Are Cataclysm Heroics now easier than the ones in Wrath?

[Surfd]

try to do a ZA or ZG in a grp where everyone has a 346ilvl which is the requirement, and you will do nothing but fail, now go do Hall of Origination or Reflection( i dont really remember the name too many halls out there, the last dungeon of Wotlk) and you will do it easily with a 200ilvl. People will always like to exaggerate, but cata dungeons are harder than wotlk dungeons in every aspect, starting with DONT STAND IN THE FIRE...

Try to do a ZG / ZA group with people in full 359 who were carried to their epics and you will also do nothing but fail. Bad people in 359 gear wont out perform bad people in 346 gear.

I have done a number of ZG and ZA runs with people in an average of 346-349 gear, and the runs went quite fine. If people know the fights, and dont suck at their class, the Zandalari heroics are no harder then any other heroics, and are quite doable at the minimum entry gear level.

The only overtuned boss out of all of them is Venoxis (now that they fixed the Eagle boss in ZA to not be punnishingly hard on mele heavy groups).

[MAGAmobile]

I think everyone forgets that we were doing wotlk heroics in heroic ICC gear in the end and the only fun part of doing them was popping bloodlust to see how fast you could burn down a boss.

People did that in blues and sunwell gear for Wrath 5 mans. None of them were hard in any way.

[yjmark]

Yep, thats exactly what I was going for. In both cases you've got only one raid tier available to overgear them with. Granted it was easier to get Naxx epics than Tier 11 stuff, but its the closest comparison.[COLOR="red"]

Personally, I think the Cat heroic 5-mans are harder than the WotLK heroic 5-mans if you compare them at the same time frame. They are much less forgiving. Most screw ups = death in Cat. In WotLK, you'd have to screw up a few times to die.

[Daedius]

Wotlk tanks could EASILY chain pull, with healers healing them well enough...

Trying that now, it's a different story.

So, no - Cata isn't 'easier', or is the same as, than Wotlk.

[GUESSWHOIAM]

seriously, how the fuck can people still make such a poll...? isn't it obvious that cataclysm heroics are kinda harder than wotlk's heroics?

inb4 "lol superduper easy^^^^wnbelitist"

i roll on cataclysm heroics whenever i want.

[Deleted]

You could tunnel vision the wotlk ones and you can't really do that with cata ones as youll end up dead if you don't.. No matter how much your gear improve youll still die on certain bosses if you don't follow the required tactics.

[Sarevokcz]

if by Cata heroics, you mean pre 4.1 heroics, well... To be honest, they actually got harder. Not from mechanics PoV, but from group composition.
Before 4.1, you usually had atleast 1-2 raid geared people after valors, who boosted the rest of the group through the dungeon and balanced the infamous 4k dpsers. Now, those players are queuing for ZA/ZG for bigger valor gain/potential missing pieces for gear and all you have in regular HCs are those 4k dpsers, just dinged 85s with pvp gear in bags and only rarely anyone with good enough gear to compensate for "bads."

I figured I could tank again on one of my alts for satchels and sunce my tanking gear wasnt quite on par with troll HCs, even tho my dps gear would allow me to enter easily, I went with normal HCs. Worst mistake ever. druid healer with over 50% healing done by healing touch, two meleers who probably never saw an interrupt in their lifetime, couldnt not stand in void zones/whatever... atleast if they did decent damage, but no, I was with my pathetic 9k tank dps first in dps AND damage done... Yeah, those heroics were quite difficult

[Nos]

*blinks* Who are the terribad trolls who said that wotlk heroics were much harder >_>?

[Deleted]

You could tunnel vision the wotlk ones and you can't really do that with cata ones as youll end up dead if you don't.. No matter how much your gear improve youll still die on certain bosses if you don't follow the required tactics.

Yeah that seems to be the common consensus, and its one of the best things about Cata heroics. And as other posters said, the trash still hits hard enough that the healers aren't able to alt-tab or spend most of the run dpsing. Another thing I've noticed is that standing in whirlwinds and voidzones is much more likely to actually kill people. And healer mobs are much more potent, we didn't cc the double spiritmender pull at the start of Throne of the Tides and they spent nearly a minute crosshealing each other.

What prompted the poll for me was tanking a series of heroics without really encountering any major difficulties, certainly nothing close to a wipe. But I guess I took it for granted that nearly all the players I was with knew the boss tactics quite well and played sensibly. Like the hunter on first boss of Grim Batol. I ask him to "take care" of the purple add without even really explaining much and he just kept it trapped for the whole fight. Or the other hunter who hopped in the Prototype bot on Foe Reaper and got the no damage taken achievement.

[Arrowstormen]

No. WOTLK heroics were still easier.
Aaaand, you overgear them past 246ilevel. Just stick with it, its not like they SUPPOSED to be a challenge when you got 372ilevel.

[Deleted]

Cata ofc is harder just by dungeon difficulty. And its good. Overgearing doesnt change difficulty, it just makes you able to ignore part of fight mechanics.

ps. At the end of WotLK Oculus was 2nd shortest (~12 min on average) and most rewarding heroic dungeon, and still lots of people were leaving it right after entering.

[qbanb8582]

Minus Oculus pre nerf. Wrath heroics were easy, and when ur overgeared u can ignore just about every mechanic.

Even when you outgear cata heroics you can't ignore most of the mechanics.

[Deleted]

Cataclysm has improved upon Wrath in numerous ways, dungeons included, without getting half of the credit it deserves.

[DraconusIX]

Can any heroic really compare with the BC heroics? There was so many tough ones, with a few like shadow labs, arcatraz, crypts being quite difficult. Even lots of the mediocre ones like black morass, escape from durn, mana tombs, and MgT were often impossible in pugs. Yes some of the mechanics was how fast a tank could drop, but CC was almost required more because of shitty aoe threat from tanks then from the threat of the tank dieing.

Still, I think things are tuned easier now. I remember trash mobs could kill the healer in 2 blows (coilfang defenders for one...). Not that many RAID trash mobs now that hit that hard, let alone 5 man trash.

[Badma]

Cataclysm has improved upon Wrath in numerous ways, dungeons included, without getting half of the credit it deserves.

Absolutely agree with this. ^^

[Deleted]

They are definately harder now, ae tanking was a joke and bombing isn't exactly challenging.
I do smell trolls though, but can't put my finger on it.

Edit: @DraconusIX: ae threat wasnt that hard, it required the use of the tab key and maybe different bars though to manage

[Zka]

I remember chain pulling and aoe'ing everything in 3.0, not waiting until 3.2 to do so - at that point, you simply could do it to 3 packs at once, instead of just 1. You "overgeared" WotLK 5 mans in blues, not in raid epics like now.

This. (btw you could tank them in T8 dps gear)
And Cata heroics are still much much harder than LK ones. It mostly means that you can't pull half the instance at once and kill bosses in 15-20s while you watch TV.

[4KhazModan]

Minus Oculus pre nerf. Wrath heroics were easy, and when ur overgeared u can ignore just about every mechanic.

Even when you outgear cata heroics you can't ignore most of the mechanics.

Well, we have yet to outgear cata heroics to the extent that we did in 3.3. But ya, the only wrath stuff that was ever hard, even at correct gear level was H UP, and H HoL. Everything else was just as faceroll.

[Deleted]

I've been doing Wrath heroics on my alt with no special gear and I can safely say that I need to focus a lot more when healing Cataclysm heroics on my main than Wrath heroics on my alt. And even during my first times in a heroic during Wrath of the Lich King I felt they were a piece of cake compared to Cataclysm heroics. Even though I'm starting to out gear the instances these days, people still die if the tank DCs. I could often keep people up if the tank died in a Wrath heroic until the trash pack was done with and the tank logged back on.

[Deleted]

Well, we have yet to outgear cata heroics to the extent that we did in 3.3. But ya, the only wrath stuff that was ever hard, even at correct gear level was H UP, and H HoL. Everything else was just as faceroll.

I remember when we did Sladran in Gundrak early in Wrath, we'd either wipe or kill him with one or two people alive because no one really knew how to deal with the snakes and tried to burn the boss instead.