Why is Jin'do so hard for people to understand?

[Deleted]

To be fair I think jindo will be the first boss to be nerfed from both instances.. He should be called the Pugbreaker.. I was in a pretty decent pug, we did whole instance with 0 wipes, all pulled 10k+ DPK but jindo just destroyed us..
And it wasn't the problem with understanding the fight - everyone got the idea on the first try, but for some reason adds were everwhelming us, or troll decided to jump exactly on healer when he was forced to move a bit..
The problem with this fight is not about being complex or whatever but to the fact it's one big pure chaos. Being unable to communicate with other players, tell them that they're out of healer range or whatever really makes it harder..
Plus having bad group compsition makes it harder as well.. I was there once in mele only group (gj dungeon finder..) and it was nearly impossible to do it..

What I'd like to see is a small nerf to the number of ghosts and shadowbolts he spawns in phase 2 along with a buff to other bosses in ZG.

ZG is the most uneven instance in the game IMHO.. All bosses but the Pugbreaker are free loot.. Pugbreaker might be a nightmare if you have bad comp..

Do what I do as tank, and tell your healer (and group in general) to stay close to you, don't run around a lot, and then you can really easily pull spirits off the healer with AOE moves. When the spirits are one at a time they can just be dpsed down by the ranged no problem, but when a big bunch come at once it's usually best to group up and let them be tanked till they're dead, then continue.

It's all just about control. I've not had any big problems with pugs on that boss, I just tell everyone stick close to me, kill the big add after first bodyslam, it becomes a very easygoing fight.

[roguetank]

I may be alone in this but has anyone else noticed a trend in all the threads about the dificulty in the new heroics? Gotta say I'm one happy camper to see that the majority of talk going on isn't QQ about how this or that needs a nerf but rather that the player base as a whole has a lot of retards in it. I love that blizz is taking WoW in a direction like this. Force ppl to play smarter and see the overall quality of game play (over time of course) improve. Over all the game isn't hard you're (points at a baddie) just a moron.

Couldn't agree more.

I'm really enjoying the inability to faceroll through these heroics. Sure they can be easy in a fully coordinated epic group, but what isn't at that point?

[Deleted]

Did both new instances with guildies, all dps's pulled 20k on bosses, tank on 12k average. ZA timed run with one wipe and still managed to beat the sacrifice timer and got mount . No probs in ZG either exept the last boss since we we're clueless about what to do lol, and that took 1 wipe to make sence of the encounter -.-

and we're average players from average guild -.-

Warrior tank, pala, warrior and bm hunter with BL as deeps and drood healer.

And i bloody hell enjoyed those instance !

[lukerocks]

Runecapeman you've been spoiled by only doing guild runs. Just stop trying to sound smart in here and solo queue for either of these dungeons ppl ITT are qq'ing about before you type another message.

also WTS Amani Battle Bear 25k on Illidan - Alliance. pst

[Promethieus]

I say bad dps should be kicked, you say because there is no enrage timer they're allowed to be bad?

Whoa, whoa here!

Please find where I said that unacceptable damage output is okay and quote me on it. I never said it was okay to bring the group down anywhere. Besides, you're kinda overreacting over 5 man heroics a bit don't you think?

[Deleted]

WHyyyyyy can't people just stand where they are supposed to break the chains, its not that hard.

I had a guild group go with me to CtA in ZG yesterday, none of them had done ZG before and I was able to explain the boss fight mechanics they were doing wrong mid fight. One shotted most bosses including Jin'do, was quite refreshing

I do agree however, for the most part it is perplexing how people don't get the mechanics. I had to explain the mechanics 5 times the other day when I was healing it(ie. 4 wipes from people not standing in the right spot, not nuking chains, nuking the big elites or letting the ghosts gank me). Fortunately popping ghost wolf as a resto shaman helps avoid damage from the ghosts.

[Promethieus]

Runecapeman you've been spoiled by only doing guild runs. Just stop trying to sound smart in here and solo queue for either of these dungeons ppl ITT are qq'ing about before you type another message.

also WTS Amani Battle Bear 25k on Illidan - Alliance. pst

I pug my heroics unless a guildy needs some help, a group is being put together, or if we still need to complete the guild challenges for the week. Besides, your point is moot.

I really don't mind wiping to a boss for a long period of time. I enjoy helping other people progress and learn new mechanics/encounters.

WHyyyyyy can't people just stand where they are supposed to break the chains, its not that hard.

I've gone off topic a bit here but what I want to say is: be patient! Explain stuff to people if they don't understand. Be nice to people and they will be more open to wanting to change.

[Deleted]

Because the vast majority of people playing this game are absolutely retarded; I'm sure you've noticed how they can't even manage to type sentences that make sense.

well played sir.

[Sackman]

Do guild runs, being able to communicate via TS or vent really helps.

Sorry this made me laugh.

Fights are easy, "see blue flame, move from it", "stack on chains and nuke after leap", "kill spirits", "stand in the green shield".

If that needs vent and over explanation.... oh dear.

Oh in that respect, the only challenge I had before was asking why it was taking DPS longer to kill spirits than me. (and im in 318-346, with the crafted belt/shield)

[roguetank]

Whoa, whoa here!

Please find where I said that unacceptable damage output is okay and quote me on it. I never said it was okay to bring the group down anywhere. Besides, you're kinda overreacting over 5 man heroics a bit don't you think?

Just things like "If thry're staying alive and putting damage out, why care?" or saying theres no enrage timer so dps doesn't "need" to be anywhere.

If the dps isn't up to par, you ARE holding the group back, no matter what the excuse.

No.. i'm not overreacting. If you're queing for a troll heroic, with the proper gear level, and can't pull an acceptable level of dps, then you deserve to be kicked.

As much as everyone else in the group loves getting free loot for players who can't carry their own weight, i don't like it.

If you can't pull an acceptable amount of dps, there are 1 of 2 issues.
a)You don't have the gear to be in the heroic you qued for and cheated the systed. Solution? Kick them, they don't deserve to be there.
b) You don't know how to play your class. Solution? Kick them, they need to know the basics of the class before they buy them...

If its a hardware issue, i understand, and feel bad for you having to cut your run short, but not bad enough to let your sub par performance slow the rest of the group.

[Deleted]

Do guild runs, being able to communicate via TS or vent really helps.

Even with TS with the guild is enough to make some people want to rage quit i did last night.

[Deleted]

Although Jin'Do is challenging, I find that the Eagle boss in Zul'Aman is the most challenging. Leaves no margin for error whatsoever. Tried to heal this with my resto shaman, it most likely was due to people doing stuff wrong(the only thing I can think of was the bird not dying fast enough. But also the debuff on the people that get spammed there. The damage taken was just insane. I was doing 15k hps without overhealing and still did not manage to keep everyone alive. I got oom just after most people died. Anyone got any pointers there?

[Irisel]

screw ZG. ZA is soooo much easier, and it gives a mount

[Deleted]

"Why is Jin'do so hard for people to understand?"

Well, to be fair, it's because relatively-speaking it's harder to explain than most people are now used to.

Disclaimers:
a) I do not think it should be made easier. I like the difficulty as it it.
b) I'm going to make sweeping statements about "PuG"ers and people using the LFD tool. I know there are some good competent players, that know the encounters well, that use the LFD tool - possibly you yourself if you are reading this. But statistically speaking, the chances of all 4 other random people in your group being of the same skill/knowledge level just a few days after the instances have been available, is extremely remote.
c) I'm going to pluck some numbers out of my backside - they are completely made-up.

Since the release of the LFD tool, people have become conditioned to expecting to press the button, AoE zerg about for 15-20 minutes, and get VP/JP at the end of it. Rinse & Repeat. Most mechanics have been fairly PuG-friendly and can be explained in a single short sentence, which you can usually type out in /p before being told to "JUST GO" or "GO GO GO".

Don't stand in fire - 80% PuG Friendly
Don't stand in small white clouds which spawn under you - 33% PuG Friendly

Stack up on something - 80% PuG Friendly
Stack up on something but move away when thingy is cast - 33% PuG Friendly

Nuke the boss - 100% PuG Friendly
Ignore the boss and nuke the adds when they appear - 60% PuG Friendly

You need to be standing on/near the shielded chain when the big add does it's body slam, but don't stand on the chains all the time otherwise you'll die from the small white clouds which spawn under you. Don't kill the big add until the shield is broken, then kill the add, then kill the chain, and also burn down the smaller adds otherwise they will destroy your healer. Then move onto the next chain. - 100% PuG LOLWUT?!

Just to re-iterate - I personally don't think it's too unjustly difficult. On the other hand, as far as PuGs / random LFD groups go, I believe that I'd probably have a hard time trying to explain phase 2 in party-chat and expect everyone to get it right first time. Let's face it, if this were actually the case then wouldn't it then logically be too easy?

TL;DR? To figure out why Jin'do is so hard for people to understand, we should have a little competition... See who can explain the tactics to phase 2 in the fewest words possible.

[Deleted]

Although Jin'Do is challenging, I find that the Eagle boss in Zul'Aman is the most challenging. Leaves no margin for error whatsoever. Tried to heal this with my resto shaman, it most likely was due to people doing stuff wrong(the only thing I can think of was the bird not dying fast enough. But also the debuff on the people that get spammed there. The damage taken was just insane. I was doing 15k hps without overhealing and still did not manage to keep everyone alive. I got oom just after most people died. Anyone got any pointers there?

I am probably wrong in saying the debuff comes from the brown birds? either way a little bit of aoe from the dps or a hunter multi shotting them all stops it alot.

[Imadraenei]

I really don't mind wiping to a boss for a long period of time. I enjoy helping other people progress and learn new mechanics/encounters.

I've gone off topic a bit here but what I want to say is: be patient! Explain stuff to people if they don't understand. Be nice to people and they will be more open to wanting to change.

I used to be like that. Then I spent two hours on the same fight with the same people telling me they understood what they did wrong, yet continuing to do the same thing over and over again (we'll use an example of running as far away from any of the three chains as digitally possible). At what point do I tell people that they are fools because someone who hasn't levelled a warrior/rogue/druid/priest/paladin past 50/30/40/20/50 knows more about playing it than the warrior/rogue/druid/priest/paladin in the group?

[Deleted]

Because people can kick, it is up to the group members if they want to kick a player doing less than 10k or not kick. It is as simple as that. There is no "low dps players should be kicked" and there is no "low dps players should be allowed to stay". It really comes to the fact that if the group is struggling, they are more likely to kick worse players no matter is it right or wrong. I think I am ok or good player and usually I don't vote kick people because I can manage a little carrying. But I usually vote kick dc:ed, afked and heavy trouble makers.

This boss was somewhat confusing, but after a wipe I knew what to do in my first run.

[NotValidAnymore]

People have absolutely no observation skills these days. The only solution is to get into a pug where people actually pay attention, or go with a guild group.

Though, the guild groups I've been in haven't been that great because there are even idiots in guilds, which made them feel like pugs.

[Deleted]

Cause most people in pugs like higher deeps. Simplez.

[Brucêbannêr]

Although Jin'Do is challenging, I find that the Eagle boss in Zul'Aman is the most challenging. Leaves no margin for error whatsoever. Tried to heal this with my resto shaman, it most likely was due to people doing stuff wrong(the only thing I can think of was the bird not dying fast enough. But also the debuff on the people that get spammed there. The damage taken was just insane. I was doing 15k hps without overhealing and still did not manage to keep everyone alive. I got oom just after most people died. Anyone got any pointers there?

Have your ranged dps kill the little birds, and dispell the debuff. Not sure if you are one of "those shammys" but yes properly speced resto shammys can dispell magic. If i hear one more shammy that is speced into it claim they can't dispell magic I'm gonna start a fire in an old folk's home.