Thread: Support TukUI!

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  1. #241
    I'm not interested in pre-built UI's, but this has got my vote. "Premium" membership on TukUI is more like a friendly donation. If Tukz changed the button to "Donate", he wouldn't have gotten any warnings etc.

  2. #242
    The Patient BongimusPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aestu View Post
    So then he's reliant on donations to pay for the expenses of mod development. Curiously no one calling for donations in this 14-page thread has yet provided a receipt proving they ever donate.
    It's not atypical to incur costs when in the business of creating something, be it a tangible product, an application, or anything else. As for the proof of donation thing, sicness summed it up fairly well I think.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Aestu View Post
    My question is valid. And the point raised in the service of whiteknighting Blizzard to the effect that premium fees on Curse doesn't give addon related services in exchange for premium fees is invalid because on their site it says they do just that.



    ---------- Post added 2011-05-01 at 07:51 PM ----------



    Businesses have revenue streams.
    But Blizzard says he can't have one.
    Reasoning invalid.

    You didn't answer my question. Again. What's your angle here and why are you so interested in this one topic and nothing else?
    Because it's of interest to him? Why are you interested in it so much?

  4. #244
    The Patient BongimusPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aestu View Post
    It's interesting to me you comment at length on this one topic and no other and write long paragraphs white knighting for Blizzard.
    And then you make a post for no other reason than to praise someone else doing so.

    Who are you and what's your angle here?
    It's interesting to me that you cannot actually contribute anything of merit to this debate, and rather insist on using irrational, emotionally-driven rhetoric to incite conflict. I'm glad, however, that you accepted my challenge, and again questioned my intentions. We've already established that I'm not white-knighting for anyone. I'm presenting my thoughts on the matter, and I will not apologize or curtail them out of not aligning with yours.

    If you really need the reassurance of a direct answer, I chose to respond with a single line to that post because it accurately summed up a position that I feel is true, and was a response to someone who was responding to my own comment. Rather than re-hash what was already nicely summed up, I chose to simply agree and move on.

    What else you got for me?

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Aestu View Post
    My question is valid. And the point raised in the service of whiteknighting Blizzard to the effect that premium fees on Curse doesn't give addon related services in exchange for premium fees is invalid because"



    ---------- Post added 2011-05-01 at 07:51 PM ----------



    Businesses have revenue streams.
    But Blizzard says he can't have one.
    Reasoning invalid.

    You didn't answer my question. Again. What's your angle here and why are you so interested in this one topic and nothing else?
    I like what the gnome said. I don't think you've changed your tone for the last 10 pages.

    Also, on topic, it seems pretty black and white. ToS breached, done. Also... Evil Corporation which you are paying to pay? If you think they are evil, stop paying and supporting third party websites. Or stop trollin Bro.

  6. #246
    The Patient Nydinia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aestu View Post
    My question is valid. And the point raised in the service of whiteknighting Blizzard to the effect that premium fees on Curse doesn't give addon related services in exchange for premium fees is invalid because on their site it says they do just that.
    The AddOn policy says "No Developer may...". I am the developer of several addons, I do not offer any premium services for a fee. Curse hosts my addons. Curse is not the author/developer of my addons. Everyone seems to be skipping that first line of the policy.

  7. #247
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Aestu;11286055]My question is valid. And the point raised in the service of whiteknighting Blizzard to the effect that premium fees on Curse doesn't give addon related services in exchange for premium fees is invalid because on their site it says they do just that.

    Quote Originally Posted by WoW TOS
    All add-ons must be distributed free of charge. Developers may not create "premium" versions of add-ons with additional for-pay features, charge money to download an add-on, charge for services related to the add-on, or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an add-on.
    Curse doesn't do this. Their services that you cited have nothing to do with the function of the add-ons themselves. Their services are not related to a specific add-on, nor do they provide any advantages with regards to add-ons.

    TukUI is doing this, by charging for a premium account, and making beta/PTR versions only available to those with premium access. That's directly forbidden, as it is clearly breaching the "require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an add-on" clause.
    Businesses have revenue streams.
    But Blizzard says he can't have one.
    Reasoning invalid.
    No, Blizzard said he cannot have a revenue stream designed to profit entirely off Blizzard's work, in the form of the add-on code and WoW itself.

    Add-on development was never intended to be a legitimate business venue, and that is why these clauses exist; to prevent that from happening. If he were intending this to be a business, and he had any education with regards to business at all, the first step is ensuring your business is actually legal.

  8. #248
    exactly what the e-mail said, he's offering a premium version for $. It's illegal, simple as that.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Aestu View Post
    My question is valid. And the point raised in the service of whiteknighting Blizzard to the effect that premium fees on Curse doesn't give addon related services in exchange for premium fees is invalid because on their site it says they do just that.
    They give legal addon related service support, whereas Tukui obviously doesn't. How can't people see the difference here? Everything Curse.com does is completely legal to Blizzard's ToS. Everything you mention is related to addons, but is completely different in aspects to providing additional features to an addon compared to additional features to SUPPORTING your addons.

    You're trying to make out Blizzard to be the bad guy when they simply wrote rules and Tuk broke them, Tuk is the one to blame here.
    Last edited by sicness; 2011-05-01 at 08:10 PM.

  10. #250
    The Patient BongimusPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aestu View Post
    Why are you so "sure" what Blizzard thinks (and why do you assume their motives are sanguine)?

    [You're also 100% wrong because beta invites were in fact transferrable provided they had not been redeemed]
    Because I'm allowed to have an opinion, and put weight behind it if I so choose. I could just as easily say "I'm sure that Aestu has nothing of merit to add to any conversation", and I could believe it because that's the opinion I have formed based off the evidence presented.

    I made no statement of fact. I didn't say "Blizzard hates when you sell beta keys. So much so that they will hunt you down in the night and kill you and your family, North Korea style."

    Now in regards to the transferrability of beta keys, I could be wrong, and if that's the case, so be it. The difference between us is that I'm not afraid to accept it and move on.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Aestu View Post
    So then he's reliant on donations to pay for the expenses of mod development. Curiously no one calling for donations in this 14-page thread has yet provided a receipt proving they ever donate.
    Your entire argument about "development costs" is tantamount to putting lipstick on a pig. First of all, tools. I was going to list all the various LUA tools the author could use to edit his mods, but then I discovered that the list was way too long. The first hit on Google for "LUA IDE"

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Lua_editors

    If the author chooses to use something like Visual Studio then that's his own choice - he is the one assuming that responsibility, and the community has no moral obligation to "support" him in that regard.

    Hosting. Oh wait, he hosts his files on GitHub - which costs him nothing because the source is open. Scratch the major source of bandwidth reduction, then. CurseForge would also work well for that, if he wanted to.

    He has a website and forums - it's not unreasonable to find reliable website hosting now that offers a terabyte worth of throughput for a month, at a rate of $20 or less per month. Case in point, I run my guild's website out of the same shared hosting account that contains my business website and several other personal projects - if he is a professional programmer at all, he may very well be doing the same, thus his costs for the website and forums are already a cost center that he's paying for. The only way the site would cost more than he's already paying in that regard is if he's getting a lot of traffic for the site, in which case moving to something like Amazon EC2 would level out his costs.

    WoW is a huge community, if he has even 10,000 subscribers then he is receiving $15,000 a month. Tellingly, you get access to bandwidth-intensive features after you have paid for a subscription - so he's covering his expenses per-user anyways.

    The author is being disingenuous about his costs, and any person involved in the various web development fields can see it's plainly obvious in his appeal to vox populi on the site. There are countless ways to monetize his site including non-intrusive advertising, putting extensive tutorials behind a paywall, merchandise, donations.. and so on. He chooses not to because the quickest and most lucrative is the subscription model, and Blizzard stomped on him as soon as he moved any of the addon's code behind a paywall - as they should. As ANY company will do, failing to act when people profit off your game establishes doubt if they ever try to take someone to court for it later, it's that simple.

    Blizzard should totally nail Zygor to the wall too, since they do the exact same thing. Actually, more blatantly than the TukUI author. Curse, however, does not put any of the actual addon code behind a paywall and thus is not conflicting with Blizzard's TOU.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by MalooTakant View Post
    A community website and forum are a service related to that add on. And charging for them is against blizzard policy plain and simple. Go read the policy before disagreeing with it.

    ---------- Post added 2011-05-01 at 07:30 AM ----------



    ummmm, no...
    ummmm, no...

    Is that all you're going to come up with? If you don't have a defense for something then just say you don't. Ummmm, no... just proves you don't have a vaild arguement so you're going to just deflect and come back with some nonsense made up crap.

  13. #253
    I must admit, it's fun when Aestu decides he's going to take part in a thread. He ignores everything to do with what is really going on, and just focuses on someone's opinion and tries to expand on it.

  14. #254
    The Patient BongimusPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aestu View Post
    My question is valid. And the point raised in the service of whiteknighting Blizzard to the effect that premium fees on Curse doesn't give addon related services in exchange for premium fees is invalid because on their site it says they do just that.



    ---------- Post added 2011-05-01 at 07:51 PM ----------



    Businesses have revenue streams.
    But Blizzard says he can't have one.
    Reasoning invalid.

    You didn't answer my question. Again. What's your angle here and why are you so interested in this one topic and nothing else?
    You have blown this so far out of proportion and in directions completely irrelevant to the point that it's becoming farcical. Now, you're relying on semantics and not taking even a second to absorb the point of the message.

    I have no angle. I chose to reply to this topic after reading through 9 pages worth of banter and decided "Hey, this is an interesting topic. I think I'll post." I'm sorry you're so offended by it. Are you used to getting your way without anyone taking a contrary position? Are you so desperate to be right that you need to resort to personalizing this?

    What I choose to do with my time on MMO-C is MY business, and my choice. Just as it's your choice to spend your time collecting digital mounts and wearing it like it's a badge to be proud of.

    As for the general point of all I've been saying, i simply cannot think of any way to make it more clear to you unless I come to your house and draw it out in crayon.

    ---------- Post added 2011-05-01 at 01:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aestu View Post
    The law says nothing one way or the other.

    Sending someone a legal threat then threatening to drive them into poverty with legal bills doesn't necessarily make whatever they're doing illegal in its own right.
    No such threat was made. Stop lying.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Aestu View Post
    The law says nothing one way or the other.

    Sending someone a legal threat then threatening to drive them into poverty with legal bills doesn't necessarily make whatever they're doing illegal in its own right.
    Legal in terms of Blizzard's ToS of course...

  16. #256
    I imagine the problem is that they charge for beta access. I donated to get beta access before Cata and they took my money and never gave me access to beta so I could have my UI ready on day one. As a result, I stopped using TukUI. Its a nice UI but the people in charge are real jerks.
    How to 'Fix' WoW
    1. Fire Chris Metzen
    2. Separate PVE and PVP and balance them separately
    3. ????
    4. Profit!

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Aestu View Post
    That is how the discovery of truth works. By comparing and analyzing each others' viewpoints. By expanding on the incomplete.
    Too bad it's really got nothing to do with the topic in hand. You're focusing on someone's opinion, instead of arguing the topic of this thread.

  18. #258
    Maybe I'm being a little insensitive here, but I've yet to see an actual Screenshot of Tukui and why it's so great. All I hear is how wonderful it is and I'm at a loss why anyone would pay money if they can't see the product they are buying. Even on the tukui website I've yet to see a screenshot.

  19. #259
    Stop out of topic conversation, or I'll show you my giant hammer.

    PS: The hammer is my penis.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Eec003 View Post
    exactly what the e-mail said, he's offering a premium version for $. It's illegal, simple as that.
    ^This.

    Was quite funny to read the "argument" between Aestu and the world. @Aestu: Your sig is off again, you are missing 1 mount according to your armory statistics.

    @BongimusPrime: Don't give into taunts from trolls, and even if he wasn't trolling I don't see him admitting being wrong.

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