered and patently obvious?

And no, it is a very fair comparison. Even then, druid tanks can very easily battle rez while tanking.

Sorry, your bias was screaming and I just didn't hear the answer. That being said, neither is superior. I got a brez from a DK last night and it worked fine. I would ask a question that was patently obviously answered by someone who had no clue what he was talking about. And a bear tank likely won't be glyphed for battle rez. So try again.

Ane no, it isn't a very fair comparison. As pointed out, druid tanks have to change form to do it. Why would you give an answer that had already been disproven? Enquiring minds want to know.

[Darsithis]

I'm not sure where you're getting your information. My battle shout is 4 minutes. Yours is 3. My cooldown is 1 minute and I use it every cooldown, for the most part. Ergo, mine will always replace yours because it lasts longer. Shaman lasts as long as the totem is on the ground. It will replace both.

The warrior debuff to attack speed is an AOE ability. It effects every mob with one button press. You have to use pestilence to spread around yours.

The warrior debuff to attack power is also AOE and lasts longer than scarlet fever. I'm not sure why you mentioned blood plague over scarlet fever?

Yours is 1 minute longer - but the duration means nothing. A good tank will have these refreshed (by the way, mine is a 20 second cooldown) long before they expire, especially in a raid with multiple DK's and warriors.

My debuffs are built into the tanking style - I'm supposed to spread disease. Ergo...debuffs in the diseases. You're not. You don't have to use those shouts. You can, but you don't have to.

[SilkforCalde]

Wow, you're a complete egomaniac, aren't you? Did I not sum up what you said in your quote, only in caps to give life to your unneeded rage?

All tank classes are easy to play. If you think they're hard, it's because you're not very good at it. The difficulty comes entirely from what you do with it. I've saved my raid countless times with a well timed WoG or LOH to our other tank when the healers were having trouble, or a quick Hand of Salv/Sacri/Prot/Freedom to get someone out of a situation.



He's talking about it's ability to taunt 3 targets at once. I have no idea what kind of warrior you are - hopefully a good one from the way you boast constantly - but given your lack of knowledge on Paladins, I'd have to guess you were...lacking as one.

Oh, and I'll have to ask you to refrain from insulting people that disagree with you. That's against the rules, don't you know =)

I have played all four tank classes. Paladin is by far the most boring because it's all automated. You don't need to apply debuffs to the boss, your attacks already do that. You don't need to think about which abilities to use, your rotation is very rigid and is very no-brainer, which is the DIRECT opposite of death knight. One reason why DK tanking is at least 10x as fun as paladin tanking. Paladin isn't reactive, you just stand in one spot and do your silly no-brainer rotation and fall asleep because there's nothing to it.

I think it's rather odd that you'd ask me to not insult other people in the same post where you call me an egomaniac. Hypocrisy much?

And your last statement about my lack of knowledge about paladins is hilarious. I have a paladin tank. I know what their abilities do. My point stands. You just said that I didn't understand Righteous Defense because YOU don't understand what I am saying.

[rabbimojo]

How you even play a warrior eludes me....
Challenging Shout
5 Rage -Instant cast - 3 min cooldown - Forces all enemies within 10 yards to focus attacks on you for 6 sec.

BUFF:
Challenging Shout -Taunted.
6 seconds remaining

EffectApply Aura: Taunt
Radius: 10 yards

It's not really an important discussion for either of you, heh. "Taunt" is an overloaded term - some think it refers to, precisely, the permanent threat transfer aspect embodied by the typical single-target "taunts", such as Taunt and Dark Command.

Others use it to refer to anything that forces an enemy to switch targets.

Yawn.

[SilkforCalde]

Yours is 1 minute longer - but the duration means nothing. A good tank will have these refreshed (by the way, mine is a 20 second cooldown) long before they expire, especially in a raid with multiple DK's and warriors.

My debuffs are built into the tanking style - I'm supposed to spread disease. Ergo...debuffs in the diseases. You're not. You don't have to use those shouts. You can, but you don't have to.

Oh, no no no. A warrior tank has to use Demo Shout. It is the best physical damage reduction debuff in the game. If you don't have a prot warrior, it is best for a dps warrior to apply it. Same with Thunder clap. Even if there is a DK applying frost fever, you still need to apply thunderclap because frost fever can fall off and you can never let the boss attack without the 20% attack speed debuff. Those are ABSOLUTELY abilities that prot warriors have to use or they are bad prot warriors.

DKs don't need diseases to tank btw. You can easily tank completely disease free, assuming another player is debuffing the boss.

The duration of battle shout simply means that your HoW will never show up because it is always getting overwritten.

---------- Post added 2011-04-28 at 01:53 AM ----------

How you even play a warrior eludes me....

Challenging Shout
5 Rage -Instant cast - 3 min cooldown - Forces all enemies within 10 yards to focus attacks on you for 6 sec.

BUFF:
Challenging Shout -Taunted.
6 seconds remaining

EffectApply Aura: Taunt
Radius: 10 yards

Edit: It's hard to take you seriously now when you don't know what your abilities do. =\

You really don't know the basics. Wow. A taunt == an ability that sets you to the top of the threat meter. A fixate == an ability that forces you the mob to attack you. Challenging shout is a fixate. It forces the mobs to attack you for the duration but it has no effect on threat, as soon as the effect is finished then the mobs will attack someone else unless you generated enough threat during the duration to gain the top of the threat meter. Taunt, however, forces the mob to attack you AND sets your threat to the top of the threat meter.

---------- Post added 2011-04-28 at 01:54 AM ----------

Sorry, your bias was screaming and I just didn't hear the answer. That being said, neither is superior. I got a brez from a DK last night and it worked fine. I would ask a question that was patently obviously answered by someone who had no clue what he was talking about. And a bear tank likely won't be glyphed for battle rez. So try again.

Ane no, it isn't a very fair comparison. As pointed out, druid tanks have to change form to do it. Why would you give an answer that had already been disproven? Enquiring minds want to know.

We're talking about battle rez. Not about druid tanks battle rezzing. Battle rez. You should have a moonkin or resto druid, preferably both. Even in 10 man.

[Zuluhead]

Pali=DK > Warrior > Druid

Pali and DKs have more threat and dmg, more heals and dmg CDs, more magic resistances and Buffs. Warriors are not bad, but they deffinatly are lacking.

[Gunslinger]

It's not really an important discussion for either of you, heh. "Taunt" is an overloaded term - some think it refers to, precisely, the permanent threat transfer aspect embodied by the typical single-target "taunts", such as Taunt and Dark Command.

Others use it to refer to anything that forces an enemy to switch targets.

Yawn.

Here's a tidbit you may want to know.

When warrior's Taunt, druid's Growl, paladin's Righteous Defense/Hand of Reckoning, or death knight's Dark Command is used, three things happen:

1. A short-lived debuff is applied to the mob, which forces it to attack the taunting character.
2. The threat level of the character who used the taunting ability is immediately raised to be equal to the threat level of whoever currently has aggro, if the taunting character's threat is lower.
3. The taunting character gains aggro. (This feature was added to taunting abilities soon after Burning Crusade came out.)

This only applies to Taunt, Growl, Hand of Reckoning and Righteous Defense. Mocking Blow, Challenging Shout and Challenging Roar do force mobs to attack you (#1), but do not match threat or transfer aggro. Mocking Blow generates a pre-defined amount of threat; Challenging Shout and Challenging Roar do not generate any threat at all!

I was mentioning to SilkforCalde that paladins were more of a stationary tank having control over the battlefield without requiring him to move around.

[Dessan]

That's not a valid reason. You don't solo raid bosses and the fact that DKs can self heal is not a positive in their favor in a raid because they HAVE to be able to do that since they take so much more damage than other tanks.

I'd say DKs are easily and far away the worst tanks in game atm. They have no purpose. They have no useful utility outside of brez and druid brez is infinitely superior.

What? lol... That second sentence is completely stupid.

Also they have no purpose? They're excellent MT's, being able to heal on fights where your healer may be struggling is awesome. especially if you play a DK well and are getting off stupidly big heals and not just spamming DS when it's off CD.

DKs are fun, Pallys are easy, Warriors are all rounders, and I've not seen a single Bear Tank since Cata hit.

[SilkforCalde]

Here's a tidbit you may want to know.

When warrior's Taunt, druid's Growl, paladin's Righteous Defense/Hand of Reckoning, or death knight's Dark Command is used, three things happen:

1. A short-lived debuff is applied to the mob, which forces it to attack the taunting character.
2. The threat level of the character who used the taunting ability is immediately raised to be equal to the threat level of whoever currently has aggro, if the taunting character's threat is lower.
3. The taunting character gains aggro. (This feature was added to taunting abilities soon after Burning Crusade came out.)

This only applies to Taunt, Growl, Hand of Reckoning and Righteous Defense. Mocking Blow, Challenging Shout and Challenging Roar do force mobs to attack you (#1), but do not match threat or transfer aggro. Mocking Blow generates a pre-defined amount of threat; Challenging Shout and Challenging Roar do not generate any threat at all!

I was mentioning to SilkforCalde that paladins were more of a stationary tank having control over the battlefield without requiring him to move around.

I love how you just copied and pasted something that proves that Challenging Shout isn't a taunt. That's too rich.

[Lightfist]

I have played all four tank classes. Paladin is by far the most boring because it's all automated. You don't need to apply debuffs to the boss, your attacks already do that. You don't need to think about which abilities to use, your rotation is very rigid and is very no-brainer, which is the DIRECT opposite of death knight. One reason why DK tanking is at least 10x as fun as paladin tanking. Paladin isn't reactive, you just stand in one spot and do your silly no-brainer rotation and fall asleep because there's nothing to it.

Did you not see what I just said? Are you skimming posts? Selective reading? I have to choose to cast WoG, on myself or someone else. I have to choose to use SoR, or wait an extra second for a potential Sacred Duty proc. Then I have to choose which group CDs to use and on whom, a choice that often determines whether my raid wipes or succeeds.

Sorry to mess with your silly sense of entitlement for playing a 'hard' class, though.

I think it's rather odd that you'd ask me to not insult other people in the same post where you call me an egomaniac. Hypocrisy much?

Do you deny you have a big ego? How important must you think yourself to tell other people what is and is not fun? There is no ruleset on fun, no measurement...

And your last statement about my lack of knowledge about paladins is hilarious. I have a paladin tank. I know what their abilities do. My point stands. You just said that I didn't understand Righteous Defense because YOU don't understand what I am saying.

It only becomes more and more sad as you claim to play a Paladin - it only makes your deficiencies or lack of effort that much clearer. Your arguments come off as shallow at best and completely asinine at worst. Quit before it gets worse.

[rabbimojo]

I have played all four tank classes. Paladin is by far the most boring because it's all automated. You don't need to apply debuffs to the boss, your attacks already do that. You don't need to think about which abilities to use, your rotation is very rigid and is very no-brainer, which is the DIRECT opposite of death knight. One reason why DK tanking is at least 10x as fun as paladin tanking. Paladin isn't reactive, you just stand in one spot and do your silly no-brainer rotation and fall asleep because there's nothing to it. [...]

Boring/enjoyable are not intrinsic properties of a class. They are properties of your experience of that class, and therefore entirely subjective.

For me and many others, the "rotations" of each tank are all equally simple. Maybe a paladin's rotation is 1 "fun unit", and a warrior's is 2, but that doesn't mean a whole lot on a scale that might go to 10 or 100. :P

I find most of my enjoyment in the activity of the encounter itself and trying to utilize what tools I have as best I can. I enjoy all 4 tanks in different ways, because they each have their own rhythm.

That this back-and-forth (which I have joined unsolicited) has gone on so long is silly. How hard is it for people to simply identify opinions and not make absolute statements about them? It squelches a lot of arguments.

[Pum]

I think we can all agree that SilkforCalde should be ignored.

[SilkforCalde]

It only becomes more and more sad as you claim to play a Paladin - it only makes your deficiencies or lack of effort that much clearer. Your arguments come off as shallow at best and completely asinine at worst. Quit before it gets worse.

You're just babbling.

Here's my paladin:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...fuligin/simple

[Sathanis]

Roll warrior - It's fun.

[SilkforCalde]

I think we can all agree that SilkforCalde should be ignored.

Then ignore me. What's the point in making a post like that?

[Greivence]

Vanilla vibe? From a healer stand point Warriors take 40% less damage then DKs. Followed by prots/Ferals (no idea since 4.1) I always hate healing Paper tanks (aka DKs)

Not dissing your friend DK tanks but they're "all" bad if thats the vibe you get, I've tanked raid bosses on 25man normals 15-20% of their life after the healers died / went oom on my DK, and i generally always take equal or less damage than the warrior tanks in my guild

[Lightfist]

You're just babbling.

Here's my paladin:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...fuligin/simple

I'm babbling because you have no counter?

Am I supposed to be impressed by your Paladin? You could link an 85 in full Heroic BiS gear and it still wouldn't change the fact that your understanding of the class is rudimentary at best.

---------- Post added 2011-04-27 at 10:02 PM ----------

Then ignore me. What's the point in making a post like that?

What's the point in trying to dictate what's fun for other people?

[zabraba]

SilkforCalde has been trolling the shit out of everybody lately. Just ignore him. I'm kinda disappointed the mods haven't done anything about him yet. It's getting kinda ridiculous.