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  1. #1
    Deleted

    Buying a new computer, noticing my knowledge is severely outdated

    ------------------------Editted----------------
    Quite a lot of people have helped me out and all my previous questions have been answered (once more, thanks!), however i have 2 new ones:
    Based on a number of "best buy list" 2 different mobo's came up:
    1) MSI P67A-GD55
    2) Asrock P67 Pro3 (B3)
    The second one is ~20 euro cheaper, and has been given a comment of "less good" - What are the differences between mobo's in general (i always thought: if you can plug all the components you have on, they're good), and these in specific?
    I just recieved notice of an unexpected 100 euro comming in - so i do have the cash for the "upgrade", worth it?

    And: My friend didn't have a spare power supply after all - so i'll have to be getting one myself.
    To sum up the build im likely going for:
    cpu: i5:2500k
    gpu: MSI GTX560 Twin Frozr II
    mobo: one of the above
    Ram: 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3-1333 Corsair CL9
    HDD: 7200 RPM sata
    and a regular DVD drive + 2-4 case fans.

    What kind of Wattage should i be getting to safely run this? Also: i might want to OC the cpu/gpu later, or add a SSD if they cheapen up a bit - i dont want the power supply to cap that too quickly. What kind of brands should i be looking it for an affordable but decent power supply?

    ----------------END OF EDIT-----


    Ok so, before anything else - yes i registered here, and my first post is one full of questions - I've been a long time reader off pretty much everything on the sites and forums, but never bothered to make an account. I do feel bad about it, but i don't really have any other place to go...

    So here's the issue: about 9 years ago, i bought a pc (from family who were always up to date, basicly i got a 6month old system for dirtcheap)... Then when that thing was totally worth shit (about 4.5 years later), and i went to college, i bought a laptop trough university (pretty good deal for the cash). Now we're another 4.5 years later and it really is time to finally invest in a new computer.
    The problem is though, in those 9 years since i last bought a pc - a lot of stuff has changed and i'm completely lost in what is good, or bad, and what is good value for money.

    I still have a HDD (400gig sata) that i purchased as an external hdd to my laptop - so i dont need that
    I still have a DVD drive that works (believe it or not, my 9 year old rig has one)
    I am ok with using the case of my old pc - its a huge ass hightower, so i think that should be ok.
    I have a mouse, a keyboard, and am getting a decent screen from a friend, who just upgraded his, for 25 euros.
    Furthermore, it seems like i will be able to get a power supply from a friend.

    SO: i have approximately 500 euros for a budget, and afaik, for that money i need:
    ~A motherboard
    ~A processor
    ~A graphics card
    ~RAM
    That should be everything, right?

    Like i said, i'm completely lost in what is good or bad, and what fits and what does not.
    I've seen motherboards come with different "sockets" and all the technical blah blah that i'm totally confused about, what are the things that matter?.
    The graphics cards - i simply dont have a clue what is good or bad, and what is good value for money.
    RAM - well i know i "need" DDR3 - and with my budget i'm probably looking at getting 4gigs - but theres also speeds on them it seems, do they matter much - What on earth is the difference between 4gigs costing 35 euro, and another set costing 80 euro?

    Then there's one more issue i'm thinking about: i'm also considering getting parts second hand. I'm dutch and we have stuff like tweakers.nl that have a pretty decent second hand market it seems. Would doing that get me a decent performance boost in the system? or a significantly lower price for the same stuff? Is buying second hand a good idea at all - and maybe more so for some parts then others?

    To sum it up: I have 500 euro to get the parts of a computer i need - will that number get me anywhere? - What should i be looking at/for when buying the parts? - Is buying second hand parts a decent idea (and is that so for all parts?)?

    Thanks so much for reading trough all that - and if you are going to leave a reply with some helpful comments thanks even more, i really do appreciate it.
    ~bruzag
    Last edited by mmoc2aa9b61c24; 2011-05-05 at 07:12 PM. Reason: narrowing down questions/issues based on replies

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth1 View Post
    Thanks for pointing me in that direction, i had already read that however.
    It does give some sweet-spot builds, but especially considering the fact that i might buy stuff second hand getting "hey, this card works in this setup" is rather slim information.
    Furthermore: the $700 build is gonna be way under budget, the $1000 might be signifcantly above.

    Looking at them (again) did raise a question for me, though:
    There's CPU coolers on that list aswell - i did not include it in my post as i had read somewhere that CPU's come with a CPU cooler, is that true? Are they that shit that you should always buy an extra one, or is getting that extra one intended for overclocking the system without much issues?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by bruzag View Post
    Thanks for pointing me in that direction, i had already read that however.
    It does give some sweet-spot builds, but especially considering the fact that i might buy stuff second hand getting "hey, this card works in this setup" is rather slim information.
    Furthermore: the $700 build is gonna be way under budget, the $1000 might be signifcantly above.

    Looking at them (again) did raise a question for me, though:
    There's CPU coolers on that list aswell - i did not include it in my post as i had read somewhere that CPU's come with a CPU cooler, is that true? Are they that shit that you should always buy an extra one, or is getting that extra one intended for overclocking the system without much issues?
    as far as cpu coolers go, gone are the days when the athlon thunderbird could just have a heats spreader and no fan on it and chug along. almost all cpus will come with a stock cooler that will do fine for the average user but if you game a lot and have a hot gfx card and a cramped casethen you may have a temperature issue that requires better cooling solutions, as well as for overclocking.

    for your budget, i wouldn't include a cpu cooler as a dire need, but rather something to be addressed later.

    also for you 700ish dollar build are you looking for a computer with all the bells and whistles (ssd hard drive, cool looking case, spiffy mouse and keyboard, led fans) or just something that works well, and could be added on to later?

  5. #5
    Deleted
    also for you 700ish dollar build are you looking for a computer with all the bells and whistles (ssd hard drive, cool looking case, spiffy mouse and keyboard, led fans) or just something that works well, and could be added on to later?
    Thanks for the info on the CPU cooler.

    Like posted in my first post: I have a hard drive, i have a case, and a mouse and keyboard - sure none of them are fancy - but they dont really add to what the computer is supposed to do in the end

    I might be looking for an SSD later in time if they cheapen up a bit - but the goal for what i want to get now is just that it deals with games as good as possible for the money i have.
    Basically: Performance once loaded > everything else

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by bruzag View Post

    Looking at them (again) did raise a question for me, though:
    There's CPU coolers on that list aswell - i did not include it in my post as i had read somewhere that CPU's come with a CPU cooler, is that true? Are they that shit that you should always buy an extra one, or is getting that extra one intended for overclocking the system without much issues?
    Yes, but they are both loud, and not as efficient as the ones on that list. It's a worthy upgrade to get a decent cooler, your ears and your processor will thank you for it.


    One of the better rated, cheaper coolers in the Gelid Tranquillo http://www.scan.co.uk/products/gelid...oogle+shopping at only £23 it's a bargin.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by bruzag View Post
    Thanks for the info on the CPU cooler.

    Like posted in my first post: I have a hard drive, i have a case, and a mouse and keyboard - sure none of them are fancy - but they dont really add to what the computer is supposed to do in the end

    I might be looking for an SSD later in time if they cheapen up a bit - but the goal for what i want to get now is just that it deals with games as good as possible for the money i have.
    Basically: Performance once loaded > everything else
    good to know =]

    just a place to start

    cpu & motherboard- http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.638732 $273
    GFX-http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121437&cm_re=6950-_-14-121-437-_-Product $269
    Ram-http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231422 $80
    PSU-http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139021 $104

    total 766$


    theres a respectable starting point for your system, some may be able to fine tune it more.

    my 2 cents worth, buying ram online is a bit tricky, some brands dont have good track records with DOA's, GSKILL is one of the better companies w/ quality control in my experience, so a lower cost ram from them is fine in my book. Also, never skimp on your power supply, just something my dad used to tell me all the time and it has never caused me any problem. Its a corsair psu, beacuse well, i like corsair psu's =]

    if you want to drop some extra money, make the cpu a 2500K, otherwise just put in an SSD and start putting in bells and whistles. But thats just my opinion.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrena View Post
    Yes, but they are both loud, and not as efficient as the ones on that list. It's a worthy upgrade to get a decent cooler, your ears and your processor will thank you for it.


    One of the better rated, cheaper coolers in the Gelid Tranquillo http://www.scan.co.uk/products/gelid...oogle+shopping at only £23 it's a bargin.
    Thanks a lot for your thoughts, i'll look into it

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Thanks for comming up with that list, its good to have a start to know what your up against.
    I see you've put 8 gigs of ram in - considering i am on a strict budget (and prices in EU > those in US) is that something that will give me significant improvement in performance? or am i better off taking 4gigs and throwing the money towards (e.g.) a 2500k CPU?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bruzag View Post
    Thanks for comming up with that list, its good to have a start to know what your up against.
    I see you've put 8 gigs of ram in - considering i am on a strict budget (and prices in EU > those in US) is that something that will give me significant improvement in performance? or am i better off taking 4gigs and throwing the money towards (e.g.) a 2500k CPU?
    sorry forgot that you were in the EU, not 8 gig is not going to make or break your system. 4 gig should be quite enough,( i jsut always try to over shoot the mark on ram just so i dont have to deal with buying more of it a year from now to support some fancy new game that i want). In that case, buy 2 x 2gb sticks, that way if one ever goes bad, you arent completely shut down =]
    Last edited by bryanmathis; 2011-05-04 at 01:55 PM.

  11. #11
    Deleted
    Thanks once again - another thing i was wondering, theres ram costing ~33 euros for 2x2gig, but also sets that cost ~80 for 2x2gig (the fairly cool named "Hyper X" from kingston) - It's "just" RAM - is there really that much of a noticable difference people would pay 50 euros for?

  12. #12

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Odd, I've got Kingstom Hyper-X and that cost met 22 euro's for 2gb (DDR2-666) back then. Kingston never really was the expensive one, G.E.I.L. is. I think, considering your budget, its better to spend the extra 100 euro's on a better CPU/GPU. 4gb is fine, I'm on 6 personally, but 8 is overkill. You won't fill that up, ever.

    And do make sure your case is large enough, because the huge-ass tower that was my pentium 2 case would now be extremely cramped. Video cards have grown quite a bit, and a CPU cooler can take up a lot of space.
    I don't know where you are from, but if you are Dutch: http://tweakers.net/reviews/2112/twe...-mei-2011.html

  14. #14
    Deleted
    thanks for the suggestions nab, will look at them

    and @ hybr1d, i am idd dutch - gonna read that stuff up

  15. #15
    When you say you've got an external HDD it makes me concerned. Typically external Hard Drives are meant for storage, not for everyday use. I found that out the hard way when I destroyed my old external HDD because it was where I stored all my media and my NES/SNES emulators and ROMs. After only about a year the drive freaked out on me and just started making weird buzzing noises when I tried to turn it on.

    If you have an external HDD you probably want to find an internal one for your computer or you will most likely end up burning it out very quickly. They definitely are not made for running all the software on your computer.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by tibben View Post
    When you say you've got an external HDD it makes me concerned. Typically external Hard Drives are meant for storage, not for everyday use. I found that out the hard way when I destroyed my old external HDD because it was where I stored all my media and my NES/SNES emulators and ROMs. After only about a year the drive freaked out on me and just started making weird buzzing noises when I tried to turn it on.

    If you have an external HDD you probably want to find an internal one for your computer or you will most likely end up burning it out very quickly. They definitely are not made for running all the software on your computer.
    thanks for raising the point but... The one i have has a "normal" hdd inside, its:
    http://www.afterdawn.com/products/pr...360#selitykset
    That one.
    I don't see any reason why this would break down any quicker then whatever hdd you would buy for your pc :x

  17. #17
    Since you are in the netherlands I made a small list for you on tweakers.net that perfectly fits your budget: http://tweakers.net/gallery/184325?w...#tab:wenslijst
    The total price is €499.88 without shipping costs at the cheapest stores. The cheapest store with all products is Afuture for €526.65 including shipping costs. But you can get it all for €516.40 including shipping if you buy stuff from multiple stores.

    For those that's can't read dutch:
    CPU: Intel i5 2500k
    GPU: Gigabyte GV-N470OC-13I (GTX470) (not available anymore on newegg so don't try looking for it)
    Motherboard: MSI P67A-GD55
    RAM: Corsair XMS3 TW3X4G1333C9 (2x2GB)
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  18. #18
    Deleted
    Noticed the mobo you selected is 20 euro more expensive, and the graphics card 20 less expensive then those in the best buy (http://tweakers.net/reviews/2112/3/t...mesysteem.html) linked before.
    I'm thinking the more expensive graphics card is probably gonna get better results - any reason you choose this mobo over the other?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruzag View Post
    ------------------------Editted----------------
    Quite a lot of people have helped me out, and the number of remaning questions has reduced greatly to:
    1) Is buying second hand parts for a pc a good idea or not - Any specific parts for which it is more/less suited?
    2) I have a HDD that was initially in a housing, and used as external hdd (see somewhere below for a link) - is there any reason why this would break down faster then a "normal" hdd? - tibben suggested this in his post
    3) If you are not overclocking - and have a case with plenty of room, will the stock CPU cooler suffice?
    ----------------END OF EDIT-----
    1)
    The problem with second-hand parts is always: you don't know how they have been treated before. For items with no moving parts, where you can see the condition with your eyes, that's not really a problem (Case, RAM, CPU, ...). But i would stay clear of things like DVD recorder and HDDs. Even if such parts may look fine and work for the moment, you never know, if an HDD has been dropped previously or if a fan has some ongoing problem with it's bearing.

    2)
    An HDD is an HDD, no matter the casing. So generally speaking, it should work as any other normal internal HDD.
    BUT an external HDD is subjected to a lot more physical stress and as such it actually can break down faster, due to a late reaction to earlier miss-handling. If it was only a backup storage you used inside your house, then no worries, but if you carried it around a good deal, then i would not trust it to hold my primary data in a pc.

    3)
    The stock coolers per se are "sufficient". In a case with enough room and ventilation, they should do their job.
    There are some factors though, that should be minded:
    a) AMDs 4/6-core cpus dissipate a lot of heat (>100W under stress) and personally i wouldn't want to cool that with the tiny stock heatsink. Even if not under stress, they are audible already, and get very loud when under full load.
    b) Intel's stock heatsinks, while tiny, work surprisingly well. Even with a quad core i5 under full load, they stay in a bearable noise range.
    c) Your internal case temperatures should not exceed 40°C, or you will get problems with cooling (not only CPU, but other things like video card and some parts on the motherboard.
    All in all, i would not use a stock heatsink for any cpu that has a TDP higher than 100W. Anything below that should work well.
    Why do something simple, when there is a complicated way?
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  20. #20
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Biernot View Post
    1)

    3)
    The stock coolers per se are "sufficient". In a case with enough room and ventilation, they should do their job.
    There are some factors though, that should be minded:
    a) AMDs 4/6-core cpus dissipate a lot of heat (>100W under stress) and personally i wouldn't want to cool that with the tiny stock heatsink. Even if not under stress, they are audible already, and get very loud when under full load.
    b) Intel's stock heatsinks, while tiny, work surprisingly well. Even with a quad core i5 under full load, they stay in a bearable noise range.
    c) Your internal case temperatures should not exceed 40°C, or you will get problems with cooling (not only CPU, but other things like video card and some parts on the motherboard.
    All in all, i would not use a stock heatsink for any cpu that has a TDP higher than 100W. Anything below that should work well.
    I have a phenom II x4 955, I was thinking of overclocking it a bit so I ran prime95 to stress test it to find out how high the temps are hitting at stock condition, long story short with stock cooler I hit 64 degrees, while the amd specified max allowed is 62 degrees.... Installed an (old) after market cooler and the temps dropped by over 10 degrees, iddle and under load.

    So what I'm saying is stay away from reference coolers if you can avoid it, especially with amd.

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