Is there a skin thick enough for tanking?

[Badma]

Pull faster. if the dps are pulling for you, you're doing it too slow.

Your forum name is appropriate.

[shiryo]

When people ninjapulls in heroics and die beacuse I can't pick up the adds quick enough (warriors are a prime example with charge) I just call that justice.

When they die a few times they usually slows down and/or starts to bitch about it but I just put on my /care face and dont give a shit.
If they continue to die, well it's their repair cost.

[Deleted]

If you yank it, you tank it.

[Faemn]

dps sit in queue for 20min... of course they want to go quickly, stop wasting their time because you want to treat trash like it is difficult.

So if a tank goes too fast, he gets hated on, if he goes to slow, he gets hated on. I think DPS and Healers should just go at the speed that tank can handle or just drop group if they are not confortable with it, tanks have no problem queueing again if necessary, suck it up and play.

[gamhacked]

Yes, a tank with a skin thick enough is simply a good tank. If you're slower than the DPS, you're worse than the DPS. Keep practicing.

[Deleted]

Your forum name is appropriate.

I'd say so is yours if you disagree. but I don't want to start a heated discussion.

I'm just stating the obvious.

[MitchMeister-]

Just decided to roll a pally tank for giggles and decided I really liked it. Haven't leveled a tank since vanilla, so I guess I was surprised by how many people (dps) decided to pull instances for themselves. Pretty much I let them do it once or twice before I say something along the lines of "You pull, you tank". Most of the time this will stop them. Most healers will whisper me and say "tell me who's pulling and I'll stop healing them". Then either they die repeatedly and stop, or leave the instance. I don't pull slowly, but I have no inclination to go faster just because you "think" it's not quick enough for you...

[moowindd]

Lots of interesting answers. I guess I missed mentioning one thing. I am rather new with warrior tanking. So me beeing "slow" was due to the new warrior tanking experience. I should also add that I didn't even get a chance to pull a mob before a dps did that. It wasn't like I was sitting around and waiting for something.

What I am trying to understand is how ppl expect new tanks to learn things if they don't get a chance to evaluate and do things at their own pace. Why must it always be at super-speed?

Even if I was super-fast with the pull I only mananged to get rend off, but before I hit thunder-clap to spread the "threat", dps were already AOE-ing. Next pack I thought I'd get a cleave in first before anything so I can have perhaps a GCD or two after that to do some AOE aggro. Wasn't enough that either. I guess I have a wrong image of what a tank should do, and I am having a hard time letting ppl pull aggro left and right without doing anything. Usually means I run around trying to grab things and use taunt on cooldown.

What gets to me though, is that if dps gave me 5 seconds for initial aggro and mob placement, things would be a breeze for everyone. But these days 5 seconds seems to be an eternity for most ppl.

[Deleted]

there is nothing more annoying than having someone ninjapull.
you will have an extremely hard time getting aggro and if you're a rage-tank you will not get any rage at all, meaning no threat.

all in all it is just annoying and unnecessary.

[Jacinda]

I don't get it, if dps have time to pull mobs ahead of you it only means you're pulling too slow, step up the speed and problem solved?

Everything below lvl 85 heroics is an aoe grind fest, the only job you have as a tank is to make sure your group gets through them as soon as possible, that means pulling as many mobs as you can tank and keep aggro on, when they're almost dead you pull the next pack and so on. Do not EVER stop unless your healer specifically tells you that he needs a mana break (good healers won't need breaks but bad healers will).

A lof of tanks in lowbie instances have far too little speed on, you want to keep the dps occupied at all times, that means no one has time to whine and the dungeon gets done fast = everyone's happy.

Even if everything below level 85 heroics are an AoE grind fest I would prefer a tank that pulls at his own pace then DPS pulling and then moaning that the tank should have taken the aggro. Have you ever considered the fact that pre level 85 heroics are a good place to help people learn the instance and what mobs do in those instances? Let them learn the lay-out and the mobs in normal. Let people learn/ get to know what to do in ertain situations. This will save some time in heroics. People who learn bad habits in normal will still have them in heroics.

Everyone plays on their own pace. Not everyone is a SuperFastEliteTank, everyone had to learn sometime. And if the DPS thinks the tank goes too slow, then go with your SuperFastZergGuild and get out of the LFG. If you need to use the LFG for whatever reason, then please consider the fact that you play with other people. Being polite and taking the time now and then to talk and explain things will make the run so much more enjoyable.

ps. A healer going oom in normal doesn't mean s/he is a bad healer. It could have different causes. So please don't generalise so much.

[elpadrino293]

So if a tank goes too fast, he gets hated on, if he goes to slow, he gets hated on. I think DPS and Healers should just go at the speed that tank can handle or just drop group if they are not confortable with it, tanks have no problem queueing again if necessary, suck it up and play.

who in their right mind would hate on a tank for pulling quickly?

[iceberg265]

Why is it the tank's job to keep the DPS occupied/entertained? You make DPS sound like mentally handicapped children that can't be allowed a single moment of downtime lest they start eating paste and paint chips.

Are you saying they aren't? Obviously not every single one, but most sure seem to be.

[Shadowtrans]

Hi I've got two simple questions.

The first one is in the thread title, the second one is simple. Why, why oh why do dps feel the need to ninja-pull mobs?!?! I don't care how imba, leet or whatever word you use to describe your 'epeen', you are, if you are queued as a dps, please let the tank do the pulling. Doesn't matter if you Trick or MD on me as tank. If I want that I'll let you know.

I did a LFD run last night on my warrior tank(lvl 72). Sure its "old" content and whatnot, but not all in the group are gogogogo crazy people.
I got this dps who after ninja-pulling the first 3-4 packs of mobs, AFTER I tell ppl to let me pull so I can get initial aggro, starts a rant on how ppl can be so bad at playing this game so slow. I mean if you want to kill things quickly and alone, just skip the LFD and go grind some mobs.

Now some may say, get a guild. Well, how about those crazy speedy ninja pulling dps'ers get a guild too and do some crazy fast dungeons with their friends instead of bashing ppl in LFD?

I'll take the 30 minute LFD lock anyday than listening to kids rage. Which leads me back to my thread title. I got a pally, dk and druid tank in the range 83-85. I've tanked up to LK in wrath so I consider myself to have quite a thick skin. But I am currently starting to think that there isn't a skin thick enough out there. Do you?

If the DPS has time to pull for you, you are doing something wrong. If a guy also had time to tell you that you are bad since you pull slow, you are bad. I do one random or so a month if I'm bored just to remember how bad people like you are. I alway have a good laugh.

TL;DR - Stop being bad and do your job (chain pull, keep aggro and survive).

[Deleted]

When I tank my damage dealers have no time to pull ahead of me. If someone does I'm grateful because my ranged skills are all on CD.

Read the general feeling of the group, do they want to go faster or slower - adapt to their desires. Period.

[Jacinda]

dps sit in queue for 20min... of course they want to go quickly, stop wasting their time because you want to treat trash like it is difficult.

Long queue time does not equal having the right to be a tool. It's a group effort and everyone in the group needs to help eachother. Not going fast enough for you, by all means leave the group and go find yourself a faster group. Or you could be helpfull and do what you can to provide a smooth run. And no, ninja pulling or running in front of the tank to pull stuff "to make it go faster" is not being helpfull.

[Shadowtrans]

Lots of interesting answers. I guess I missed mentioning one thing. I am rather new with warrior tanking. So me beeing "slow" was due to the new warrior tanking experience. I should also add that I didn't even get a chance to pull a mob before a dps did that. It wasn't like I was sitting around and waiting for something.

What I am trying to understand is how ppl expect new tanks to learn things if they don't get a chance to evaluate and do things at their own pace. Why must it always be at super-speed?

Even if I was super-fast with the pull I only mananged to get rend off, but before I hit thunder-clap to spread the "threat", dps were already AOE-ing. Next pack I thought I'd get a cleave in first before anything so I can have perhaps a GCD or two after that to do some AOE aggro. Wasn't enough that either. I guess I have a wrong image of what a tank should do, and I am having a hard time letting ppl pull aggro left and right without doing anything. Usually means I run around trying to grab things and use taunt on cooldown.

What gets to me though, is that if dps gave me 5 seconds for initial aggro and mob placement, things would be a breeze for everyone. But these days 5 seconds seems to be an eternity for most ppl.

You are level 72. My first experience with a warrior tank, ever, was at level 60. Every run I did until level 74 had everyone thank me for how fast I'm pulling, how many mobs and that I use CD's. You can't be new and suck. You suck if you lack understanding of easy mechanics a.k.a you are stupid.

[Deleted]

I sometimes wait a few seconds before each pull if I have cooldowns nearly finished (DnD, swipe/thrash, shockwave/thunderclap depending on which char im playing) and I frequently get people pulling before I'm ready. I ask, explain why I'm waiting, tell them it is only max 5 seconds - it's still too long for some. As usual with these pulls, the dps start, my AoE is on cooldown or I've got no rage and the pull is a mess because the dps is unloading all they've got and running around like headless chickens. Usually after the "slow tank" abuse, you get the "noob tank can't hold aggro" abuse.

I even get abuse for pausing in the cata dungeons to mark and explain the pull. I keep a close eye on healers and dps meters while I'm tanking, and I can tell when CC is needed to make things easier (or even possible). I'll explain calmly three times, and depending on the replies will kick the offender or leave the group if there are more than one.

I'm confident that I know what I'm doing, and I'm polite enough not to be an arse back to people. If I've done something wrong, I'll own up and say it, if I know it's not my fault I try to not let it bother me. It's the best you can do.

[bumrush]

It is the tank's job to set the pace, based on his own comfort level, as well as gauging the healer's capacity for chain pulling. DPS do not have the right to. I play a DPS mostly because I found tanking wasn't for me (tanked all heroics in icc but LK). If you have some dumb kid ninja pulling, let him die a few times. He will slow down. If he doesn't slow down, kick him. If he is there with guildies and you get kicked..... well you are a tank, queue again. I would rather let a tank pull at a comfortable pace for him rather then have him go outside of his comfort level and fail because he was overwhelmed. As you get more familiar with your class you will naturally start pulling faster and this problem will cease.

[elpadrino293]

People who learn bad habits in normal will still have them in heroics.

Not everyone is a SuperFastEliteTank

pulling slowly, holding up the group, is a bad habit. you just defined elite tanks as super fast, dont play like a newb and people wont yell at you. you want a 5 second lead to build aggro? beat the dps to the mob by 5 seconds, use your vigilance if you have problems holding aggro, use your shockwave, every other skill you have in your arsenal. if a dps were not dpsing, as you tanks claim to be not tanking, you'd kick them with no hesitation. it's your own fault, stop blaming others for your inability to fulfill the role you queued for.

[Bruxby]

ya it can be pretty annoying, the other thing that bothers me is dps not giving enough time to the tank to establish aggro, especially leving up my bear tank and dps with heirlooms pulling aggro, it can get pretty frustrating