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  1. #41
    [QUOTE=Restraint;11262319]first, my armory http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...iwinner/simple

    I'm having a weird experience with this boss. Tuesday, I healed it twice fine. But since then I have not been able to do it. I have this weird paranoid feeling it's been stealth nerfed, but I could just be sucking.



    Oathanvil:

    It's not just you guy I have healed to Cho'Gall the last boss encounter in Bastion of Twig light and I have the same feelings as you do about the two new dungeons.
    I have completed both of them in total on the 26th and 29th last month and since last night at around 8pm est all the healing I do is crap!

    We tried to do BWD and cleared the adds all on first pull, I had top heals in the raid on every pull and the 4 or 5 attempts on Magy the Worm, but it wasn't enough. I was pouring Flashheal on the TANK as my only real option and throwing raid wide heals out at the same time and could just not keep him up! we got Old Magy the worm chained down twice in each attempt then something stupid would happen and wipe us.

    So as a raid we broke up into two groups and headed over to Baradin Hold and then we find we have issues using MASS dispel on my Priest and the Shamy cant dispel either and all the dps and tanks are dying standing right in the middle of the dispels?

    I fired one dispel right on top of the tank and it missed and cleansed the whole raid and I had to fire a second one on him to cleanse him? My goodness firing 2 and three dispels and all that mana because the Dispels are not working?

    Also in BWD we noticed that single cast ability's like "renew" you would normally and being glyphed fire those off every 0.5 seconds but you might have to mash the button like 2 or 3 times or several times on one raid member to get it to stick? and when it did it looked like it would last less then half the time it was supposed to.

    Raid leader called it and said there is to many bugs in the game since the patch ran 4.1.0 and felt it was very discouraging that all that crap made it into the live servers after being tested for months on the PTR server.

    So from what I observed in guild, Ventrilo from other class healers and experienced myself I would say it's just not you that cant get the throughput on target enough to keep anything alive.

    and yes everyone has a 30 vent ping and a 40ms in game connection no lag no one has outdated curse client plug-ins running raid leader made sure everyone turned al that off before they went in.

    It's just total Horse Hockey what's going on. It sure make a person wonder what Stealth Nerfing is going on especially after you get the Completion awards for both the new Cata Dungeons under your belt.

    I tried to respec a little to see if it helps with through-put on tank healing I might as well be standing on a cliff facing the wind and trying to shoot mana into the ocean! It is of course flying right back into my face!

    And Buggy lol the one boss was a Giant gnome or something instead of a Troll? the tank says hey? anyone seen this guy before ? It's supposed to be a troll boss and I am like ya 5 runs through and never seen him ?? and when we did kill him! roflol on his dying breath the Boss stumbles falls runs, charges me and 1 shot kills me the healer.
    You got to either laugh or start to take it personnel at that point.
    Last edited by Oathanvil; 2011-05-01 at 08:24 PM.

  2. #42
    There's some rumors that the fight is occasionally bugged.
    Anyways, the fight is very dependant on dps not being bad , since they have to:

    1. spread out to avoid the debuff
    2. clump up under the lightning cloud
    3. switch to the white birds
    4. kill a few of the brown ones as well (optional with good gear)

    If they don't do that avoidable damage gets so high that it can't be healed anymore when not overgearing the content and it looks like the healers fault while in reality it is dps being bad.

    There is a reason why i had queue time on my tank alt today, healers don't seem to like that instance.

  3. #43
    Just did this again today. 13k HPS with 5k absorbs per second. Still couldn't keep anyone alive. Yeah the mechanics are easy enough but jesus the damage output in this fight is just absurd.

  4. #44
    Oh, but wait:

    When someone is wounded, we want healers to consider whether to use a slow, efficient heal (because they aren’t in immediate threat of dying) or a fast, expensive heal (because they are). That’s called triage, and it was notably missing from the Lich King healing environment. We think triage will make healing more fun. We’re making this change not to make healers sad by nerfing them, but to make healers happy by making the game more fun for them.
    You see, there are lots of people who "aren't in immediate threat of dying", so you should only use the slow heals on them.

    LOL.

    ---------- Post added 2011-05-02 at 10:47 AM ----------

    Oh, and don't forget this, a real gem from Ghostcrawler:

    In Cataclysm, large health pools will keep most players up for a few hits. That gives you the opportunity to decide if someone needs a little heal or a big heal, or a slow heal or a fast heal, or if they are likely to live long enough for a powerful spell to finish its cooldown. If you use the wrong spell, the target is unlikely to die immediately, but over time you'll realize that your mana has really started to dwindle and the boss has a large health bar still left.

    I've said this before, but I remember when tanking back in vanilla, a priest would call out on Vent, announcing that he had a big Greater Heal being cast.
    HAHAHAHAHAHA.

  5. #45
    I recently went healing this on my priest, been as both disc and holy, putting out a varying 12-14k average hps and i just find it's not enough on this boss. Yes i dispel the debuff, keep pom on cd and spam poh when needed. But it just feels like i dont have enough globals to keep people up.

    I feel i may of been in slightly ignorant groups that were not focusing on keeping the smal birds dead, but the fight just seems so over the top for healers.

    Any pointers as to what else i could do or is it just a case of replacing the last few bits of dps gear i have and shouting at the dps to clear small birds?

    Also ending up oom very fast having to use flash heals to keep people up

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...bearpig/simple

    please be constructive i have only healed on my shaman before and this is my first week of priest healing

    also to note, im acually happy healing pretty much all other encounters in the new dungeons i just cant work around this yet.

  6. #46
    This fight is terrible. I can heal everything else in these new heroics.
    And I dont know what to do

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by taymatt View Post
    Oh, but wait:
    You see, there are lots of people who "aren't in immediate threat of dying", so you should only use the slow heals on them.
    I still use Heal as Holy. I use Renew as a recovery tool, or let HoTs and splash healing top people off. Or when I'm raid healing as Discipline, I can use Greater Heal as a single target output on people too, when Penance is on cooldown. We don't spam Flash Heal, or Circle of Healing without a cooldown. So overall, it's pretty right.

    Oh, and don't forget this, a real gem from Ghostcrawler:
    If you use the wrong spell, the target is unlikely to die immediately, but over time you'll realize that your mana has really started to dwindle and the boss has a large health bar still left.
    I found that sentence to be the breaking point really in what was showing Priests not only on beta, but early live builds just how bad they were. The rest of his quote fits pretty nicely with how we transitioned from Wrath to Cataclysm healing, even though as we gear up we're starting to move back into that mentality.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  8. #48
    Moderator Uggorthaholy's Avatar
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    I will say that it is obvious the fight is in need of a nerf, as the hotfixes today included such a nerf (range reduced to 5 yds on shock, cast every 12s instead of 5s).

    It also has been noted (can't remember exactly where I saw it earlier, I'm at work) that his shock, even after dispelled, was not correctly fading from targets, so the damage was much higher than it needed to be.

    All in all, starting today, this boss should become significantly easier to heal (was by far my largest problem in ZA - the rest of the bosses are trivial as ilvl 350 holy)

  9. #49
    the fight was "hotfixed"
    i just did it and its a joke

  10. #50
    Honestly I find this fight much easier to heal if I simply look at the groups DPS, and choose to let the worst one die - and if there's not a clear "worst" then ta-ta melee, sucks to be you in cata again (This is of course if the DPS aren't able to down the birds fast enough - if you do get even one quality ranged DPS who can knock out birds quickly, this isn't necessary). Cuts down on the chaining of the debuff, wasting GCDs and cast time on a baddie, etc - there's no enrage timer.

    I know this isn't going to cut it for a timed run, but hey, you don't pug timed runs anyways.

    EDIT: Oh I see they hotfixed it. Should make it nice and easy.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    I still use Heal as Holy. I use Renew as a recovery tool, or let HoTs and splash healing top people off. Or when I'm raid healing as Discipline, I can use Greater Heal as a single target output on people too, when Penance is on cooldown. We don't spam Flash Heal, or Circle of Healing without a cooldown. So overall, it's pretty right.

    I found that sentence to be the breaking point really in what was showing Priests not only on beta, but early live builds just how bad they were. The rest of his quote fits pretty nicely with how we transitioned from Wrath to Cataclysm healing, even though as we gear up we're starting to move back into that mentality.
    Honestly, those quotes from ghostcrawler are pretty much nuts. I mean really. Calling out and coordinating heals on vent? The entire raid would be dead.

    It's true that now that dps, tanks, and heals are starting to outgear the 5 man dungeons, you can pretty much just use your slow heals. But two things: (1) the time when people are taking more damage as a percentage of health and therefore the time when they tend to need lots of fast heals, is when they have just hit the gear level for that dungeon; (2) when talking about raids, this whole "oh we can wait around and cast slow heals, nobody is going to die" is still false.

    Ghostcrawler's claim that cata healing is like vanilla healing (you can take your time and cast slow heals, the damage doesn't come very fast) was and is still totally false. There is just as much spamming as in Wrath, it's just that there is less mana now. It's only become comfortable as we hit insanely high amounts of spirit; i.e., we start to "outgear" the raid bosses.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by taymatt View Post
    Honestly, those quotes from ghostcrawler are pretty much nuts. I mean really. Calling out and coordinating heals on vent? The entire raid would be dead.

    It's true that now that dps, tanks, and heals are starting to outgear the 5 man dungeons, you can pretty much just use your slow heals. But two things: (1) the time when people are taking more damage as a percentage of health and therefore the time when they tend to need lots of fast heals, is when they have just hit the gear level for that dungeon; (2) when talking about raids, this whole "oh we can wait around and cast slow heals, nobody is going to die" is still false.

    Ghostcrawler's claim that cata healing is like vanilla healing (you can take your time and cast slow heals, the damage doesn't come very fast) was and is still totally false. There is just as much spamming as in Wrath, it's just that there is less mana now. It's only become comfortable as we hit insanely high amounts of spirit; i.e., we start to "outgear" the raid bosses.
    Calling Healing out on Vent: This was a reference back to the fact that things like HealCommLib 1.0 were not mainstream. You lost the context there. What used to happen was you would have multiple Priests, in Vanilla, casting Heal (Rank 4) on a tank. With Meditation being what it was (15% unless you had the t2 set bonus), they'd want to drop the 5-second Rule to see significant mana gains, so occasionally one Priest would cast a Greater, and its output would let one or more other Priests start /stopcasting, so they can recharge a little bit.

    He also never said that this was to happen now, he just says he "remembers it". Good try on that one, though.

    Regarding the outgearing: They weren't outgearing it in greens and blues. Heal was still my top spellcast in those 5 mans. Congrats at riding the nerf wave of the dungeons, the ridiculous buff of Holy Concentration, overgearing of it now with people in raid gear, and allowing all of the above to compensate for the complete idiots who don't know how to play. I take it ZA and ZG are proving a little too difficult to PuG for you?

    (1) You use Flash Heal more to compensate for lack of knowledge in an encounter (people eating avoidable damage), or to deal with sudden spikes, but it's never your "go to" spell. As you learn (not outgear) an encounter, you can cut down on those avoidable damage, and the spikes can be dealt with by pre-casting where possible.
    (2) No one's talking about "waiting around" and doing nothing. How much of your healing is Flash Heal? Really. More than 60% of my healing is either a 2-second cast (Heal, Greater Heal, Prayer of Healing), or a Heal over Time effect taking 6-14 seconds (Echo of Light, Prayer glyph, Renew).

    Ghostcrawler's claim that we shift away from fast spells seems to be pretty well considered. People take significant damage, and while we're effectively trying to keep them up, we aren't spamming Flash Heal to get them there. We are worried that they'll die, so we aren't sitting on our asses, but we know they're not getting Globalled, so we have time to adjust accordingly.

    I mean, Ghostcrawler's made some seriously laughable mistakes, but those posts aren't really measures of that, but I'm sorry that you're having trouble understanding this concept, and projecting it onto him.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Mana issues? if so tell people that 16k dps is MIN req to join your group, kick them if not.
    Yeah because if you suck you just demand everyone else to carry you amirite?

    10-13k hps is quite low, I'm usually pulling 16-22k hps on that fight depending on how much people spread and kill the small birds.

    ---------- Post added 2011-05-03 at 03:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mastertroll View Post
    the fight was "hotfixed"
    i just did it and its a joke
    Really? well that's pathetic. It was one of the few fun fights in there as healer (ie: the only fight you didn't fall asleep while doing).

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